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Old 08-20-2012   #161
Texn4life
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
After rewatching the SF game , gonna try this again - taking into consideration the input of a couple good posts in this thread.


Offense - 24
QB Schaub, Yates, Keenum
RB Foster, Tate, Grimes
FB Casey, Norris
TE Daniels, Graham
T Brown, Butler, Newton
G W.Smith, Caldwell, Brooks, S.Smith
C Myers, Jones
WR Johnson, Walter, Martin, Jean , Posey

Defense - 25
DE Smith, Watt, Jamison, Crick
NT Cody, Mitchell, Harris
OLB Barwin, Reed, Mercilus, Braman, Nading
ILB Cushing, James, Dobbins, Alexander
CB Joseph, Jackson, McCain, Harris, Carmichael
S Manning, Quin, Demps, Nolan

Special Teams - 4
LS Weeks
K Bullock
P Jones
PR/KR - Holliday


PUP List Hartmann, Sharpton
IR Stash

Practice Squad
Brock
Mondek
Loiseau
Williams
Fangupo
Jerrell Jackson (wr)
Pleasant
Meggett


Two changes from my last list -

Have Keenum making the final 53, dropping Brock, he's done nodda to earn it. Having Casey as the #1 FB #3 TE gives roster flexability.

Bumping Keo and replacing with Nading. His ST play earns him a roster spot. The other guy I considered was McManis. This will be a difficult decision as you could make an arguement for all three players. Just dont think you can have enough depth at the LB spots ....

There is always the option to place Keenum on the PS opening up another spot for a TE , ILB (Sharpton) or CB (McManis).
I like it, but McManis is going to be tough to leave off. I think we go with 6 Corners and Nading or Harris gets left off. Great job though!
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Old 08-20-2012   #162
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

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I like it, but McManis is going to be tough to leave off. I think we go with 6 Corners and Nading or Harris gets left off. Great job though!
Like i said , the debate between McManis and Nading is going to be a tough one. I just couldnt find a way to keep both. Nading is Marciano's guy on ST. Hard to envision him not making the cut.

Even if Keenum goes to the PS , what happens when Sharpton is ready to come off the PUP - someone has to go , who is it?! Maybe you dump Alexander in favor of Sharpton but he's also a good ST player.

I cant see Harris being left off .... would sure be a waste of a 2nd round pick. He has looked pretty good of late. I think he's a lock.

The cuts this year will include some very good players , they could easily make other rosters.
Kubiak has been known to cut guy's who he has no intention of keeping early , especially veterans , giving them the opportunity to catch on elsewhere ... Maybe we see a surprise cut in the first round of cuts that makes some of these decisions easier.

This is a far cry from figuring out who stays and who goes on an expansion team .... Im a happy fan.
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Old 08-20-2012   #163
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

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This is a far cry from figuring out who stays and who goes on an expansion team .... Im a happy fan.
You and me both. Its nice to know we're choosing between releasing good players and not scrubs. No one wanted the trash we released in our early years. We'll have a few players plucked from our cuts this year.
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Old 08-20-2012   #164
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

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And this is exactly why you don't know what you're talking about. When he said he wasn't a striker he meant that his blocking style was different from Lo Neal. LT played behind him for years and was used to him blowing guys up. Tolbert was a lot smaller, and used positioning more with his blocking. He did it well, but that's not what LT was used to. Running Back is an art and you get used to certain guys and how they block. He didn't prefer how Tolbert blocked. When you go from an all time FB to a guy like Tolbert there is a big difference. But anyone who watched the games still knew that Tolbert was playing well. His blocking style is similar to Casey's. Tolbert is a much better blocker, but he isn't gonna demolish guys like Lo Neal or Leach.
I've never heard that term used for a blocker. You would think that the term "striker" would imply someone who blows people up, not someone who uses positioning and leverage to block. Not the other way around. If I ever hear that term used that way again, I'll keep it in mind.

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Dude, and about Cruz listen to what you're saying. It doesn't make any sense. The coaches were too scared to cut him because they knew another team would snatch him up! Why? Because he balled in the preseason games. They knew because he played so well in the preseason that there was no way they could afford to let him sneak away. You're making my case for me. Practice will only show you so much. When the lights turn on that's what really matters.
This is the point...

It wasn't the COACHES who were afraid to cut him. The coaches were going to. The coaches thought he needed more time to develop. They'd already filed the paperwork with the GM to cut him.

It was the NON-COACHES who were part of the front office who didn't want him cut.

Quote:
You're normally pretty sane when it comes to your football takes, but you sound asinine with this one.
Dude. I'm always asinine. It's part of my charm.

Think about this for just a second.

Billick said that by the second preseason game, most coaches know 50 of their 53. That leaves 3 guys trying to play themselves onto the team. 3 guys. Per team. Per season.

That's 96 guys per year.

You've found a couple of cases.

Out of 96 cases per year.

So let's say Cruz and Tolbert played themselves onto their teams, so what?

Now think about a team we all know and love, the Texans. How many guys do we already KNOW are going to be on the team? Or did we know before this last game...

On the offense (18): Schaub, TJ, AJ, KW, Keshawn, Lestar, Devier, OD, Garrett, Casey, Chris Myers, Ben Jones, Caldwell, Wade Smith, Brandon Brooks, DB, Rashad Butler, Derek Newton.

On the defense (21): Watt, Antonio, Cody, Jamison, Crick, Mitchell, Reed, Barwin, Cushing, James, Mercilus, Braman, Alexander, Quin, Manning, Demps, Nolan, JJo, KJ, Harris, McCain.

On special teams (2): Weeks, Donnie. (I'm not sure if we should count the kicker's battle.)

From the rotations used, it looks like Dobbins and Sunny Harris are definitely in. Possibly Shelley Smith. That's 43 or 44 guys from the outside looking in. We fans don't know what they're planning or if they've already made up their minds about the QB situation, which FB to go with, which TEs and about Forsett/Grimes/Meggett.

What you're trying to tell me is that haven't already made their minds up on 6-7 guys more than I have even though they have a lot more data. I have to say I agree with Billick in this case. I think the coaches have most of the team already in place in their heads by this point.

* We can count Trindon as 1 of the 3 who's played his way on to the team, I think.
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Old 08-20-2012   #165
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

TPN put the bottle down. Like I said he said Tolbert wasn't a striker meaning he didn't blow people up. I really do respect your football knowledge so I'll chalk this one up to you having a momentary lapse of sanity. Nothing you're saying is making sense to me. You're saying that players can ball in practice and not apply it in games! If that makes sense to anyone then I think they need their heads examined. Coaches have to see guys perform when it counts. How many players have we heard about who looked good in practice but we never saw it in games? Dorin Dickerson ring a bell? Dude seriously, put the bottle down. I love your takes most of the time, but you're confusing me right now.
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Old 08-20-2012   #166
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

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Originally Posted by Texn4life View Post
TPN put the bottle down. Like I said he said Tolbert wasn't a striker meaning he didn't blow people up. I really do respect your football knowledge so I'll chalk this one up to you having a momentary lapse of sanity. Nothing you're saying is making sense to me. You're saying that players can ball in practice and not apply it in games! If that makes sense to anyone then I think they need their heads examined. Coaches have to see guys perform when it counts. How many players have we heard about who looked good in practice but we never saw it in games? Dorin Dickerson ring a bell? Dude seriously, put the bottle down. I love your takes most of the time, but you're confusing me right now.
Whenthe lights come on ... some people cant stand the pressure.

The things they learn / do in practice go out the window and they rely upon instinct .... that usually means a hole in the scheme that can be exploited.

I can tell you that from coachin pop warner ball ... you can teach all you want but when the lights go on ... sh!t happens.
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Old 08-20-2012   #167
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No way Harris gets cut.

Mcmannis is not that impressive as a cb, so I don't think he makes it.

I've always liked nading, so I hope he makes it, but I could see him being a casualty.

I think the competition between keo and demps will be one to watch.

I think demps has the edge and I'm not a huge keo fan, but be has looked better this pre season and he shows up on kick coverage.

Definitely going to be interesting to see what thy do with this roster.

I'll take a stab at a prediction:

Qb: Matt, Yates, Keenum
Rb: foster, Tate, grimes
Fb: Casey, norris
Wr: Aj, Walter, Martin, Jean, posey
TE: OD, Grahm
OT: brown, butler, newton
OG/C: meyers, jones, wade, Caldwell, Brooks, Shelley

DE: smith, watt, Jamison, crick
NT: Cody, Mitchell, Harris
ILB: Cush, James, mister, dobbins
OLB: barwin, reed, merciless, Braman, nading
CB: kjax, jjo, McCain, harris, Carmichael
S: manning, Quinn, Nolan, demps

LS: weeks
K: bullock
P: jones
KR: trindon


I don't feel confident with this roster prediction, but its about what I'd do.
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Old 08-20-2012   #168
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
No way Harris gets cut.

Mcmannis is not that impressive as a cb, so I don't think he makes it.

I've always liked nading, so I hope he makes it, but I could see him being a casualty.

I think the competition between keo and demps will be one to watch.

I think demps has the edge and I'm not a huge keo fan, but be has looked better this pre season and he shows up on kick coverage.

Definitely going to be interesting to see what thy do with this roster.

I'll take a stab at a prediction:

Qb: Matt, Yates, Keenum
Rb: foster, Tate, grimes
Fb: Casey, norris
Wr: Aj, Walter, Martin, Jean, posey
TE: OD, Grahm
OT: brown, butler, newton
OG/C: meyers, jones, wade, Caldwell, Brooks, Shelley

DE: smith, watt, Jamison, crick
NT: Cody, Mitchell, Harris
ILB: Cush, James, mister, dobbins
OLB: barwin, reed, merciless, Braman, nading
CB: kjax, jjo, McCain, harris, Carmichael
S: manning, Quinn, Nolan, demps

LS: weeks
K: bullock
P: jones
KR: trindon


I don't feel confident with this roster prediction, but its about what I'd do.
I could see that....... Maybe i'm the only one seeing potential in McManis. Sorrry for the criticism on Saturday as well. It was uncalled for.
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Old 08-20-2012   #169
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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
Whenthe lights come on ... some people cant stand the pressure.

The things they learn / do in practice go out the window and they rely upon instinct .... that usually means a hole in the scheme that can be exploited.

I can tell you that from coachin pop warner ball ... you can teach all you want but when the lights go on ... sh!t happens.
Exactly.

Also,

There is term called scout team hero or practice hero.

It means you look really good going game speed against guys going practice speed, but when other guys are out there going just as hard as you are you look like what you really are.
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Old 08-20-2012   #170
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post

I'll take a stab at a prediction:

Qb: Matt, Yates, Keenum
Rb: foster, Tate, grimes
Fb: Casey, norris
Wr: Aj, Walter, Martin, Jean, posey
TE: OD, Grahm
OT: brown, butler, newton
OG/C: meyers, jones, wade, Caldwell, Brooks, Shelley

DE: smith, watt, Jamison, crick
NT: Cody, Mitchell, Harris
ILB: Cush, James, mister, dobbins
OLB: barwin, reed, merciless, Braman, nading
CB: kjax, jjo, McCain, harris, Carmichael
S: manning, Quinn, Nolan, demps

LS: weeks
K: bullock
P: jones
KR: trindon


I don't feel confident with this roster prediction, but its about what I'd do.
Identical to my last list.
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Old 08-20-2012   #171
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I could see that....... Maybe i'm the only one seeing potential in McManis. Sorrry for the criticism on Saturday as well. It was uncalled for.
It's all good. I just lol'd and kept it moving.

As far as mcmannis goes, I'm not a fan. He's been here a while and I haven't seen anything of note that he's done.

I could see them keeping him since he has experience and hasn't totally sucked at any point but I also would not be shocked if he was let go.
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Old 08-20-2012   #172
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

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It's all good. I just lol'd and kept it moving.

As far as mcmannis goes, I'm not a fan. He's been here a while and I haven't seen anything of note that he's done.

I could see them keeping him since he has experience and hasn't totally sucked at any point but I also would not be shocked if he was let go.
I think I'm blinded by the first practice I saw him in his rookie year. He looked like a seasoned vet. I will say we have the luxury of having 2 backup safeties who cover very well. That could allow us to carry one less Corner.
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Old 08-20-2012   #173
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

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Exactly.

Also,

There is term called scout team hero or practice hero.

It means you look really good going game speed against guys going practice speed, but when other guys are out there going just as hard as you are you look like what you really are.
Exhibit A= Antwuan Peek
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Old 08-20-2012   #174
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

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Exhibit A= Antwuan Peek
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Old 08-20-2012   #175
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

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I could see that....... Maybe i'm the only one seeing potential in McManis. Sorrry for the criticism on Saturday as well. It was uncalled for.
I'm not seeing what I need to from McManis and wonder what you see I so not. Brandon Harris has looked very good. I think Carmichael keeps McManis off roster unless Ball gets cut.
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Old 08-20-2012   #176
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

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I'm not seeing what I need to from McManis and wonder what you see I so not. Brandon Harris has looked very good. I think Carmichael keeps McManis off roster unless Ball gets cut.
Man Ball is as good as gone .... He's the lovechild of Petey Faggins and Phillup Buchannon ...proficient in following a guy but never gets his head around which leads to all those penalties - EG Carolina.
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Old 08-20-2012   #177
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

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Exhibit A= Antwuan Peek
Damn I called him in the draft and he kept flashing and then no performance. Big whiff there.
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Old 08-21-2012   #178
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

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Exactly.

Also,

There is term called scout team hero or practice hero.

It means you look really good going game speed against guys going practice speed, but when other guys are out there going just as hard as you are you look like what you really are.
We're not talking Pop Warner here. We're not talking High School or College.

We're talking the Pros.

Guys who don't practice well, don't play on most squads. Simple fact. If you don't practice well, Kubiak will not play you. Guys with an Allen Iverson I-show-up-for-the-game mentality don't see the field in the NFL. Every year, there are guys that put up big stats in the pre-season games and they get cut, they bounce around from team to team.

There are rare guys who are able to come back from that and work their way up. But guys like Arian Foster, James Harrison, Priest Holmes, Rod Smith, Kurt Warner, Victor Cruz, those guys are the exception and not the rule. And they've got to learn to practice like pros. Even Arian has admitted it took him most of his first year to figure it out.

In the NFL, you make the team on the practice field by working hard, doing your job, and being consistent. You practice sloppy and blow up in the preseason games and you're still on the bubble looking at getting waived, just like Victor Cruz was, just like Gartrell Johnson was, just like Tyrell Sutton was, just like Armond Smith was.

This isn't college where you can dick around all week and then show up on Saturday and put on a show... unless you're Brett Favre and there aren't many of those in the league.
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Old 08-21-2012   #179
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Exhibit A= Antwuan Peek
Exhibit B = Jason Babin.
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Old 08-21-2012   #180
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We're not talking Pop Warner here. We're not talking High School or College.

We're talking the pros.
I don't think you understand.

It doesn't matter what level you are on. There is game speed, and there is practice speed.

NFL players will tell you that. As a matter if fact Duane brown and Chester Pitts mentioned it the other day about the difference between a vet in practice and the difference between a noob, or a guy trying to get noticed.

This has nothing to do with practicing well.

Have you ever played football at even a top highschool level? Serious question.

Because it's just a fact that guys are not out there going full go game speed. You practice hard. You get your work in.

But the game is just an entirely different level that you rarely reach in practice. I've had a couple of scout team guys trying to get noticed and thinking they were doing something. And then you turn it on for a few plays and baptize their ass and they realize what it is.

I can tell who has actually been around the game just from some of the little things like this conversation. And that's not a slight, it's just the truth.

And as a matter if fact I'd venture to say that as you go up in levels the practices overall become less "game like" as far as when you line up against teammates.

In pop Warner you are lining up and you'll knock the snot out of a guy if you get the chance just lime you'd hit an opponent on game day. Fast forward through middle school into high school and you aren't doing that as much. Go to a college practice and see it's even more rare.

Go to an NFL practice or talk to some NFL players and you probably don't see it at all.

Wr comes across the middle in pop warner some lb is going to crush him if he gets the chance.

Andre or OD run across the middle and who is going to hit them like it's game time? LOL, no one. Unless you want to get cut.

The higher in level you go you realize that you need to "play hard standing up".

You don't want to too often put in that extra effort you'd see on game day to take a guy to the ground.

That's why you hear high school, college and NFL coaches yelling "stay on your feet"! "stay off the ground"!!!

Because guys are not going game speed in practice generally. And like I said the guys that do are normally newbies or scrubs trying to get noticed and are often labeled "scout team heroes".
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