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Old 05-26-2005   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wags
Concerning the OL we have come from 76 sacks in year one to 49 sacks in year three. That's great progress to you?
you forgot to mention how in year 2 we only gave up 36 sacks. that is progress wouldnt you say?

in year 3 we gave up 49 like you said; however i do not think we took a step back because we moved pitts to guard, started wand, and brought in wade.

i think this past season plus more work in the offseason will once again cut down the sacks by a considerable amount. also helping will be this "new" style of more timing routes. shelton might be signed (i hope not) but i doubt he would unseat wand at the LT position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hervoyel
I don't think Shelton will be an improvement over Wand and I'm convinced that the line will be nearly unchanged in personnel this year. That I think will improve it.

Wish the season would get here so we could see who's right about this.
exactly how i feel. these coaching sessions are providing some drama.
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Old 05-26-2005   #22
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honestly this offensive line has me already confussed as to the solutions the Texans will try & contrive. adding questionable characters via free agency that other teams feel expendable does not seem like the pathway for success.

my vote would be to leave the line intact from last year at least at the start of the season and see if they've become familar with the system & each other before we make drastic changes. I'm all for giving these guys one more year, healthy to become a very good NFL line
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Old 05-26-2005   #23
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I'm all for signing Shelton as long as its not some huge contract. He can come and COMPETE for the job and either him or Wand will win out, regardless the competition will force someone to elevate their game, and lets not forget that having good backups on the O-line is important, injury and fatigue, it could be the first time we have depth behind our starters. Shelton would be a big improvement over Wand in the passing game.
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Old 05-26-2005   #24
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I've said elsewhere that I'm pretty convinced Casserly is already eyeing the top OT prospects in next year's draft class, which would make a big contract for Shelton unlikely. If he comes cheap, great; otherwise, don't touch him with a bargepole. There's no harm in depth, but plenty in expensive depth.
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Old 05-26-2005   #25
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agreed, shelton could be a 2 year stop gap, this year, and next year while a high draft pick develops... that may be the plan
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Old 05-26-2005   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexansNeedRBin05
I sure hope we get Shelton and lets just for a second assume we do, What will are starting O-line look like?

LT. Shelton
LG. Pitts
C. Wand/Wiegart/Mckinney
RG. Wand/Wiegrat (dont know if i spelled Wiegrat right but)
RT. Riley

I for one like that! IF Carr gets sacked or David cant run behind that they suck.
If Shelton signs it will certainly be interesting to see the competition at LT. I dont think they will sign him right away though, but will wait for the June 1st cuts and see what else coems up on the market.

Shelton vs Wand -

I think Shelton has the size and technique to make the difference over the year and bea good LT - ??? is IF he wants to do that or if he is just looking for another check.

I think Wand could develop into a decent Backup LT - I dont think he has the size and strength/wingspan or technique to be a starting LT.

Shelton I give a 50/50 chance of us signing before June 1st -He wants to make visits to other teams and will do so right up to the cut. My take is we will wait and see what comes up june 1st on the market and then make him an offer if nothing better comes up. We need more depth on the line at this point and he would provide that right away along with competition for LT albeit the level of competition and talent is still under review at this point. Dom & co brought him in, will put him thru drills and work him out - we will get more info on this soon I feel.

Riley - Unless Riley really busts his hump in Mini camps and comes in under weight for Training camp - he will be cut. He needs to do alot of strength and weight work. to get back in game shape

I think our Starting OL and Depth chart will look something like this

LT - Wand/FA LT[Shelton] /Pitts
LG - Pitts/Brown/Wand
C - Mckinney/Washington/Rookie
RG - Wiegert/Weary
RT - Wade/Jones/Riley
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Old 05-26-2005   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by U4ikrob
I think Wand could develop into a decent Backup LT - I dont think he has the size and strength/wingspan or technique to be a starting LT.
Obviously technique is something you are looking to develop in a developmental pick. As for size, how big are you thinking starting LT's are?

Seth Wand 6'7" 330 lbs

Orlando Pace 6' 7" 320 lbs
Walter Jones 6' 5" 315 lbs
Willie Roaf 6' 5" 315 lbs

Those are the best three LT's in the league and none are bigger than Wand. None of the top LT's from the past three drafts has been bigger either:

Jordan Gross 6' 4" 300 lbs
Robert Gallery 6' 7" 323 lbs
Alex Barron 6' 7" 320 lbs
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Old 05-26-2005   #28
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I thought for some reason he was only like 6'3 - My bad Cak - Whats his wingspan - he looks like he has short arms for some reason when blocking thus it looked like bad technique??

Ive just watched him on game film and didnt seem to play that size when watchign him. He seemed to get handled pretty bad at times by smaller guys when I watched. Of course our line usually fell apart from the middle most times in less than 3 seconds too but thats a moot point.

I agree - they will keep "developing" him - hopefully he will respond well and play at a higher level this year alogn with the rest of the line.
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Old 05-26-2005   #29
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He has a wingspan that goes with his height, i.e. very good. He didn't struggle so much against smaller guys as he struggled against speed guys but then a lot of LT's do that is why Freeney, Taylor and Kearse have gotten so many sacks. He has strengthened up a ton since getting out of college where they didn't have a position coach for him and had only a rudimentary lifting program. He has plenty of strength now as evidenced by DD running so well behind him and Pitts. IF, the middle of the line will hold this year he should have a sack total drop like Pitts did.

IMO one of the biggest question marks for this year is Weigert staying healthy. He was very good in 2003 but was mediocre in 2004 due to niggling injuries.
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Old 05-26-2005   #30
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Some of the theories posited here are a bit off. No way Hodgden starts as a rookie, unless he looks like the next Mike Webster. Doubtful he makes the final 53 imo. Wand won't play center either. If Shelton signs (fingers crossed) Riley will have alot of trouble making the final 53 as well. And, there is no way he starts over Wade.

As for Shelton, I am somewhere between he's a useless signing that won't beat out Wand, to he is our savior. I realize he was released, but I don't think it was a talent issue as much as a "lazy" issue. I think Green and him didn't see eye to eye, and Green is using him to set an example. Maybe being released will give him a wakeup call. However, imo, even at his worst, he gives us an experienced legit LT, and (again imo) is a clear upgrade over Wand. Most likely, we draft a blue chip LT next year. Shelton starts this year, and next as we work in our new LT. Wand becomes a long term backup swing tackle. I agree with not over paying him, but as long as he doesn't have long term guaranteed money, it's a great signing. They need to front load as much of his signing bonus as possible, and give him more cash than other teams. We have the cap room to do this. It helps the line. I don't see the negativity to this deal that alot of you do.
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Old 05-26-2005   #31
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What is hurting Wand is that the guys that he is facing are considerably faster then him. He is just not that fast of a player. Now with drive blocking he is much better but the speedy guys are tougher for him to hang with. Look at some of the guys the Texan's Left Tackle will have to face this year:

(stats from 2004)

Bills- Aaron Schobel 8 sacks
Bengals - Justin Smith 8 sacks
Seahawks - Bryce Fischer 8.5 sacks
Colts - Freeney league sack leader (freakazoid) (2 times per year)
Jags - Hayward 10.5 sacks (2 times per year)
Baltimore - Adalius Thomas 8 sacks
Cardinals - Bertrand Berry 14.5 sacks

I just hope that who ever is in there - is ready.
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Old 05-26-2005   #32
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I was viewing a video on the Houston Web sit on the line. It looks to me like the young center from AZ and Mynina Smith are at practice. I thought somewhere I saw rookies couldn't practice until June. Does anyone know the answer to that question? I'm going by numbers and I checked for duplicates so I'm not certain if there are some unposted duplicates.

The problem with what is going on right now is it would be exceedingly difficult to know how people would do in a game. Until we are in training camp I think it would be hard to judge the potential of a player. Its how they block in a competitive situation that determines what matters.

There was also a video of Carr throwing to the receivers. I think it was kind of showing their quick release attack. It looked to me like they were throwing very flat passes to people that might be impossible to throw to when the defense is on the field. Carr was obviously on target and winging them, but the same think applys here in that we aren't going to get some idea of the real thing until training camp.

There is just so much we are not allowed to due in these mini-seesions. Its kind of interesting, however, to watch what they are doing. Watch the linemen video and tell me does it look like they were trying to slug the dummies? What was your take on that video?
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Old 05-26-2005   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
I was viewing a video on the Houston Web sit on the line. It looks to me like the young center from AZ and Mynina Smith are at practice. I thought somewhere I saw rookies couldn't practice until June. Does anyone know the answer to that question? I'm going by numbers and I checked for duplicates so I'm not certain if there are some unposted duplicates.

The problem with what is going on right now is it would be exceedingly difficult to know how people would do in a game. Until we are in training camp I think it would be hard to judge the potential of a player. Its how they block in a competitive situation that determines what matters.

There was also a video of Carr throwing to the receivers. I think it was kind of showing their quick release attack. It looked to me like they were throwing very flat passes to people that might be impossible to throw to when the defense is on the field. Carr was obviously on target and winging them, but the same think applys here in that we aren't going to get some idea of the real thing until training camp.

There is just so much we are not allowed to due in these mini-seesions. Its kind of interesting, however, to watch what they are doing. Watch the linemen video and tell me does it look like they were trying to slug the dummies? What was your take on that video?

1st What the linemen were doing was not "slugging" it is a simple swim move.
2nd What is your point? I guess since we are not allowed (like every other team) to have full contact that we should not even practice. The point is this to go at full speed and for each player to learn where he is going to be on a specfic play and trust that his teammates will be where they are suppossed to be. This is the begining of our march to the playoffs.
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Old 05-26-2005   #34
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'Cak, do you really rate all three of those guys above Ogden?

Not necessarily violently disagreeing, just saying I think such a claim would be controversial.
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Old 05-26-2005   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Shush
'Cak, do you really rate all three of those guys above Ogden?

Not necessarily violently disagreeing, just saying I think such a claim would be controversial.
Nope, simple example of cranial flatulence--I forgot him. Just make my prior statement into Wand is bigger than 3 of the 4 best in the NFL.

Ogden may be the largest LT in the league--6' 9" 345 lbs. But heck, you can hardly use the largest of anything as the standard for how big someone should be.
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Old 05-26-2005   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
I thought somewhere I saw rookies couldn't practice until June. Does anyone know the answer to that question?
Rookies are allowed to start practicing when they are done with their school term, so it varies by school.
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Old 05-26-2005   #37
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Default There is no question about wand's size or strength

His size is good and his strength is fine now.........its his speed and agility....its his talent level at LT. Left Tackles need to have some good foot speed and good lateral movement. His talent level at LT just is not good. He's much better suited physically and talent wise to play RT.

Shelton is a former basketball player and has good footwork. He's a LT, that's what he likes to play, and that's where he's comfortable. Wand is not a LT.

It doesn't matter how many years a line plays together, if they are not talented enough to play their positions then the line will consistently fall apart.

Mckinney is best suited for the bench, as far as the best fit for his talents go, so therefore, he needed to be replaced first, not WAND. But, Shelton is an upgrade of WAND, so therefore the smart thing to do. The smarter thing to do would've been to draft Chris Spencer in the DRAFT, so we wouldn't have to play Mckinney.

I'm still praying for Hodgdon to be able to learn the offense quickly and learn everything that he needs to and get stronger, in order to beat out Mckinney. For a 5th round pick it will be a miracle, so I'm praying for a miracle.
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Old 05-27-2005   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DominatorDavis
What is hurting Wand is that the guys that he is facing are considerably faster then him. He is just not that fast of a player. Now with drive blocking he is much better but the speedy guys are tougher for him to hang with. Look at some of the guys the Texan's Left Tackle will have to face this year:

(stats from 2004)

Bills- Aaron Schobel 8 sacks
Bengals - Justin Smith 8 sacks
Seahawks - Bryce Fischer 8.5 sacks
Colts - Freeney league sack leader (freakazoid) (2 times per year)
Jags - Hayward 10.5 sacks (2 times per year)
Baltimore - Adalius Thomas 8 sacks
Cardinals - Bertrand Berry 14.5 sacks

I just hope that who ever is in there - is ready.
I think we should implement the NE plan. Those DE that like to get wide and then run around our LT we should use a slot WR to bump them back inside to the LT. I think that will give Wand or whoever ample amount of time and room to get his massive body of them. I think if we can hold off the DE's i think Carr will have alot of time to throw the ball and more hole for DD and crew. JMO
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Old 05-27-2005   #39
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An article from the Chronicle on the Oline.

If you go to the Chronicle you can also get the Justice and McCLain show on the same subject. It doesn't look good at all. I've been posting for sometime we are in trouble and it certainly looks like that is the case. One of the other points I have made is that Capers does not know what he is doing with the offense. He has been, and always will be, uncomfortible with the offense. His focus is defense. I'm sorry but everyone including Casserly is saying the same thing, but I really don't think Capers gets it. As a person he is wonderful, but he is not head coaching material.
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Old 05-27-2005   #40
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Default what's going on?

"Training camp hasn't even begun, but feel free to worry about Carr's having to take more beatings in 2005. The Texans certainly are."

A quote from John Lopez of the Chronicle on 05/27/05--many posters
have been positive that our line would be better this year by just staying
pat and playing with the 'continuity' of the same players at the same
posisitions, so what is yall's take on this article? Anything to worry about
here?
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