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Old 08-26-2012   #41
Honoring Earl 34
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Default Re: OL - color me concerned

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
That was the worst 4 minutes of football for the Texans offense .... both Butlet and Gardner allowed blow by's ... it reminded me of that comercial with HHWNBM lining up with no OL at all.

I was ready to cut the whole lot of them.


I thought Newton played pretty solid thruout the game. I wasnt very high on him coming into the season but he looks to be the better option.

Butler doesnt look like the same guy who filled in for Brown during his suspension.
Isn't LT more of a finesse position and RT more physical . I think that's the issue .
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Old 08-26-2012   #42
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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
I'm not sure I followed you KT.

The one Gardner gave up, the defender #90 put on an edge rush and straight out beat him on the outside.

Yates fumbled the ball when the defender pulled on his arm.
Smith came back to recover the ball.

This was on 2nd and 10 with 3:34 to go.
Makes sense, did not see the final four minutes. Thanks y'all, I am on the same page.
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Old 08-26-2012   #43
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Default Re: OL - color me concerned

Houston Texans at 3:38

1-10-HST 20 (3:38) (Shotgun) T.Yates pass incomplete short right to L.Brock (K.Anderson).

Both OTs did enough for Yates to get off the pass.
Yates was a hair late and behind the TE.
If he led the receiver, that would have been a catch

2-10-HST 20 (3:34) (Shotgun) T.Yates sacked at HST 11 for -9 yards (T.McBride). FUMBLES (T.McBride), recovered by HST-S.Smith at HST 11. S.Smith to HST 11 for no gain (M.Wilson).

This is where Gardner whiffed.

3-19-HST 11 (2:55) (Shotgun) T.Yates sacked at HST 9 for -2 yards (T.Walker).
This is where the 43 DT stunted around the edge.
Yates should have stepped up the pocket.
Both OTs were fine.
4-21-HST 9 (2:23) D.Jones punts 37 yards to HST 46, Center-J.Weeks. G.Camarillo ran ob at HST 38 for 8 yards (E.Pleasant).
..

Houston Texans at 1:55

1-10-HST 43 (1:55) (Shotgun) T.Yates pass short middle to J.Grimes to HST 49 for 6 yards (A.Daniels) [E.Mack]. Pass 2, YAC 4
Quick pass, nobody picked up the blitzer who put a hit on Yates just after he released the ball.
Both OTs did fine.

2-4-HST 49 (1:32) (Shotgun) T.Yates pass short middle to J.Grimes to NO 39 for 12 yards (B.Broughton). Pass 3, YAC 9 P20
Quick pass, no problem here.

1-10-NO 39 (1:12) (Shotgun) T.Yates pass incomplete short left to J.Grimes.
Both OTs were a bit weak, but they gave Yates just enough time (Garder needed help from Smith)..
Yates was a little late on the pass.

2-10-NO 39 (1:09) (Shotgun) T.Yates pass incomplete short left to J.Iglesias (N.Hixson).
No problem on protection here.
There was nobody open.

3-10-NO 39 (1:00) (Shotgun) T.Yates pass short left to J.Iglesias to NO 31 for 8 yards (C.Parks). Pass 5, YAC 3
No problem on protection here.

4-2-NO 31 (:37) (Shotgun) T.Yates pass incomplete short left to B.Johnson (E.Mack).
No problem on protection here.
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Old 08-26-2012   #44
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Default Re: OL - color me concerned

Ben Jones looked good at center filling in for Myers. Can you try him out RT or is that too much of a stretch?
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Old 08-26-2012   #45
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Default Re: OL - color me concerned

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Originally Posted by TexansBull View Post
Ben Jones looked good at center filling in for Myers. Can you try him out RT or is that too much of a stretch?
Too much of a stretch...
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Old 08-26-2012   #46
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Default Re: OL - color me concerned

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Originally Posted by wolf123 View Post
Too much of a stretch...
Unless you can stretch him .
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Old 08-26-2012   #47
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Default Re: OL - color me concerned

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Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34 View Post
Unless you can stretch him .
I've tried pulling on certain parts to see if they will stretch... Experiment at your own risk!
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Old 08-26-2012   #48
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Default Re: OL - color me concerned

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I've tried pulling on certain parts to see if they will stretch... Experiment at your own risk!
Wait ... what .... Thorn says to try less shampoo .
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Old 08-26-2012   #49
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Default Re: OL - color me concerned

I think a RT should be our number 1 pick next year but an ILB should not be very far away...the position just look awful too...a first round rookie along with Cushing should fix that.

Hopefully by then Newton got his dookies together.
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Old 08-26-2012   #50
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Default Re: OL - color me concerned

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Originally Posted by TexanCR View Post
I think a RT should be our number 1 pick next year ...
I'm not on board with a 1st round pick, but if you're going to spend a pick and develop from the draft, you have to come up with a better retention plan than just cut and pray. The Texans knew what Winston's contract was, but they didn't draft a replacement and they just cut him. Biggest mistake of the offseason, IMO. If you're going to build through the draft, you have to keep the guys you hit with or plan for their replacement.

Sorry, Butler was not a sound plan.
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Old 08-26-2012   #51
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Default Re: OL - color me concerned

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
I'm not on board with a 1st round pick, but if you're going to spend a pick and develop from the draft, you have to come up with a better retention plan than just cut and pray. The Texans knew what Winston's contract was, but they didn't draft a replacement and they just cut him. Biggest mistake of the offseason, IMO. If you're going to build through the draft, you have to keep the guys you hit with or plan for their replacement.

Sorry, Butler was not a sound plan.
I honestly do not understand this move either...as far as I know we are under the cap and we could have cover Winston contract under it, not to mention that we could had something for him (anything, even a 6th rounder although everybody says that he is worth at least a 4th rounder) if the FO really do not wanted him on the team.

Can somebody explain the move for me please?
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Old 08-26-2012   #52
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Default Re: OL - color me concerned

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Can somebody explain the move for me please?
Well, the answer is money, but as I pointed out above, they knew what the contract was long enough in advance to plan for it. Also, as Dutchrudder pointed out earlier int he year, the Chiefs could have actually saved some cap room if they would have traded for him from the Texans. Add to that the fact that Walter was offered the opportunity to take a pay cut, but when asked about that option with regard to Winston, the FO said something to the effect of they didn't want to disrespect Winston. So the root of it is most likely money, but there's a lot more to it, IMO.
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Old 08-26-2012   #53
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Default Re: OL - color me concerned

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
Well, the answer is money, but as I pointed out above, they knew what the contract was long enough in advance to plan for it. Also, as Dutchrudder pointed out earlier int he year, the Chiefs could have actually saved some cap room if they would have traded for him from the Texans. Add to that the fact that Walter was offered the opportunity to take a pay cut, but when asked about that option with regard to Winston, the FO said something to the effect of they didn't want to disrespect Winston. So the root of it is most likely money, but there's a lot more to it, IMO.
So they have no problem disrespecting Walter? lol

Anyway, lack of planning from the FO or maybe they though Buttler was better than he really is. Either way they really hurt this team with the move. Our running game is the bread and butter of our offense.
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Old 08-26-2012   #54
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Default Re: OL - color me concerned

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Originally Posted by TexanCR View Post
So they have no problem disrespecting Walter?
That's what I got out of it, heh.

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Anyway, lack of planning from the FO or maybe they though Buttler was better than he really is. Either way they really hurt this team with the move. Our running game is the bread and butter of our offense.
As I said repeatedly, if Butler was better than Winston, you'd either have him playing ahead of Winston or you'd have to question how good your coach is. You could argue that they thought they could develop him into a better tackle than Winston, but I honestly never saw anything that made me think that would be the case. But hey, I am just a fan.
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Old 08-26-2012   #55
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Default Re: OL - color me concerned

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Originally Posted by Cjeremy635 View Post
I said that the O-line concerned me after the first preseason game and I feel worse about it now. That right side better get their $hit together quick.
Yep, Schaub & company made it look ok, but it really wasn't.

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The 2nd team O Line looked like dog **** out there, TJ got eaten up.
It wasn't pretty. Unless "pretty scary" counts.

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
The 2nd team Oline was a "virtual Oline".........invisible to the D. But beyond that. Yates seemed to cease to demonstrate any awareness to his surroundings when things broke down.
Yep, it (sadly) reminded me of Carr out there. I'm a huge TJ fan, but that was UGLY.
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Old 08-26-2012   #56
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Default Re: OL - color me concerned

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To be fair the Saints were blitzing in the 2nd half and Yates didn't do a very good job of recognizing the packages and the RB's made some HORRIBLE decisions also. Sacks are not necessarily the fault of the OL solely.

I'm more concerned with the run defense than the run offense.

The blitz pickups didnt have a thing to do with both Gardner and Butler getting beaten one on one. They just got beat plain and simple.

Yeah , the RB missed a blitz pickup one one of the sacks , was caught looking inside when the blitz came between the guard and tackle on the right side. Yates had no chance on that play.

On the play Yates was stripped , Gardner was flat out beaten then allowed the DE back playside on him for the strip.


I almost wonder if Butler is injured , he looks nothing like the guy who filled in for Brown during his suspension or as 34 noted earlier in this thread , maybe its the switch to the right side.

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Originally Posted by Cjeremy635 View Post
I said that the O-line concerned me after the first preseason game and I feel worse about it now. That right side better get their $hit together quick.

They were much better with Newton than Butler .... I thought he played pretty well overall.
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Old 08-26-2012   #57
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Default Re: OL - color me concerned

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
The blitz pickups didnt have a thing to do with both Gardner and Butler getting beaten one on one. They just got beat plain and simple.

Yeah , the RB missed a blitz pickup one one of the sacks , was caught looking inside when the blitz came between the guard and tackle on the right side. Yates had no chance on that play.

On the play Yates was stripped , Gardner was flat out beaten then allowed the DE back playside on him for the strip.


I almost wonder if Butler is injured , he looks nothing like the guy who filled in for Brown during his suspension or as 34 noted earlier in this thread , maybe its the switch to the right side.




They were much better with Newton than Butler .... I thought he played pretty well overall.
No doubt. I think that's the way Kubiak is thinking as well. He all but named Newton as the starter today in his presser I thought.
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Old 08-26-2012   #58
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Default Re: OL - color me concerned

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
I'm not on board with a 1st round pick, but if you're going to spend a pick and develop from the draft, you have to come up with a better retention plan than just cut and pray. The Texans knew what Winston's contract was, but they didn't draft a replacement and they just cut him. Biggest mistake of the offseason, IMO. If you're going to build through the draft, you have to keep the guys you hit with or plan for their replacement.

Sorry, Butler was not a sound plan.
I've said this before. I don't think Butler was ever really intended to take Winston's place. He was given the opportunity because he's the vet swing tackle with the seniority.

But the reason Winston was seen as expendable was because of Newton.

In other words, they DID draft Winston's replacement. But they did it last year and didn't expect the guy to come in as a rookie and take over. They planned this out and so far, it seems to have worked out.

Butler goes back to the swing tackle.
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Old 08-26-2012   #59
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Default Re: OL - color me concerned

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So they have no problem disrespecting Walter? lol

Anyway, lack of planning from the FO or maybe they though Buttler was better than he really is. Either way they really hurt this team with the move. Our running game is the bread and butter of our offense.
No. None of the above.

Our FO drafted Winston's replacement last year: Derek Newton. They gave Butler the chance to win the spot but they expected Newton to fill that position.
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Old 08-26-2012   #60
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The one thing Newton isn't really doing as well as Winston did is the out-in-space road grading block.

Screen play, RB pass routes out into the flats, the stuff where the line pulls way out and finds targets to raze. Newton is struggling to find the guy and then engage and level him.

I like Newton's ability to stay home and swallow up the lineman at the LOS, but he's gotta learn how to motor out into space and just find a body to latch onto and drill the guy into the turf. Winston was good at that.
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