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Old 08-20-2012   #101
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Default Re: Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Yep, it's zone coverage.

Show me the man to man coverage where they dedicate multiple defenders strictly to stopping Walter.

This argument is ridiculous. No one goes into game day designing triple coverages for Kevin Walter. That kind of stuff is reserved for Aj.

Show me all these plays in man to man coverage where kw is being bracketed by multiple defenders.

You telling me out of all the receivers we'll have kw is going to be the one drawing the double and triple teams? With Andre, OD, aria , Casey and Lestar/Martin on the field WALTER is going to be the one teams pay extra attention to in coverage?

Well we should be un-f'n droppable then because all the rest of those guys should eat single or no coverage alive then.
You need to read my posts more closely.

What I said is that when there are several defenders around Walter and Jean wide-open like in this play; the QB will definitely go to Jean.

It is one of the many reasons why Walter's production was down.

There's no argument whatsoever about a team planning on double-teaming Walter.

It's a phantom argument that the naysayers dig up out of the blue.
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Old 08-20-2012   #102
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Default Re: Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

My take. This thread is disrespectful towards a true professional football player who gives up his stats to grind & execute his assignments given. A true team player.

If you want fantasy football numbers you will be sadly disappointed, I know I've been there. There in lies the confusion because he is still out there playing hard, doing the little things like blocking assignments & in general a pain in the a$$ for the other team. If the younger WR finally step up & take some pressure off Andre then it will also help Walter because the passing game will open up more
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Old 08-20-2012   #103
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You need to read my posts more closely.

What I said is that when there are several defenders around Walter and Jean wide-open like in this play; the QB will definitely go to Jean.

It is one of the many reasons why Walter's production was down.

There's no argument whatsoever about a team planning on double-teaming Walter.

It's a phantom argument that the naysayers dig up out of the blue.
I wasn't responding to anything you said.

I'm on my phone so if I quoted you on accident I apologize.

As far as the phantom argument, I'd say the phantom argument is that a wr that has not been much of a threat catching passes is pulling coverage away from guys like owen Daniels and Andre Johnson.

Running through a guys zone and opening a hole for another guy is more about play design than something kw is doing.

Same thing last year in cincy when kw was the one wide open catching the pass.

My point is that the offense would, [b]at times,[\B] benefit more from a receiver that pulled coverage no matter what the play call is offensively or defensively. And if you don't give them the extra respect they can consistently beat you.

Kw is not that guy.
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Old 08-20-2012   #104
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Default Re: Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Yep, it's zone coverage.

Show me the man to man coverage where they dedicate multiple defenders strictly to stopping Walter.

This argument is ridiculous. No one goes into game day designing triple coverages for Kevin Walter. That kind of stuff is reserved for Aj.

Show me all these plays in man to man coverage where kw is being bracketed by multiple defenders.

You telling me out of all the receivers we'll have kw is going to be the one drawing the double and triple teams? With Andre, OD, aria , Casey and Lestar/Martin on the field WALTER is going to be the one teams pay extra attention to in coverage?

Well we should be un-f'n droppable then because all the rest of those guys should eat single or no coverage alive then.
Don't think that's what he means. Kind of like a crossing route where u intentionally tangle up the CBs/LBs. He's not saying Walter is so good he is getting triple teamed he's saying he goes into their zone and take some of the guys back with him sine he's in their zone.
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Old 08-20-2012   #105
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Default Re: Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

The upshot is Matt found the easiest target and it turned into six. I do think he could have attempted to zip one to KeyMart around the one yard line.

No idea if Coach Kubiak was chewing Matt about that play or a change he made/wanted or an earlier play or clock management or whatever.

And yes, Walter had 3 around him on that play.
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Old 08-20-2012   #106
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Default Re: Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
My take. This thread is disrespectful towards a true professional football player who gives up his stats to grind & execute his assignments given. A true team player.

If you want fantasy football numbers you will be sadly disappointed, I know I've been there. There in lies the confusion because he is still out there playing hard, doing the little things like blocking assignments & in general a pain in the a$$ for the other team. If the younger WR finally step up & take some pressure off Andre then it will also help Walter because the passing game will open up more
I'd much rather have a WR who an score and make plays then a guy who can block.
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Old 08-20-2012   #107
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Default Re: Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

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I'd much rather have a WR who an score and make plays then a guy who can block.
So you were upset to see Jacoby get cut then?
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Old 08-20-2012   #108
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Default Re: Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

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So you were upset to see Jacoby get cut then?
Actually Jacoby learned to block late. But no he made boneheaded plays plus his hands and route running were so bad he only made like 3 a year. I want a guy who can make 10-15 like Andre who can also make the little plays.
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Old 08-20-2012   #109
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Default Re: Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Running through a guys zone and opening a hole for another guy is more about play design than something kw is doing.
It does have a lot to do with play design .... Many of us have praised Kubiak's route combinations and play design. Thing is , the players on the field still have to properly execute that grand design for it to work .... Obviously KW is executing the plan or he wouldnt be on the field.

Im not saying he's the be all end all of WR's by any stretch of the imagination and would love to upgrade the position .... but as it stands , he does whats required / asked of him by selling his routes to those defenders and drawing their coverage.

You see it on the TD by Jean and again on the play that OD dropped .... he created that window of opportunity for OD with precise route running executing Kubiak's play design flawlessly.

I hope one of the kids takes his job ... not because I dont like KW or because I dont think he's a solid player .... but because if one of them does take his job , they will have earned it and shown to be a better player.
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Old 08-20-2012   #110
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Actually Jacoby learned to block late. But no he made boneheaded plays plus his hands and route running were so bad he only made like 3 a year. I want a guy who can make 10-15 like Andre who can also make the little plays.
I think jacoby was just as good blocking downfield as kw. I can remember a few times jacoby put db's on their ass as the rb ran past them.

I still think jacoby is gone because of the muffed punt.

It was his first muff of the season, but it would have been hard for him to come back here with his not so great receiving season and then that huge blunder.
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Old 08-20-2012   #111
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Obviously KW is executing the plan or he wouldnt be on the field.
I'm going to disagree with that. Kw is the best that we've had.

He's on the field because no one has been better or more consistent.

If he's executing "the plan" the team isn't asking him to take a pay cut. Why would you ask a guy to take a cut in pay that is doing everything exactly how you want it done?
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Old 08-20-2012   #112
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Default Re: Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
My take. This thread is disrespectful towards a true professional football player who gives up his stats to grind & execute his assignments given. A true team player.

If you want fantasy football numbers you will be sadly disappointed, I know I've been there. There in lies the confusion because he is still out there playing hard, doing the little things like blocking assignments & in general a pain in the a$$ for the other team. If the younger WR finally step up & take some pressure off Andre then it will also help Walter because the passing game will open up more
this is a football message board where people discuss football and yes sometimes criticize player performances. It's no different than talk radio. If players get their wittle feelings hurt they don't have to tune in to the radio or log on and they certainly get paid good money to deal with the criticism, so I doubt they care a whole lot. I know I wouldn't.
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Old 08-20-2012   #113
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Default Re: Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
I think jacoby was just as good blocking downfield as kw. I can remember a few times jacoby put db's on their ass as the rb ran past them.

I still think jacoby is gone because of the muffed punt.

It was his first muff of the season, but it would have been hard for him to come back here with his not so great receiving season and then that huge blunder.
Jacoby is gone because it finally became evident to even Gary Kubiak, that Jacoby just isn't likely to be able to string it together consistently and because of big mistakes in ST play. I just have a bad feeling Posey is JJ 2.0.

This thread is really disrespectful to KW? Really?!

Even the OP isn't saying we should cut KW or put him in street clothes, but that he needs to see less playing time because he's just not producing. It's not basing any observation on hyperbole, but the real fact his production has dropped off a cliff. This was not lost on the FO in the off-season when he was asked to take a paycut. He just doesn't look like he belongs outside anymore.
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Old 08-20-2012   #114
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Default Re: Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

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I did not realize that. I too was thinking they could stash Posey on the IR. Well, that changes everything & gives more weight to what Spencer was saying during the game last night about Holliday complicating the WR position.

For those that missed his comment, he suggested that the Texans may reduce the number of RB's it carries. We might have to stash Forsett, Grimes & Meggett on the PS. Is Forsett still eligible for the PS?

In any event, with Kubiak's respect for his veterans & the young guns lack of experience, I see Walter being listed as the starter & Jean/Martin coming in shortly after the first play or two. I also see Walter being inserted in when we go into a run the clock out running game due to his blocking skills.

Assuming the 3 young guns develop into bonafide starters this year, I can see the Texans letting KW walk next year.

Also, I wouldn't be too surprised to see Schaub gone after this year.
He is not eligible. It is definitely going to be interesting to see how this all plays out. I hope Posey makes it because I think he has a lot of potential if we can get back into it and get some pointers from AJ and the like.

Plus he waved to me at the Carolina game.
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Old 08-20-2012   #115
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Default Re: Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
My take. This thread is disrespectful towards a true professional football player who gives up his stats to grind & execute his assignments given. A true team player.

If you want fantasy football numbers you will be sadly disappointed, I know I've been there. There in lies the confusion because he is still out there playing hard, doing the little things like blocking assignments & in general a pain in the a$$ for the other team. If the younger WR finally step up & take some pressure off Andre then it will also help Walter because the passing game will open up more
I agree with this.

KW may have lost a step, I don't know, when it comes to stats there are a lot of factors, and I don't watch games like game film, so I won't speculate where is performance is compared to his high yardage years.

I don't like when a player that works hard and play hard are talked about in the same way as a player like Travis Johnson. KW has been a solid player since his arrival, and deserves our respect.

No disrepect to the OP, but perhaps the title of the thread should be something along the lines of "Young WR may push Kevin Walter to 2nd string."
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Old 08-20-2012   #116
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Default Re: Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

I sort of skimmed over the last couple pages, and don't feel like quoting any particular poster, so I'll just add my thoughts here. For the record, I want Jean to take Walter's spot. I'm not coming at this from a defense of Walter standpoint. I'm truly trying to understand what it is that Kubiak sees in him that keeps Walter not only on the team, but starting. My personal feelings don't factor into that, because I have no say on his status. I think too many of you are only looking at stats and wanting a WR that puts up stats. That's well and fine, but you have to consider the possibility that Kubiak does not want the same things as you do. So the question then shifts.

I think Kubiak draws up some brilliant plays. If he draws up a brilliant play that requires a WR to go into the heart of a zone defense and draw defenders away from a spot, then he has to have someone sacrifice their stats to do that. You aren't going to ask someone like AJ to do that. He could ask any number of second rate WRs to do that, but he's chosen Walter. Why? Well, he knows Walter and we don't. Until now, we haven't seen on film what Walter does. And so far, the only guy here who says he's watched the All-22 is reporting back with things y'all don't want to hear.

As for the contract restructure/pay cut, I have my own question about it, relative to other offseason activity. Walter has not only played in most of the games since he started playing for the Texans (his 2nd year here, I think), but he's been a starter. Why would you ask a guy like Walter to take a pay cut and then make him the starter? I mean, I get that he makes a little too much money for what they want him to do, and they recognize that, and also they have a ton of other offseason considerations like Myers, Foster, and Duane Brown. But if a guy isn't producing like you want, teams most often just cut them. You don't generally see starters asked to take a pay cut and then remain as a starter. Now add to that line of thinking that they never even asked Winston to take a pay cut. They just cut him outright. He's a far better tackle than Walter is a WR in most fans' opinions (so, grain of salt and all that). But he was just unceremoniously cut loose. They didn't even try to get anything in return.

If they asked him to take a pay cut and then relegated him to backup and/or spot duty, that would mesh better with some of the arguments I'm seeing against Walter. Personally, I just get the feel that they were up against some hard economic realities and they targeted him as a guy that they really wanted to keep but felt like he was making a little too much. I don't read from it that he's on his way out because of it. He may be on his way out, but that'll be because Jean and Martin steps up to his level, not because Walter steps down to anyone else's level.

As always, JMO.
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Old 08-20-2012   #117
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Default Re: Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

OMG!!!! KW didin't make a catch in PS!!!! PANIC BUTTON, PANIC BUTTON!!!!

Seriously, do you really think Kubiak is gonna start anyone else on opening weekend? KW only made the biggest reception in Texan's history' with the last second TD grab against Cinci, that secured our 1st ever playoff berth.

Yes that catch out does Billy Miller's TD grab against the Cowpie's way back in '02
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Old 08-20-2012   #118
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Default Re: Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

Kevin Walter will be our #2 WR until Lestar Jean can prove that he can play WR2 and Martin will be the slot guy, and KW/Posey will be WR4.
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Old 08-20-2012   #119
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Default Re: Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

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OMG!!!! KW didin't make a catch in PS!!!! PANIC BUTTON, PANIC BUTTON!!!!

Seriously, do you really think Kubiak is gonna start anyone else on opening weekend? KW only made the biggest reception in Texan's history' with the last second TD grab against Cinci, that secured our 1st ever playoff berth.

Yes that catch out does Billy Miller's TD grab against the Cowpie's way back in '02
Biggest reception in Texans history? Good grief you guys overrate Houston Athletes to such a high degree for being lovable guys at times. I sit back and look at the several threads where so many are going way out of their way to defend this average WR that is known for nothing but his alleged genius blocking and now you guys are at the point of calling a catch of his toward the end of the season as the most important catch in Texans history? Some of you have gone mad. This guy is about the most replaceable guy on this offense. I'm getting really tired of hearing this stuff about Walter as if he is Wes Welker or Lynn Swann making diving catches in the SB. This has gotten way out of hand at this point. I'm hearing some people call it disrespectful to criticize a guy who puts up around 500 yards in a season? Some of you need to drop the Kool Aid pitcher and realize that Walter is no more important to this team then Kareem Jackson is honestly. Kareem Jackson is an average to below average CB that gets hidden in a defense as much as possible. Walter is no different. This stuff I keep reading is unbelievable.

People from other teams would laugh their asses off at how coddled Walter is by certain Houston fans who just love to overrate a guy because he is a good guy.
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Old 08-20-2012   #120
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Default Re: Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post

LJ was and never would have been a good player to bring in around that time either. He was horrible at that time and had a really bad attitude.
So you're saying starting Chris Brown was the best option?
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