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Old 08-14-2012   #21
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Originally Posted by Wolf6151 View Post
I wonder if we could save a roster spot by teaching Ben Jones-C to do the long snapping.
Doubtful.

The texans love the long snappers consistency. He gets the ball back fast and accurately.

Plus if I'm not mistaken they just quietly re upped him.

The LS is here to stay.
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Old 08-14-2012   #22
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At this point, though, I think Beck's got a better control of the offense than Keenum. Keenum's going to have to kill it to make the 53. I expect him to go to the PS.
I need to see more from Keenum to make that connection. That would seem logical as beck is a vet and has played in a similar situation, but Keenum only threw 3 passes and connected on 2 of them for about 30 yards.

To me, beck looks like a wild horse out there.
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Old 08-14-2012   #23
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Keenum had other offers as an UDFA and chose the Texans.
I didn't see anyone other than us clamouring for Beck.

You only put Keenum on the practice squad if you think he can't play, because if you do -- he's gone..

TJ
I don't agree with that. I think udfa and late round qb's are among the least likely to get poached off of practice squads.

Not too many teams are going to take an undrafted qb they have to put on their 53 man roster that has not spent any time in their system and doesn't know anything about their playbook.
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Old 08-14-2012   #24
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

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I don't agree with that. I think udfa and late round qb's are among the least likely to get poached off of practice squads.

Not too many teams are going to take an undrafted qb they have to put on their 53 man roster that has not spent any time in their system and doesn't know anything about their playbook.
Well, he won't get poached to start, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Titans pick him up in week 3 so he can tell them all of our secrets on offense.
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Old 08-14-2012   #25
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Well, he won't get poached to start, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Titans pick him up in week 3 so he can tell them all of our secrets on offense.
All of our secrets?

The other day Yates said he spent his whole first year just trying to learn the playbook and he's still learning.

You think the titans are going to cut one of their guys to add an udfa qb that's only been here a few months to gain an upperhand in what makes us tick?

Case probably barely understands everything we do himself. Bruce Matthews probably knows more than he does about what we do.

Maybe they are dumb enough to do that. I dunno.

I think they'd be more likely to grab one of the rb's we cut.
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Old 08-14-2012   #26
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

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Doubtful.

The texans love the long snappers consistency. He gets the ball back fast and accurately.

Plus if I'm not mistaken they just quietly re upped him.

The LS is here to stay.
I agree - Weeks isnt going anywhere , they will carry three specialists not counting PR/KR with kicker , punter and long snapper. Trycycle is a wildcard at this point.



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I need to see more from Keenum to make that connection. That would seem logical as beck is a vet and has played in a similar situation, but Keenum only threw 3 passes and connected on 2 of them for about 30 yards.

To me, beck looks like a wild horse out there.
I dont think Beck makes the roster ... and Keenum will be on the PS unless he just blows it up. Neither bothers me much because Im comfortable with Schaub and Yates going forward , if they both go down ..... Keenum can just be brought back off the PS as I dont see a team signing him for the season - He did go undrafted and was seen as a system QB. I think he could be an NFL QB but the perception is what it is - system QB.

Also , he can do from the PS the same job he does while on the roster running the scout team and whatnot.



One of my biggest questions going forward is what they do with Hartmann once he is elegible .... Kubiak has raved about how well Donnie Jones has handled the holders job and he has been solid punting. That suspension could have cost Hartmann his roster spot.
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Old 08-14-2012   #27
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

Donnie Jones was alright against the Panthers. He had two punts for 45 yards from LOS to touchdown, and one that went out of bounds for 37 yards. 2/3 is OK, but the ~45 yard distance is what Coach Joe has always wanted in his punters. Turk was a solid ~42 yard guy when he didn't shank it off the side of his foot. Joe prefers to kick it about that far so the coverage team can get down there and tackle the return man before he can go anywhere, which is a conservative strategy. Nothing wrong with that, I expect Jones to be fine when the regular season comes.
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Old 08-14-2012   #28
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I need to see more from Keenum to make that connection. That would seem logical as beck is a vet and has played in a similar situation, but Keenum only threw 3 passes and connected on 2 of them for about 30 yards.

To me, beck looks like a wild horse out there.
His first pass was an incompletion and looked like he was just anxious.

The two completions were on the money and looked like a QB who was decisive and deadly accurate.

The way he sold the play action bootleg was, well...it was THE best sales job of play action I've ever seen. His balance, mobility, head movement as he swung around, it was perfect...and the blitzing defender fell for it hardcore.
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Old 08-14-2012   #29
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Beck is QB3 out of respect for him being a veteran out there. No way Kubiak would have Case over Beck.

But when cuts are made, I just think Kubiak knows that Case is a TJ Yates kind if QB.

I happen to think, and I know it's early, but I think Case is legit. I think he has the tools to be the guy here.
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Old 08-14-2012   #30
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

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His first pass was an incompletion and looked like he was just anxious.

The two completions were on the money and looked like a QB who was decisive and deadly accurate.

The way he sold the play action bootleg was, well...it was THE best sales job of play action I've ever seen. His balance, mobility, head movement as he swung around, it was perfect...and the blitzing defender fell for it hardcore.
Whenever anyone starts talking about a rookie QB giving the best play action fake EVAR, you can be pretty sure that they're over-reacting and possibly seeing the kid through rose-colored glasses. When you really, really want some guy to be great, it's easy to let your heart work its way into your eyes. And I think some of us are doing that with both TJ and Case.

They've both got the potential to be great QBs but they've both got a long way to go.

For me at this moment in time, Beck knows this offense better than Case does. He probably knows some of it better than TJ does because he's been in a variation of it for a few years now and has had more time in it. That doesn't mean he's a better QB than TJ or Case, just that he knows the offense. And with Kubiak, that means a helluva lot.

So if the season started right now, I think Kubiak would go with 3 QBs on the roster. He'd choose the 3 guys he thinks knows the offense best. He'd stash Case on the PS so he could get more time to work on his fundamentals and more time to learn the offense.
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Old 08-14-2012   #31
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

I thought Case played rather poorly, but then again I didn't go to U of H. He dropped back, what 7 times? Threw 3 times, ran it twice and got sacked twice. Both of his completions were less than 10 yards from the LOS. Nothing really compelling IMO. P-squad material, let him develop this year and give him a shot at the #3 spot next year.
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Old 08-14-2012   #32
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

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I thought Case played rather poorly, but then again I didn't go to U of H. He dropped back, what 7 times? Threw 3 times, ran it twice and got sacked twice. Both of his completions were less than 10 yards from the LOS. Nothing really compelling IMO. P-squad material, let him develop this year and give him a shot at the #3 spot next year.
yep, will wind up on p/s.
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Old 08-14-2012   #33
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So if the season started right now, I think Kubiak would go with 3 QBs on the roster. He'd choose the 3 guys he thinks knows the offense best. He'd stash Case on the PS so he could get more time to work on his fundamentals and more time to learn the offense.
I dint think any of that is a given.

Kubiak has gone with two qb's before. Matter of fact he went with two qb's when Matt got hurt if I'm not mistaken.

Also, kubiak didn't go with orvlosky over Yates last year and try to stash Yates on the practice squad. Basically he didn't go with the three guys that knew the system the best. He went with what he thought was the three best guys.

Last year leinart was Yates this year. The back up with some potential. Maybe could be really good in this system.

Orvlosky was beck. Knows the system. Good arm, but erratic. Vet player with a bumpy playing history.

And case is essentially Yates. Young guy with potential still learning, but probably has more upside than the guy currently sitting in third.

I wouldn't be shocked at all if kubiak went with Yates over beck. Or vice versa.
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Old 08-14-2012   #34
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

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Whenever anyone starts talking about a rookie QB giving the best play action fake EVAR, you can be pretty sure that they're over-reacting and possibly seeing the kid through rose-colored glasses. When you really, really want some guy to be great, it's easy to let your heart work its way into your eyes. And I think some of us are doing that with both TJ and Case.

They've both got the potential to be great QBs but they've both got a long way to go.

For me at this moment in time, Beck knows this offense better than Case does. He probably knows some of it better than TJ does because he's been in a variation of it for a few years now and has had more time in it. That doesn't mean he's a better QB than TJ or Case, just that he knows the offense. And with Kubiak, that means a helluva lot.

So if the season started right now, I think Kubiak would go with 3 QBs on the roster. He'd choose the 3 guys he thinks knows the offense best. He'd stash Case on the PS so he could get more time to work on his fundamentals and more time to learn the offense.
Eh...it's just a gut instinct. Nobody thought TJ Yates would be leading a scoring drive to win the AFC South, on the road at Cincy, either. And a playoff victory at home. And almost a trip to the Conference Title Game. TJ was on nobody's radar, not even here on this mb. And anybody who says so is lying. LOL.

TJ and Case are both very young guys. Case Keenum took snaps in his very first NFL game vs. the Panther and, dare I say, he looked better than a guy like Kevin Kolb has who might not even be the starter in Arizona in what is like his third year or so in the NFL.

Out of all four QBs we have, I would want to cut Beck the most. Might as well go with youth; with someone who is a clean slate instead of a journeyman QB.
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Old 08-14-2012   #35
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I thought Case played rather poorly, but then again I didn't go to U of H. He dropped back, what 7 times? Threw 3 times, ran it twice and got sacked twice. Both of his completions were less than 10 yards from the LOS. Nothing really compelling IMO. P-squad material, let him develop this year and give him a shot at the #3 spot next year.
Kubiak said that the protection was bad and he was running for his life out there.
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Old 08-14-2012   #36
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

Offense (25)
QB – Matt Schaub, TJ Yates, John Beck
RB – Arian Foster, Ben Tate, Justin Forsett
FB – James Casey, Moran Norris
TE – Owen Daniels, Garrett Graham
T – Duane Brown, Rashad Butler, Derek Newton
G – Wade Smith, Antoine Caldwell, Brandon Brooks, Shelley Smith
C – Chris Myers, Ben Jones
WR – Andre Johnson, Kevin Walter, Keshawn Martin, Lestar Jean, DeVier Posey, Trindon Holliday

Defense (25)
DE – Antonio Smith, JJ Watt, Tim Jamison, Jared Crick
NT – Shaun Cody, Earl Mitchell, Ra’Shon Harris
OLB – Conner Barwin, Brooks Reed, Whitney Mercilus, Bryan Braman
ILB – Brian Cushing, Bradie James, Tim Dobbins, Mister Alexander
CB – Johnathan Joseph, Kareem Jackson, Brice McCain, Brandon Harris, Roc Carmichael
S – Danieal Manning, Glover Quin, Quintin Demps, Troy Nolan, Shiloh Keo

Special Teams (3)
LS – Jon Weeks
K – Randy Bullock
P – Dahnte Jones
I think the undernoted strength of this team is how athletic they’ll be on special teams.

PUP List – Brett Hartmann, Darryl Sharpton (takes Keo’s spot upon return)
IR Stash – TBD

Practice Squad –
Case Keenum
Jonathan Grimes
Logan Brock
Nick Mondek
Jeff Maehl
Shawn Loiseau
Torri Williams
Hebron Fangupo
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Old 08-14-2012   #37
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

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Offense (25)
QB – Matt Schaub, TJ Yates, John Beck
RB – Arian Foster, Ben Tate, Justin Forsett
FB – James Casey, Moran Norris
TE – Owen Daniels, Garrett Graham
T – Duane Brown, Rashad Butler, Derek Newton
G – Wade Smith, Antoine Caldwell, Brandon Brooks, Shelley Smith
C – Chris Myers, Ben Jones
WR – Andre Johnson, Kevin Walter, Keshawn Martin, Lestar Jean, DeVier Posey, Trindon Holliday

Defense (25)
DE – Antonio Smith, JJ Watt, Tim Jamison, Jared Crick
NT – Shaun Cody, Earl Mitchell, Ra’Shon Harris
OLB – Conner Barwin, Brooks Reed, Whitney Mercilus, Bryan Braman
ILB – Brian Cushing, Bradie James, Tim Dobbins, Mister Alexander
CB – Johnathan Joseph, Kareem Jackson, Brice McCain, Brandon Harris, Roc Carmichael
S – Danieal Manning, Glover Quin, Quintin Demps, Troy Nolan, Shiloh Keo

Special Teams (3)
LS – Jon Weeks
K – Randy Bullock
P – Dahnte Jones
I think the undernoted strength of this team is how athletic they’ll be on special teams.

PUP List – Brett Hartmann, Darryl Sharpton (takes Keo’s spot upon return)
IR Stash – TBD

Practice Squad –
Case Keenum
Jonathan Grimes
Logan Brock
Nick Mondek
Jeff Maehl
Shawn Loiseau
Torri Williams
Hebron Fangupo
I can dig this. I'd like to see more of Roc Carmichael and Ra'Shon Harris before giving them spots. Presently, I'd lean towards McMannis over Roc. I think I'd probably drop Keo all together.
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Old 08-14-2012   #38
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

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Right now, I've got Beck ahead of Keenum.

Prior to TC, I said that Beck only gets on the 53 if Keenum either stinks it up OR Matt goes down.

At this point, though, I think Beck's got a better control of the offense than Keenum. Keenum's going to have to kill it to make the 53. I expect him to go to the PS.
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I tend to agree. I was trying to put my HC Kubiak hat on. I can see Case being the third as well but Kubiak stated he was pleased with the way Beck played. A couple of weeks from now we'll know. 2 1/2 weeks, tops.
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I'm not sure teams see him as having a high ceiling. He was'nt drafted. If some team has an injury or two at qb you don't go and get the undrafted rookie, you go after the mediocre backup with some experience.
I think Keenum can be stashed on the practice squad. Mainly for the same reasons he likely went undrafted: (a) He's not prototypical size for the position, (b) he is likely seen as a QB that put up big numbers because of the system and not his overwhelming talent, and (c) that "system" is a spread offense and NOT the classic NFL-type system. That means he'll need time to adjust.

...at least I hope that's what other teams are thinking
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Old 08-14-2012   #39
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

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Eh...it's just a gut instinct. Nobody thought TJ Yates would be leading a scoring drive to win the AFC South, on the road at Cincy, either. And a playoff victory at home. And almost a trip to the Conference Title Game. TJ was on nobody's radar, not even here on this mb. And anybody who says so is lying. LOL.

TJ and Case are both very young guys. Case Keenum took snaps in his very first NFL game vs. the Panther and, dare I say, he looked better than a guy like Kevin Kolb has who might not even be the starter in Arizona in what is like his third year or so in the NFL.

Out of all four QBs we have, I would want to cut Beck the most. Might as well go with youth; with someone who is a clean slate instead of a journeyman QB.
Uh, to the bolded, there were a few folks on this MB who thought he would do fine. I'm one of them. I stated several times that "I think some folks are going to be surprised".

And I ain't lying.
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Old 08-15-2012   #40
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

Reading the notes from today's presser, I think it's a lock Kubiak hangs on to Keenum. He's very high on the kid.
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