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Old 05-27-2005   #21
throwANDREtheBALL
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Default Great Hands ?

The only Great Hands belong to Andre Johnson.

I keep hearing that its wrong to reach ?

I never said reach for anyone, trying to trade down anywhere in the 20-ish spots and take Chris Spencer would've been a great pick. plus in trading down would've brought us one or more picks.

AND if its wrong to reach.........how come every single writeup on the draft that I've read said that TJ was a reach ? Seriously, I haven't read one site or article, other than TEXANS.COM........that said it was a good pick. Don't get me wrong I hope TJ does a great job. But, if these hands that we are in are SO great, then why did USA TODAY SPORTS WEEKLY give our draft a D ?

"D - bad values across board"

"BEST PICK Vernand Morency"

"SECOND GUESSING:Already minus their second-rounder, the Texans got no help this year in trading down three slots in the first round, then they made a questionable selection in DT TRAVIS JOHNSON. Johnson was a one-year wonder at Florida State and probably could have been had later in the first round. He is not strong enough to play nose tackle in Houston's 3-4 defensive front and might not be quick enough to play end."

quoted from USA TODAY SPORTS WEEKLY

Now I don't agree with everything they say so lets see what Foxsports.com had to say

"Houston Texans draft - C+"
"The team sacrificed character for talent in a couple of cases. It didn't have great options in Round 1, and the selection of defensive tackle Travis Johnson reflected that."

quoted from Foxsports.com "Draft grades for every NFL team"

so again more neutral experts that took the time to bash our first selection

lets go to NFL.com

16 Houston Travis Johnson DT Florida State

"Pat Kirwan's Analysis
Travis Johnson is a bit of a surprise pick. I question his pass-rushing ability. He says he is great, but the numbers do not back it up -- some people consider him an underachiever. He will have to stay healthy and bring his game to the next level. More of a 4-3 tackler than a 3-4 end, but he does not lack confidence."

here's the link http://www.nfl.com/draft/analyzer

OK so if we're in such great hands I expect them to pick a great player with their first pick, if they are going to trade down, then address your most pressing need by drafting a center. AND if you are going to pick a DT that can rush the passer, then draft one who is at least known more for rushing the passer then he is for stopping the run.

And out of all the stuff I read on the draft the best grade I ever saw was a C+ I saw a couple D's some C's..............no B's

If we are in great hands, I want to at least get B's. AND I expect a great front office to get a guy that will start!

So when you say to me, the last thing we needed to do was start reaching in the first round..........well, that's exactly what we did.


P.S. I hope TJ proves the critics wrong and I'd also like to go on record that I liked the morency and mathis picks.........excellent value picks.
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Old 05-27-2005   #22
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I wouldn't put too much stock in post draft "grades". They are often more wrong than the teams who actually use real scouts to evaluate talent. Richard Seymour had 1.5 sacks in his Sr year...I bet you would have hated that pick too. Here is a nice 'draft grade' from 2001 to look at with some time as perspective....This one by Nationally known NFL writer Ron Borges
Quote:
D-
NEW ENGLAND - You hate to fail anybody who shows up for class but
what are they doing? If you didn't know better, you'd think the Jets sent
Bill Belichick north to destroy the Patriots from within. On a day when they
could have had impact players David Terrell or Koren Robinson or the
second-best tackle in the draft in Kenyatta Walker, they took Georgia
defensive tackle Richard Seymour, who had 1 sacks last season in the
pass-happy SEC and is too tall to play tackle at 6-6 and too slow to play
defensive end. This genius move was followed by trading out of a spot where
they could have gotten the last decent receiver in Robert Ferguson and
settled for tackle Matt Light, who will not help any time soon unless last
year's draftees Adrian Klemm and Greg Robinson-Randle are busts.
http://lists.rollanet.org/pipermail/...23/003626.html
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Old 05-27-2005   #23
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Default hahaha

That's good, your comparing TJ to Richard Seymour.

I like it, its really funny........hahahha

OK.........you win.

What was I thinking.
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Old 05-27-2005   #24
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No, what I am doing is showing you how flawed these instant draft grades are. You seem quite capable of understanding that point.
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Old 05-27-2005   #25
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Interesting note on that Draft Grade is now the Pats have Seymour and Terrell.

Thats why the Pats stay on top.
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Old 05-28-2005   #26
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Default

Point Taken.

But, usually for every 1 guy that they wrongfully bash, they are usually right with the other 5 guys.

So I'd say if all the "experts" are bashing him then he's got a 20% chance of becoming a star.

And to be fair, I agree with you that a lot of the "experts" are so good that they haven't made it as NFL scouts.

So I guess that gives him a 50% chance, just like all the Draft Prospects.

But, if my team was making the O-line "priority number one", I would've done what I had to do to get an offensive lineman or two on the first day of the draft.
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Old 05-28-2005   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by throwANDREtheBALL
But, I still hope your right and that Casserly is other-worldly, and he knows more than anyone when it comes to what to do in the first round, and TJ gets 8-10 sacks for the next 15 years..........or at least gives a pass rush that is better than the Gary-Seth-Robaire tandem.

I hope your right, but, I fear that you are not.
I like CC a lot. And I've posted over and over again my thoughts on the O-line. But if you guys remember, they made a choice with the very first pick. They chose the francise QB over moving down and building from the inside out. They chose the all world WR over moving down and building from the inside out. They chose to take a franchise CB instead of moving down and building from the inside out. CC was very lucky in Washington picking O-lineman. He's been very unlucky here. I just read where someone KNEW T. Bosselli
would never line up for us. As I remembered, no one Knew for sure untill the second year. Joppru is the same deal. Just unfortunte that it didn't work out. All the indicators were that BJ had the chance to be something special. And from what I saw this draft, their was no certain prospect to come in and beat out Wand. The top guy was a roll of the dice guy. I can't argue with the direction CC and Capers have taken the team. All of their first round picks have been solid in my book. I would have done a few things differently. And some of the things I would have done would have been just dead wrong. We got just as good a shot at going 12-4 this year at this point as going 4-12. But some of their gambles have to come through for them this year to get to 12-4. And the list is a long one, Babbin, Peek, Wand and or Shellton, Phillip Buchannan all have to step up their games. It's just that simple. The lines have to come around.The Green Bay - Texan's game was on again last week. 13-3 lead, ball on the fifty yard line...three and out. ON WAY that should ever happen. Never. That drive was our season last year. If Wand doesn't work out, if things do go poorly, we are in a great position, whomever the new brain trust is, to go after a great prospect at left tackel. There's a herd of them coming out for '06. Even Yoda could pick one. But the thing about that is Oakland took one of the better prospect coming out of college in a very long time, Robert Gallery . And he is still having trouble taking over at the LT position. It takes a very special big man to be that quick, that powerfull, to anchor the left side. Even the good ones it takes time. There are very few Paces and Odgens i the NFL. The good news is at least they're beating the bush, building fires under people to get a response. I'm not wooried about them moving Pitts all around, Pitts is just the two-by-four for the Mule. Now wether the wacking of Wand sinks in or not... time will tell. The preasuure is on. Either the lines are gonna make this season or the pipe will burst. We're rebuiolding a new o-line for '06. That's the bottom line with this group of players and coaches. And What I beilieve Mr. McNair has been saying publicly all off season. Sink or swim boys. A good try is no longer acceptable.
The one thing I fear for '05 is that the team does regreess, and we lose Carr mentally. I believe, IMHO, Jacksonville has passed us this off season. The Luck of the draw this year is catching them late. We'll see. We end up at the bottom of the barrel, I expect a regieme change.
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Old 05-30-2005   #28
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Default I wanted a C more than a T

"I would've taken Jammal Brown at 13 if I couldn't trade down. Cuz the O-line was supposed to be the top priority. I've stated on too many post how much Mckinney sucks..........that's why if I could've I would've traded down to 20ish and picked Chris Spencer he was rated the top lineman in the whole draft by a lot of scouts. AND Center was our biggest need. And from trading down would've picked up a couple 3rd round picks or a 2nd.....so getting Khalif Barnes would've given us a decent OT prospect as well."

quoted from what I said earlier in this thread.


I wanted a Center not a Tackle..........but, if the O-line really is priority number one they should've picked up any O-lineman on top of their board with one of their first day picks.

If the O-line isn't their top priority, so be it, but, don't tell me it is and then wait until the 5th round to take a lineman. And then wait in free agency and sign a sloth a.k.a. Victor Riley.
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Old 05-30-2005   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by throwANDREtheBALL
but, if the O-line really is priority number one they should've picked up any O-lineman on top of their board with one of their first day picks.
Look just because we need to upgrade our OL does not mean that the draft will be full of OL that will be All pro. Some years the draft is rich in Corners, other years Quaterbacks and some years lineman. We have to take players not positions. This is how teams build for the future. We all wish there would have been an Orlando Pace sitting there for us at pick 13 but this year there was only Alex Barron and I dont think he is the "answer" to anything. You dont get rich taking reach players it is far better to take sure bets in the first round. I am comfortable that that is what we have done.
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Old 05-30-2005   #30
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New England took Mankins in the 1st round. He was and is a LT and protected Carr when he played at Fresno. I'm really interested in seeing how he develops at NE. Some said he would play G in the NFL, but the guy always plays better than people think. I thought he was a sleeper and so did NE. Mankins was picked up because the NE head coach and FSU head coach are very close friends. I think NE got an inside view on Mankins. I still say our priority is defense 1st and that's because of Capers. Their were a lot of people out there that thought we would make some moves to fix the O-line, but nothing obvious transpired. The young Center might make a bigger splash than people think and we have a couple of young FA's that might come on. Is it likely, NO. But then again you never know. I've been realtively unimpressed with the older FA's so far.
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Old 05-30-2005   #31
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Mankins is listed as left Guard backing up Russ Hochstein for now. Matt Light will be the LT.
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Old 05-31-2005   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
Mankins is listed as left Guard backing up Russ Hochstein for now. Matt Light will be the LT.
Thanks, Vinny. It will be interesting to see how far he goes. As you tell us, nothing is certain in the NFL. It will be interesting how they bring him along as they do seem to have that luxury. He's quite smart and a very hard worker. I really expect him to challenge someone even as a Rookie.
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