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Old 08-17-2012   #41
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Default Re: Thoughts on Conner Barwin being expendable?

There's just no way the Texans retain all starters with the amount of big name contracts expiring in in the next two years. About the only sure thing is Cushing--can anyone imagine a scenario where he isn't retained after 2013?

There are only 3 variables to consider in keeping a player:
(1) How important is that player to the team?
(2) How developed/ready is the depth behind him?
(3) Do you have enough $$$ to give him a contract?

Barwin seems about as least likely to walk for $$$ as any player I've seen. He's a goofball whose only car is a prius, rides his bicycle to work, and by all accounts lives a low-maintenance lifestyle. Unfortunately it's his agent that will be doing the negotiating. And if Mercilus/Brahman work out, we could be looking at a 3-man OLB rotation that only needs to find 1 more backup pass rusher.

If Crick or Jamison have a good year they might let A.Smith walk. Quin is a solid player, but I wouldn't panic if they replaced him with Nolan or KJ.

Schaub is the most interesting case to me. What is market value on a 32-year-old finesse QB with an injury history? Plus, Yates has proven that there is a serviceable guy behind him.
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Old 08-17-2012   #42
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Default Re: Thoughts on Conner Barwin being expendable?

I look around the league and to be honest I don't see a great deal of player movement relative to the number of established "stars" out there. It's a balancing act and most teams eventually do lose somebody but you don't see a high-profile player leaving every team, every year do you?

What's going to start working in the Texans favor if they continue to win is that for every guy who wants to leave for more money there will be a couple who stay for reasonable money to be here. It's a relatively new thing for us but get used to it.
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Old 08-17-2012   #43
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Default Re: Thoughts on Conner Barwin being expendable?

We cannot sign Barwin and Schaub. I wish we could but we can't blow up the team for 3 guys. If Schaub stays healthy all year and gets us 1-2 playoff wins then Barwin has to go. If Schaub doesn't stay healthy or doesn't get us a playoff win he may have to go although that's debatable. I think this team can still be great without Barwin but not without Schaub unless TJ made some big improvements which isn't impossible but is unlikely. We need the money from either Schaub or Barwin to resign Quinn McCain Dobbins Casey Jamison and Nolan. The good thing is 90% of those guys will take vet minimum but Casey Quinn and McCain will probably each ask for 1-3 million. Another Scenario is the rookie WRs look good as does Jared Crick and we can release Walter and Ninja which may mean we can keep the big three and some of the other starters/key backups.
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Old 08-17-2012   #44
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Default Re: Thoughts on Conner Barwin being expendable?

The thing with Barwin is he really only has one year under his belt, right? I mean, usually you expect a guy to perform for 2-3 years before inking a big extension. Id like to see what he can do this season against a little better competition before signing him to a big deal
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Old 08-17-2012   #45
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Default Re: Thoughts on Conner Barwin being expendable?

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
I look around the league and to be honest I don't see a great deal of player movement relative to the number of established "stars" out there. It's a balancing act and most teams eventually do lose somebody but you don't see a high-profile player leaving every team, every year do you?
Yeah, all the gnashing of teeth seems premature. There are teams around the league who spend two and three times as much money on a QB and still have other stars like say Manning, Wayne, Mathis and Freeny. Denver just paid enough to Manning to have Brown, Schaub and Barwin under contract.

As an example of the things teams do - folks keep talking about dumping Antonio. He is in the perfect position to restructure. He wants a last contract. He is a solid player. Sign his to an extension which dramatically cuts his cap hit.
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Old 08-17-2012   #46
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Default Re: Thoughts on Conner Barwin being expendable?

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Originally Posted by Quick II Draw View Post
There's just no way the Texans retain all starters with the amount of big name contracts expiring in in the next two years. About the only sure thing is Cushing--can anyone imagine a scenario where he isn't retained after 2013?

There are only 3 variables to consider in keeping a player:
(1) How important is that player to the team?
(2) How developed/ready is the depth behind him?
(3) Do you have enough $$$ to give him a contract?

Barwin seems about as least likely to walk for $$$ as any player I've seen. He's a goofball whose only car is a prius, rides his bicycle to work, and by all accounts lives a low-maintenance lifestyle. Unfortunately it's his agent that will be doing the negotiating. And if Mercilus/Brahman work out, we could be looking at a 3-man OLB rotation that only needs to find 1 more backup pass rusher.
.
Don't get fooled that alernative lifestyle guys don't want to get fair market value for their services. If he were willing to just taking an OK offer then he probabaly would have been done already. Not saying he will be a squeeze every nickle guy, but even that type of guy understands business is busines and I am betting that Barwin gets that.
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Old 08-17-2012   #47
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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Yeah, all the gnashing of teeth seems premature. There are teams around the league who spend two and three times as much money on a QB and still have other stars like say Manning, Wayne, Mathis and Freeny. Denver just paid enough to Manning to have Brown, Schaub and Barwin under contract.

As an example of the things teams do - folks keep talking about dumping Antonio. He is in the perfect position to restructure. He wants a last contract. He is a solid player. Sign his to an extension which dramatically cuts his cap hit.
Good post.
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Old 08-17-2012   #48
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Default Re: Thoughts on Conner Barwin being expendable?

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Yeah, all the gnashing of teeth seems premature. There are teams around the league who spend two and three times as much money on a QB and still have other stars like say Manning, Wayne, Mathis and Freeny. Denver just paid enough to Manning to have Brown, Schaub and Barwin under contract.

As an example of the things teams do - folks keep talking about dumping Antonio. He is in the perfect position to restructure. He wants a last contract. He is a solid player. Sign his to an extension which dramatically cuts his cap hit.
Enough to cover their contracts now or when they are re-upped ?! I really didnt pay attention to the PeyMeATon mess.


I could see a scenario where Antonio Smith was a cap casualty ... but only if he refused to restructure and it seems he's very happy in Houston , with the team in general and the defense. He's also one of the leaders on that side of the ball ... I find it hard to envision him leaving under those circumstances.
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Old 08-17-2012   #49
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Default Re: Thoughts on Conner Barwin being expendable?

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Might be tough letting the superbowl MVP walk.
Who says A.J. is going anywhere?
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Old 08-17-2012   #50
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Default Re: Thoughts on Conner Barwin being expendable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan View Post
Don't get fooled that alernative lifestyle guys don't want to get fair market value for their services. If he were willing to just taking an OK offer then he probabaly would have been done already. Not saying he will be a squeeze every nickle guy, but even that type of guy understands business is busines and I am betting that Barwin gets that.
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...Unfortunately it's his agent that will be doing the negotiating.
I'm not.
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Old 08-17-2012   #51
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Default Re: Thoughts on Conner Barwin being expendable?

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Barwin is a smart guy.

He is on a killer defense, and all he has to do is do what he does...and after this year's over, he can let his agents take bidders for his services in free agency 2013.

McClain, God love him and I know I just lost some street cred right here but oh well, old Johnny Pancakes tweeted that the Texans were trying to tackle contract extensions for Brown AND Barwin but that, according to McClain's wording, it was more hopeful to get one of those done and maybe not so good of a chance to get both of the deals done.

By the nature of things, Barwin (IMO) is going to want to see what he can get on the market. Just my hunch on it.
This is why Rick needs to do a full court press to sign Barwin before the season starts. He's a unique athlete, there aren't many people Barwins size that can run that fast on this planet. Plus there's no questioning his commitment to football. He's every bit the player that Clay Matthews is. IMO How much do you think the Packers would pay Barwin to play opposite Matthews?

Barwin if healthy is going to put up huge numbers in Wades defense. He's going to get MW $$$$. Because of his injury Rick can get Barwin at a fair price now. If he waits Barwin will probably be gone. Like MW only for more $$$$.

I have my doubts if Rick will sieze this opportunity. (Of course I have alot of doubts about Ricks abilities to judge talent) I could be wrong about this though.
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Old 08-17-2012   #52
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Default Re: Thoughts on Conner Barwin being expendable?

Barwin will not get Mario money, even if he gets 20 sacks this year.
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Old 08-17-2012   #53
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Default Re: Thoughts on Conner Barwin being expendable?

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Might be tough letting the superbowl MVP walk.
Not if you are convinced Yates can take you to playoffs and Matt decides he wants more from another team. That would be pretty easy actually. Also, if Yates is starter next season, with 2013 draft apparently deep on QBs you should get a pretty solid selection in first or second or maybe even 3rd. This also does not included what Keenum develops into. It could be Yates/Keenum and another late round pick to find the next TJ Yates.
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Old 08-17-2012   #54
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Default Re: Thoughts on Conner Barwin being expendable?

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Originally Posted by TheRealJoker View Post
It's a passing league these days. You need as many pass rushers as you can get. Just having two starter quality pass rushers wont cut it against the elite offenses nowadays. They will gas out and get beat in the 4th quarter. You have to have a 3 man rotation to make sure everyone is fresh when teams are throwing 40-50 passes per game.

Look at the success the Giants are having with 3 quality pass rushers.
Well we did pretty well last season with Barwin and Reed. No reason why Reed and Mercilus cannot do same. In fact I posted a mock saying Barwin would go in FA and we'd draft another OLB to go with Reed & Merci. Also predicted DB would extend.
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Old 08-17-2012   #55
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Default Re: Thoughts on Conner Barwin being expendable?

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Not if you are convinced Yates can take you to playoffs and Matt decides he wants more from another team. That would be pretty easy actually. Also, if Yates is starter next season, with 2013 draft apparently deep on QBs you should get a pretty solid selection in first or second or maybe even 3rd. This also does not included what Keenum develops into. It could be Yates/Keenum and another late round pick to find the next TJ Yates.
If Matt has a good season, stays healthy, and our team goes deep into the playoffs. He will be on our team next year.
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Old 08-17-2012   #56
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Default Re: Thoughts on Conner Barwin being expendable?

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If Matt has a good season, stays healthy, and our team goes deep into the playoffs. He will be on our team next year.
If Matt wants $12m he will not imo get it from Houston. How do you pay for it? Unless Barwin signs for an amazingly team friendly deal, I think Matt is on way out or they would not be negotiating now with Conner.
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Old 08-17-2012   #57
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Default Re: Thoughts on Conner Barwin being expendable?

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If Matt has a good season, stays healthy, and our team goes deep into the playoffs. He will be on our team next year.
If Matt wants $12m he will not imo get it from Houston. How do you pay for it? Unless Barwin signs for an amazingly team friendly deal, I think Matt is on way out or they would not be negotiating now with Conner.
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Old 08-17-2012   #58
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Default Re: Thoughts on Conner Barwin being expendable?

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Well we did pretty well last season with Barwin and Reed. No reason why Reed and Mercilus cannot do same. In fact I posted a mock saying Barwin would go in FA and we'd draft another OLB to go with Reed & Merci. Also predicted DB would extend.
Teams are not built on developing players, getting one or two years of production out of them and then having them walk. You want to pick wisely sign them for their first two contracts and then decide whether to let them go.

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If Matt wants $12m he will not imo get it from Houston. How do you pay for it? Unless Barwin signs for an amazingly team friendly deal, I think Matt is on way out or they would not be negotiating now with Conner.
Geez you are getting like GP with your crystal ball prognostications, just more terse. So they are trying to do a contract with Conner because they no longer want Matt?

Quote:
Not if you are convinced Yates can take you to playoffs and Matt decides he wants more from another team. That would be pretty easy actually. Also, if Yates is starter next season, with 2013 draft apparently deep on QBs you should get a pretty solid selection in first or second or maybe even 3rd. This also does not included what Keenum develops into. It could be Yates/Keenum and another late round pick to find the next TJ Yates.
Yeah 'cuz top QB's just drop out of the woodwork from later rounds. Top 10 last year on QB rating - 6 1sts, 1 2nd (1st pick of the 2nd), 1 3rd (Schaub), 1 6th (Brady) and one undrafted (Romo).

People are getting awful cavalier between a huge demonstrated talent gap between Schaub and Yates.

Frankly folks are getting way to giddy entirely talking about dumping key pieces of a team left and right after they have made the playoffs once while predicting they are going to go onto a dynasty of revolving talent.
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Old 08-17-2012   #59
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Default Re: Thoughts on Conner Barwin being expendable?

If it came down to it, I'd keep Barwin over Schaub. Use the money to extend Cush and have money left over for Watt. Build a ferocious menacing D(like Blitzberg, the Ravens, or the Giants of the past) and create a solid offense based on running the ball, short west coast style passes, and lots of TE play. Don't need a top 10 QB for that, just a top 20, and certainly Yates can be that.
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Old 08-17-2012   #60
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Default Re: Thoughts on Conner Barwin being expendable?

Mercilus is the key, he gives the Texans all kinds of leverage when dealing with
Barwin. If they work out something before the season starts (or during the season notwithstanding claims by the Texans they don't negotiate contracts during the regular season), it's going to be on very favorable terms for the organization.
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