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Old 05-27-2005   #41
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It never fails. Each year a player(s) exceeds expecations. The Texans OL can be surprising. I am not going going to count them out before training camp starts. I would have to geuss that the OL has dedicated themselves to improving. As a faithful fan, I will support them until proven otherwise. This is a new year.

As for Shelton, lazy is the easiest thing to fix. If I were on a team with a losing record and no hope in sight, then I would be less motivated. What if we signed him and he rededicated himself to the game? He might just be a steal at this point. I also like Shelton, because he brings years of experience at the position. BTW if he is so bad, then how did he start for so long? I just think his attitude went sour on a sour team. He must have gotten tired of the QB carousel. That might be a huge attraction for him coming to Houston. Protecting the same guy each week has got to make it easier on the OL. Well I see him as a potential starting LT if we sign him. If he does not pan out then we draft our franchise LT.

I don't think Bob McNair is going to watch Carr get pounded week after week this year. Maybe they will use 6 OL this year and eliminate the TE position. Its not like they use a TE for pass catching anymore.
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Old 05-27-2005   #42
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Originally Posted by rittenhouserobz
Maybe they will use 6 OL this year and eliminate the TE position. Its not like they use a TE for pass catching anymore.
Why stop there ? We could regress all the way back to a single-wing, that
way we could put a couple more OL in the backfield as blocking backs. Nah,
we gotta be a little more sophisticated than what you suggest, use a little more imagination.
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Old 05-27-2005   #43
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Old 05-27-2005   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
...I've been posting for sometime we are in trouble and it certainly looks like that is the case. One of the other points I have made is that Capers does not know what he is doing with the offense. He has been, and always will be, uncomfortible with the offense. His focus is defense. I'm sorry but everyone including Casserly is saying the same thing...
No, you've posted that the Texans have been sitting on their hands and ignoring the woes on the offensive line. Now that they are attempting to sort out what they can do on the line by bringing guys in and swapping positions, you use that as an example of why they are in trouble. Heads you win. Tails they lose.

Please, provide a link where Casserly states that Capers doesn't know what he's doing regarding the offense. Everyone knows that Capers is a former defensive coordinator. If the Texans had hired a former offensive coordinator as head coach, you'd be able say the guy knows nothing about defense. It's a circular argument. This just in: Bill Belichick is a former DC whose focus is defense. Has that been a bad thing for New England?

For once, why can't you let these things sort themselves out on the field? If Capers can't fix the pass protection and the offense goes down the tubes, he'll get the pink slip you think he so richly deserves. You're on record. You can come back and remind all of us that you told us so way back when. Me? I need to see how the Texans finish the offseason, watch some training camp & preseason, and get into the regular season before I can determine what the Texans have or have not done to improve this team. If it's the same old-same old, I'll be with you calling for the guillotine. Until then, give it a rest.
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Old 05-27-2005   #45
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Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
An article from the Chronicle on the Oline.

If you go to the Chronicle you can also get the Justice and McCLain show on the same subject. It doesn't look good at all. I've been posting for sometime we are in trouble and it certainly looks like that is the case. One of the other points I have made is that Capers does not know what he is doing with the offense. He has been, and always will be, uncomfortible with the offense. His focus is defense. I'm sorry but everyone including Casserly is saying the same thing, but I really don't think Capers gets it. As a person he is wonderful, but he is not head coaching material.

What does Capers have to do with the offensive line? Let's see: Casserly, not Capers makes personnel decisions. There is an O.C. in charge of the offense and an OL coach in charge of the OL. Both coaches are respected and Pendry was sought after this offseason to become an O.C.

I'm just curious as to how Capers is impeding OL improvement. Obviously he is willing to make sacrifices to improve the OL... They were going to trade and sign Orlando Pace. Furthermore, Riley has been signed and Shelton has visited. For the first two seasons of the team's existence, they spent 3 first day picks on the OL (pitts, wand, weary).


IBAR, I'm sure you're a nice guye but perhaps you just aren't quality fan material. The combination of pessimism and ignorance is hard to stomach, IMO.
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Old 05-27-2005   #46
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Lopez is an *****. "...their options have gotten more complex, which is never a good thing"... What?

This is so ridiculous. The team gets criticized earlier in the offseason for not doing anything about the OL struggles. Then, as they begin to address the problems, it is a sign of trouble?! I think the 49 sacks were a pretty big sign of trouble. Obviously the line play needs to improve. I just don't see how adding depth, addressing the protection schemes, and working with players by moving them along the line is a sign that it's in more trouble than it was in before. It's freakin' MAY!!!
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Old 05-27-2005   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
An article from the Chronicle on the Oline.

If you go to the Chronicle you can also get the Justice and McCLain show on the same subject. It doesn't look good at all. I've been posting for sometime we are in trouble and it certainly looks like that is the case. One of the other points I have made is that Capers does not know what he is doing with the offense. He has been, and always will be, uncomfortible with the offense. His focus is defense. I'm sorry but everyone including Casserly is saying the same thing, but I really don't think Capers gets it. As a person he is wonderful, but he is not head coaching material.

Ibar you have finally convinced me. The Texans will never win another game. Hey they will never score another point(on offense). Would you like to buy my tickets? They are of no use to me. using them only to see a team that couldn't beat Stratford High I don't think so. Hey I have an idea why don't you go to work as an interum GM I mean McNair has to see how bad Capers and Casserly are doing only getting beater each year. If IBar was in charge then wow we would win the SuperBowl for sure.
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Old 05-27-2005   #48
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Originally Posted by dalemurphy
What does Capers have to do with the offensive line? Let's see: Casserly, not Capers makes personnel decisions. There is an O.C. in charge of the offense and an OL coach in charge of the OL. Both coaches are respected and Pendry was sought after this offseason to become an O.C.
As the head coach Capers is responsible for what the Texans do on the field. If he isn't then who is?
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Old 05-27-2005   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wags
As the head coach Capers is responsible for what the Texans do on the field. If he isn't then who is?
I didn't say that Capers doesn't have the burden of responsibility as the head coach. I'm saying the problem with the OL is not a result of Capers disinterest in offense or lack of understanding of it, etc... as IBAR was arguing. If we're bringing in the wrong guys and drafting poorly, not coaching the line properly, etc... then the complaint should be that Capers needs to fire and replace the O coaches and McNair needs to replace Casserly. Capers has already intervened regarding the protection scheme this offseason. He understands the importance of an OL working properly.

IBAR's post essentially places all the blame of the OL on Capers and then calls him unqualified to be a head coach. RIDICULOUS!!
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Old 05-27-2005   #50
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The NFL has a check and balance system most of the time . CC. is in charge of personel and football operations . Capers is in charge of what happens on the field .

The Texans went after Orlando Pace , I would consider that an effort to improve . They have also signed a free agent and drafted a center and are changing their offense . A move in a desperate attempt to patch things would only set them back further IMO. If there was a clear solution I'm thinking it would have been done by now .

Some of postings you read are funny cause it seems these writers can't believe the Texans brass are not listening to them . I will now transform myself into a make believe GM and be able to do what I want when I want and trade Bennie Joppru for Robert Gallery . See its easy to fix the Texans OL .
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Old 05-27-2005   #51
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The problem is not what I am saying and have been saying, but now you are seeing everyone else start saying the same thing. When the GM has to tell the head coach to do something concerning the O-line, when the Owner has to say something, and the QB has to go to his head coach, yes you have a very big problem and if you can't see that, then OH WELL.

Yes, I believe Capers is in over his head and he is not head coaching material. Is he an excellent defensive coach, good person and you can go on and on and the answer is YES. However, I do not believe he should be a head coach. Head coaches are a different type of person and have broader visions of the total game. They are able to process qualitative and quantitative information and see its relavance. Any of us would walk up and say Capers is a heck of a guy and wonderful person. This has nothing to do about how nice a guy Capers is.

You have people like McClain who has been around a long time saying the Texans basically don't know how to fix the problem. That says a lot. I still say that Capers input to the draft has affected the decisions Casserly has had to make. Capers is predominately a defensive person. Part of the Texans problems stems from the injuries two years ago. I really believe they had planned to focus on the O-line last year and this year, but injuries on the defensive side of the ball overwelmed them. The result is a continuing problem with the O-line along with a Capers priority of Defense first. I will also say that I believe Capers has had too much confidence in his assistants and they have let him down. You can say what you want, but if you open your eyes its obvious.

Now, do I hope they find a way to get through this, Yes. DO I WANT THE TEXANS TO WIN THIS YEAR, YES. Do I want Carr to have a great season, yes. Again, I could go on and on, but the upstart of it all is we have a giant O-line problem to fix and its like they stuck their heads in the sand and hoped and wished it would go away, but it has not.

Having read some of the recent material on Shelton and the responses, I'm not so certain he will do what we want? We apparently don't want to offer him too much which I find to be an interesting comment. That means they are scared about something about him. On issues of character and such I will say Capers and Casserly have been correct. I keep hoping that may be like the Chargers last year a couple of our unhearlded rookies will come through and surprise us. I really would like to see a lot of younger bodies in the TC competing for O-line spots.
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Old 05-27-2005   #52
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I don't have any doubts that Hudson Houck could improve this line . He is a really good coach and he's in Miami now I believe .
Its hard for me to believe our line can be that bad again and if they are heads will roll cause I believe theres some talent in our camp on the OL . I think if CC thought it was strictly a talent problem he would have worked harder on getting OL help .
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Old 05-27-2005   #53
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In terms of heads rolling, to what extent will the Texans go to protect Carr? Do you think they will just do the 3 and 5 step drop passes? Will they substitute the RB on passing downs for the best blocker and abandon the run on 3rd and long? Will they find a better pass blocking TE that can neutralize Freeney with some help from an OT? The solution to the OL seems to elude me. I have given up on signing an OT in FA. I can't wait to see what this years blocking schemes will bring.
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Old 05-27-2005   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
I need to see how the Texans finish the offseason, watch some training camp & preseason, and get into the regular season before I can determine what the Texans have or have not done to improve this team.

Should be mandatory reading for all board members. Maybe the most sensible thing in this thread. Thanks Lucky.

So many people in here watch the Free Agent market and decide right then wether the team's going to be any better on that alone.

Then they watch the draft and decide whether the team will be any better based on that alone.

Then they go back to looking at the remaining Free Agents and based on what the team does or doesn't do then they decide whether there will be any improvement and which coaches need to get a pink slip.

Once the June 1st cuts are out they do it all over again, Mini camp, Training camp, other teams cutting players ("We should get him!"), preseason, and on until the season starts and you can finally just (mostly) talk about what's on the field.

Wish it would hurry up and get here.
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Old 05-27-2005   #55
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Originally Posted by Hervoyel
Should be mandatory reading for all board members. Maybe the most sensible thing in this thread. Thanks Lucky.

So many people in here watch the Free Agent market and decide right then wether the team's going to be any better on that alone.

Then they watch the draft and decide whether the team will be any better based on that alone.

Then they go back to looking at the remaining Free Agents and based on what the team does or doesn't do then they decide whether there will be any improvement and which coaches need to get a pink slip.

Once the June 1st cuts are out they do it all over again, Mini camp, Training camp, other teams cutting players ("We should get him!"), preseason, and on until the season starts and you can finally just (mostly) talk about what's on the field.

Wish it would hurry up and get here.
Well said!!
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Old 05-27-2005   #56
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[quote=Ibar_Harry]The problem is not what I am saying and have been saying, but now you are seeing everyone else start saying the same thing. When the GM has to tell the head coach to do something concerning the O-line, when the Owner has to say something, and the QB has to go to his head coach, yes you have a very big problem and if you can't see that, then OH WELL.

Yes, I believe Capers is in over his head and he is not head coaching material. Is he an excellent defensive coach, good person and you can go on and on and the answer is YES. However, I do not believe he should be a head coach. Head coaches are a different type of person and have broader visions of the total game. They are able to process qualitative and quantitative information and see its relavance. Any of us would walk up and say Capers is a heck of a guy and wonderful person. This has nothing to do about how nice a guy Capers is.

You have people like McClain who has been around a long time saying the Texans basically don't know how to fix the problem. That says a lot. QUOTE]


I wasn't arguing to give Capers slack because he's a good person. I believe he's a very good head coach. I don't think Carr going to Capers has anything to do with Capers deciding to speak to Palmer. Perhaps the discussion with Casserly did, but if so, that's fine. That's the way things are supposed to work. Perhaps Capers did give Palmer too much credit and freedom last season. Well, that's been corrected.

You think that Capers doesn't have the vision to see and address problems outside of his speciality? Okay, but it seems that you think John McClain does? Give me a break! All that says is that McClain is obviously on target with his audience.

How much input do you think Capers had in the decision to get Boselli, Ryan Young, McKinney, Wade, draft: pitts, wand, weary... go after Pace, Shelton, Riley. Was Casserly saying "no, I really don't want Boselli. I don't think he'll ever be healthy. Please Dom don't make me take him"... or, "Ryan Young's going to have injury problems and never produce for us, Dom. Why can't you see that and let me take someone else?"
I know Dom was really eager to sign McKinney also but Casserly fought him on that to. Dom scouted Weary and said let's spend a pick on this guy, I can tell he's go to be a great interior lineman.
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Old 05-27-2005   #57
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Pardon me, but I find this whole attempt to criticize Capers for the problems of the OL very distasteful. First of all, the team has only been around for 3 years. The reason why Carr has been sacked more in three years than anyone else isn't because the line is horrible (well, it was horrible in 2002). It's because Carr has been playing behind a mediocre to bad line and is so damn tough and not prone to injury that he's started all but 3 games during that span.

This organization made a concerted effort to build a good OL from the beginning. Unfortunately, Bosselli and Ryan Young did not work out and to a lesser extent, McKinney hasn't either. For the first two drafts, the organization spent almost all their first day picks on the offensive side of the ball. There is no evidence for this supposed bias that Capers has towards defense. Unfortunately the veterans that the organization (CASSERLY) brought in have greatly disappointed (Bosselli, Young, McKinney, Weigert, Wade). Some of the draft picks have disappointed to this point (Weary, MBrown)... None of this is the fault of Dom Capers!!!

Let's see what the coaching staff is able to do with the development of this line this season and the impact of handling Palmer better will have on the line, the offense, and the season.

Someone list the mistakes Capers has made in regards to the OL, IBAR?!
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Old 05-27-2005   #58
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The chicken little brigade is unreal this year. We are a team that was 7-9 in their 3rd season ever!!! The sky is not falling people. We have a legit playoff shot this season. Isn't that what we all wanted when we started this thing in 2002? I don't grasp all the complaining. It's pretty incredible if you ask me....its like we are coming off a 2-14 year. I see fans of other .500 teams across the NFL and most of them are excited about their next year while we just complain over and over and over.
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Old 05-27-2005   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
I see fans of other .500 teams across the NFL and most of them are excited about their next year while we just complain over and over and over.
Yes of course Vinny but see that's just it. We aren't a .500 team. We're one win shy of being a .500 team and THAT is why

Caper's must go
Capers is a fool
Capers can't coach offense
Casserly can't pick talent so Capers has nothing to work with
Casserly CAN pick talent but Capers doesn't know what to do with it
Palmer MUST GO!
Fangio MUST GO!
Toro MUST GO!
Palmer and Fangio MUST GO see Toro and get some coaching lessons!
The Texans are doing nothing to fix the offensive line
The Texans are trying to fix the offensive line but it won't work
and on, and on, and on.

It's really all about the .500 record. If the Texans had won against Cleveland (or in any of the other close losses they had last year) then the Texans would be .500 and I bet 40% of this mess wouldn't be here. The hardcore gloomers would still be doing their thing but the rest of the posters wouldn't be such a fertile audience. One more win and this off season would have been a little more fun (And we still could have drafted TJ )
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Old 05-27-2005   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hervoyel
It's really all about the .500 record. If the Texans had won against Cleveland
Speaking for myself, its not about missing the .500 mark by one win near as much as it's about the loss, and a really embarrasing loss in our season and
home final against the Browns. We were headed in the right direction at the end of the year with two impressive road wins - in really bad weather in Chicago and then what was one of our most imoressive, if not the most impressaive win of the year at Jacksonsonville. And then the season final in
Reliant. That was our last memory to take into this offseason. To me 7-9
and missing .500 by a single win isn't the problem , its the last game of the year against the Browns and the manner in which we lost, etc.
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