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Randy Bullock vs Shayne Graham

TexanSam

TexanSam

Hall of Fame
Graham made field goals from 48 and 49 yards tonight while Bullock missed from 51. He did make a 52 yarder last week though. It's hard to imagine the Texans cutting Bullock since they drafted him in the 5th round, but if Graham kicks better in the preseason then they'll have a touch choice to make. Anyone have any thoughts about the kicking battle?
 
TexanSam said:
Graham made field goals from 48 and 49 yards tonight while Bullock missed from 51. He did make a 52 yarder last week though. It's hard to imagine the Texans cutting Bullock since they drafted him in the 5th round, but if Graham kicks better in the preseason then they'll have a touch choice to make. Anyone have any thoughts about the kicking battle?
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In Preseason here is what we have seen:

Bullock: make 21, 52, miss 51, 3/4 on fgs, and 3/3 on epa.
Graham: make 20, 37, 48, 49. 4/4 on fgs.

Bullock has been 3/4 on fgs and the miss was a 51 yarder. That is not exactly a gimmie. There is no shame in missing a 51 yarder. Graham is 4/4 but has also been given 2 gimmies (20 and 37) along with 2 challenging 48/49.

I think this is still Bullock's job to lose. For Graham to win this job, Bullock has to miss a few in the 30 yard range and I don't see that happening.
 
Doppelganger said:
In Preseason here is what we have seen:

Bullock: make 21, 52, miss 51, 3/4 on fgs, and 3/3 on epa.
Graham: make 20, 37, 48, 49. 4/4 on fgs.

Bullock has been 3/4 on fgs and the miss was a 51 yarder. That is not exactly a gimmie. There is no shame in missing a 51 yarder. Graham is 4/4 but has also been given 2 gimmies (20 and 37) along with 2 challenging 48/49.

I think this is still Bullock's job to lose. For Graham to win this job, Bullock has to miss a few in the 30 yard range and I don't see that happening.
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Good Post. :bravo:

Edit: I also see Bullock winning the job. I think Graham is there just to pressure him and see what he's made of.
 
Graham should win the job.

In no way should we trust a rookie kicker with what's on the line this season.

Graham looks calm out there, no freaky action on his kicks. He's making the kicks.

This is one of those Maynard-Hartmann situations where it's plain to see which guy is doing better...so therefore Kubiak will cut the wrong person, IMO.
 
GP said:
Graham should win the job.

In no way should we trust a rookie kicker with what's on the line this season.

Graham looks calm out there, no freaky action on his kicks. He's making the kicks.

This is one of those Maynard-Hartmann situations where it's plain to see which guy is doing better...so therefore Kubiak will cut the wrong person, IMO.
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I subscribe to this. To this point, Graham is ahead.
 
Rey said:
What was the distance on grahms 4th fg? You have him 3/4 but I only see 3 listed.
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Sorry it was a typo.

Graham has attempted 4 fgs and has made all 4(20, 37, 48, 49)
Bullock has attempted 3 and has made 2(21 and 52) and missed a 51.
Bullock is also 4/4 on epas.

50+ fgs are tough tough kicks to make. I would like to see Bullock attempt some 40 yarders. All he has had is really easy(epas, 20) and really hard(51/52). Graham has gotten the more reasonable assignment thus far. If Bullock can nail those 40 yarders(as I think he can), its his job. If he cant hit his 40s he may develop an "injury" and need to go on IR.
 
This kicker battle is wide open ... I have no idea who wins it.


One thing that concerns me about both is the lack of depth on KO's.
 
Graham has a good track record int he NFL. I think he had some injury issues the last couple years, but not sure about that. Looks healthy now, at any rate. He's a vet that won't let the big moments get to him. I thought when they brought him in that he was washed up and was just here to provide some light competition and maybe a little pro advice for the youngster. Now I'm thinking Graham didn't get that memo. He wants this job. I'm torn right now.
 
eriadoc said:
Graham has a good track record int he NFL. I think he had some injury issues the last couple years, but not sure about that. Looks healthy now, at any rate. He's a vet that won't let the big moments get to him. I thought when they brought him in that he was washed up and was just here to provide some light competition and maybe a little pro advice for the youngster. Now I'm thinking Graham didn't get that memo. He wants this job. I'm torn right now.
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My exact feelings on this.

Bullock I thought was going to be our long-term solution at kicker but Graham has made it too close to call. We can't assume anything.

Anyone ever put a kicker on the practice squad?
 
Honestly, I'm not crazy about either of these guys. The ball comes off low from both guys. Neither can kick it through the end zone on kickoffs. Graham looks better, now. But there's nothing on his resume that screams greatness. I was hoping to see something from Bullock, but he looks like just another guy.
 
Graham's kickoffs overall have been better as well. I think I trust him a little more with the job right now. Man, I hate even typing that.
 
Keep in mind, after seven seasons with the Bengals, even being an All Pro/Pro Bowler one season, and breaking many of the Bengals franchise records... he wasn't re-signed by the Bengals after missing two field goals in a playoff game against the Jets. He even missed a 27-yarder.

If the Bengals don't trust Graham in the playoffs, why should we?
 
I can't believe Randy Bullock missed a 51-yarder. That should be easy money for him. What a nice luxury it must be for the 49ers to have 6-time pro bowler and a future Hall of Famer, David Akers on their team. He made a 55-yarder last night and didn't even blink. I wish Houston had a kicker like that even though they don't come cheap.
 
GP said:
Graham should win the job.

In no way should we trust a rookie kicker with what's on the line this season.

Graham looks calm out there, no freaky action on his kicks. He's making the kicks.

This is one of those Maynard-Hartmann situations where it's plain to see which guy is doing better...so therefore Kubiak will cut the wrong person, IMO.
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Agree. If he let's the fact that they drafted Bullock (thanks Rick) get in the way of his decision to keep the better performer, then I hope he ends up paying for it with critical missed kicks.

Would be funny to see Graham get cut and go to the Colts, Titans or Jaguars.
 
BullBlitz said:
Agree. If he let's the fact that they drafted Bullock (thanks Rick) get in the way of his decision to keep the better performer, then I hope he ends up paying for it with critical missed kicks.

Would be funny to see Graham get cut and go to the Colts, Titans or Jaguars.
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That's real nice, wishing ill on "your team" because they make a decision you don't agree with.
 
Lucky said:
Honestly, I'm not crazy about either of these guys. The ball comes off low from both guys. Neither can kick it through the end zone on kickoffs. Graham looks better, now. But there's nothing on his resume that screams greatness. I was hoping to see something from Bullock, but he looks like just another guy.
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I'm glad to see someone else besides me has this same feeling. I was beginning to think I was imagining it. When the season starts, it's just a matter of time before teams start trying to block them for real.
 
Lucky said:
Honestly, I'm not crazy about either of these guys. The ball comes off low from both guys. Neither can kick it through the end zone on kickoffs. Graham looks better, now. But there's nothing on his resume that screams greatness. I was hoping to see something from Bullock, but he looks like just another guy.
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We were wondering last night if the kickers were told to lay off on the kickoffs, so the return teams could get a chance to do their stuff.
 
Bulls on Parade said:
I can't believe Randy Bullock missed a 51-yarder. That should be easy money for him. What a nice luxury it must be for the 49ers to have 6-time pro bowler and a future Hall of Famer, David Akers on their team. He made a 55-yarder last night and didn't even blink. I wish Houston had a kicker like that even though they don't come cheap.
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Much like what we saw with completion percentage, not every attempt is equally difficult. While there are a lot more factors going into whether or not a pass is complete, the major thing effecting kickers is distance. In 2010, kickers were perfect on kicks of less than 20 yards, made 95% of kicks between 20 and 30 yards, 88% between 30 and 40 yards, 74% between 40 and 50 yards, and 60% on kicks beyond 50.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/05/15/stat-sheet-misconceptions-field-goal-percentage/

The ability to hit 50 yarders with consistency is the great divide between kickers. Most guys can nail under 45 yards at 90% or better. Interesting, Graham is one of those guys who gets dicey about where he kicked from last night, but is very strong at shorter distances.
 
GlassHalfFull said:
We were wondering last night if the kickers were told to lay off on the kickoffs, so the return teams could get a chance to do their stuff.
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That's a good observation. That would make sense.

That kick Bullock missed last night wasn't because of distance. It made it there, was just wide right. Last week he hit a 52 yarder? I think he has plenty of leg, should be good at kickoffs.
 
GlassHalfFull said:
We were wondering last night if the kickers were told to lay off on the kickoffs, so the return teams could get a chance to do their stuff.
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I had not even considered that.

I have wondered for a while though if Donnie Jones is just a place holder until Hartman recoups and sits out his three games. We all KNOW he can boot it into the stands.

Not saying Jones is doing a bad job at all, but does anyone else subscribe to that line of thought?
 
people are getting on bullock for missing a 51-yarder? he had the distance, it was off to the right, im sure he can work on this. isnt bullock pretty much automatic within 35-40? i remember how shaky rackers was from those distances.. i recall nick scurfield reporting that bullock was outkicking graham in camp making all his kicks and graham missed a few of them..
 
drs23 said:
I had not even considered that.

I have wondered for a while though if Donnie Jones is just a place holder until Hartman recoups and sits out his three games. We all KNOW he can boot it into the stands.

Not saying Jones is doing a bad job at all, but does anyone else subscribe to that line of thought?
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also with 4.6 hang time
 
I think Bullock will win this spot, but it's still too early to call it. Missing a 51 yard FG is not reason enough to make a decision between the two.
 
drs23 said:
I had not even considered that.

I have wondered for a while though if Donnie Jones is just a place holder until Hartman recoups and sits out his three games. We all KNOW he can boot it into the stands.

Not saying Jones is doing a bad job at all, but does anyone else subscribe to that line of thought?
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Ive wondered what was going to happen here myself tho no one responded to my questioning .... Hartman (if healthy) seems a better punter , much bigger leg.
 
Bullock was a 5th round draft pick. For that reason, and that reason alone, Graham will get cut.

I would have thought that would be a given without even having to say it.
 
Bullock wins the job. Short of a disastrous season, he's our K for years to come.

Hartman is our Punter once his suspension is served. As nice as it would be to go 3 weeks without punting it's just not feasible to go w/o a P on the roster. Jones gets cut after week 3.
 
infantrycak said:
That's real nice, wishing ill on "your team" because they make a decision you don't agree with.
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It's not because it's a decision that I don't agree with. It's only in the case that Graham is cut after being a demonstrable better performer, and Bullock is kept only because he was a draft pick. We've seen enough poor personnel decisions.
 
GP said:
Graham should win the job.

In no way should we trust a rookie kicker with what's on the line this season.

Graham looks calm out there, no freaky action on his kicks. He's making the kicks.

This is one of those Maynard-Hartmann situations where it's plain to see which guy is doing better...so therefore Kubiak will cut the wrong person, IMO.
Click to expand...


I wouldnt say Graham has won anything yet , there are still two games to go to decide this battle.

Its easy to make the statement that Bullock has an advantage being drafted .... or thats the only reason he's kept (if thats the case) over Graham with the limited information we as fans have .... Its not like you are at the practice field every day watching the battle there under the microscope of the coaches and team.

I think Gary could win back to back :trophy:'s and you'd hammer him.

Wasnt Hartmann a rookie who got cut ?! Bad comparison.

BullBlitz said:
Agree. If he let's the fact that they drafted Bullock (thanks Rick) get in the way of his decision to keep the better performer, then I hope he ends up paying for it with critical missed kicks.

Would be funny to see Graham get cut and go to the Colts, Titans or Jaguars.
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I hope your internet & TV goes out .... during every game this season. :corrosion:
 
Graham seems to have the edge now but Randy may just be battling his groin strain more than he's letting on. I still think he will be the Texans kicker his trajectory goes vertical so much quicker which takes more leg strength. If you watch Graham closely you'll notice his kicks or more of the line driver nature, that are easily returnable or blocked in FG situations.
 
BullBlitz said:
It's not because it's a decision that I don't agree with. It's only in the case that Graham is cut after being a demonstrable better performer, and Bullock is kept only because he was a draft pick. We've seen enough poor personnel decisions.
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bs, its been 2 preseason games. bullock has missed 1 kick, (a 51-yarder at that).. what happens next week when graham misses 1 kick? thru training camp bullock has been the more accurate of the 2.. read the articles on HT about the kicking competition.. if you think graham has outperformed bullock youre talkin out your ass..

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d8159d921/Graham-s-second-miss
 
GlassHalfFull said:
We were wondering last night if the kickers were told to lay off on the kickoffs, so the return teams could get a chance to do their stuff.
Click to expand...

I don't think either one can kick it out of the end zone. From what I've seen, more of Graham's kickoffs go deeper into it.
 
Premier said:
bs, its been 2 preseason games. bullock has missed 1 kick, (a 51-yarder at that).. what happens next week when graham misses 1 kick? thru training camp bullock has been the more accurate of the 2.. read the articles on HT about the kicking competition.. if you think graham has outperformed bullock youre talkin out your ass..

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d8159d921/Graham-s-second-miss
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I didn't say Graham has outperformed Bullock. I said, in the event that Graham does outperform Bullock, Graham deserves the job. Struggle with reading comprehension?
 
BullBlitz said:
I didn't say Graham has outperformed Bullock. I said, in the event that Graham does outperform Bullock, Graham deserves the job. Struggle with reading comprehension?
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sorry, skimming thru post where you responded "i agree" to a post that started with "graham should win the job". re-read and it seems you were agreeing to the notion that bullock shouldnt make the team solely on the fact that hes a draftpick.
 
I wish they'd let one guy kick an entire preseason game. Next preseason game, the other guy kicks the whole game.

Give a guy a whole game and all attempts. Right???

Couldn't we learn more than swapping em out all game long? Let them feel like its all on them for a whole game.
 
GP said:
I wish they'd let one guy kick an entire preseason game. Next preseason game, the other guy kicks the whole game.

Give a guy a whole game and all attempts. Right???

Couldn't we learn more than swapping em out all game long? Let them feel like its all on them for a whole game.
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I guess the only problem is what if there aren't many kick attempts in a game? What if you kick 6 times in game 1 and dont have a fg attempt at all in game 2. At least by switching off you give both guys a chance to get some kicks.
 
Thorn said:
Bullock is beginning to irratate me with his short kick offs. If he keeps that crap up, I'd just as soon keep Graham.
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Not sure I agree.

I'd rather the kicker who is a bit short on kickoffs than the guy who misses game winning field goals.
 
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