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Old 08-31-2012   #361
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

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I don't like what I see in Harris...to me, they should be looking at him hard.
I am pretty sure they give him at least another year Vinny. Don't we usually keep high rds draft choices for a few years to see if they develop.
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Old 08-31-2012   #362
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

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I am pretty sure they give him at least another year Vinny. Don't we usually keep high rds draft choices for a few years to see if they develop.
I agree, but watching Harris get lit up twice in that Aromashodu TD drive was maddening. Nolan didn't wrap up too well (on the Aromashodu TD) but Harris was the CB that let him run right by him. Harris looks awful and out of position or being run by too many times for my liking.
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Old 08-31-2012   #363
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I agree, but watching Harris get lit up twice in that Aromashodu TD drive was maddening. Nolan didn't wrap up too well (on the Aromashodu TD) but Harris was the CB that let him run right by him. Harris looks awful and out of position or being run by too many times for my liking.
Harris was in zone on that play.
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Old 08-31-2012   #364
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

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Harris was in zone on that play.
I could be mistaken but I'm watching it now and he's trailing Aromashodu like he is in man coverage. Even if he wasn't in man, he opens his hips too soon and plays poorly often.
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Old 08-31-2012   #365
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I could be mistaken but I'm watching it now and he's trailing Aromashodu like he is in man coverage. Even if he wasn't in man, he opens his hips too soon and plays poorly often.
Are you talking about the TD play where Troy Nolan tried to tackle the wr like a fish?

If so i think he was in zone there. He uses a shuffle technique and he let's the wr run by him and it looks like he bit up on a shallow route, but when he saw the ball was thrown he turned an ran.

I'm going off memory here, so I could be completely off. I need to watch it again.
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Old 08-31-2012   #366
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

CB is one of the difficult position to learn IMO and it's better off for a player to sit his first year and gradually give him enough reps to learn the position. So, I ain't sweating just yet. Besides, the last play of the game by Harris was good. Harris didn't have OTA last year. I will hold my judge on Harris for at least another year.
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Old 08-31-2012   #367
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

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I could be mistaken but I'm watching it now and he's trailing Aromashodu like he is in man coverage. Even if he wasn't in man, he opens his hips too soon and plays poorly often.
Looked like Zone to me at the time. I thought that was bad safety play.

I'm blaming Keo. Even if he wasn't on the field at the time, I'm sure it was his fault somehow.
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Old 08-31-2012   #368
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

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Looked like Zone to me at the time. I thought that was bad safety play.

I'm blaming Keo. Even if he wasn't on the field at the time, I'm sure it was his fault somehow.
Off memory that was my impression as well. Looked liked Harris dropped him off and started looking for an interior receiver closer to the LOS.
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Old 08-31-2012   #369
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
I agree, but watching Harris get lit up twice in that Aromashodu TD drive was maddening. Nolan didn't wrap up too well (on the Aromashodu TD) but Harris was the CB that let him run right by him. Harris looks awful and out of position or being run by too many times for my liking.
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I could be mistaken but I'm watching it now and he's trailing Aromashodu like he is in man coverage. Even if he wasn't in man, he opens his hips too soon and plays poorly often.
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Are you talking about the TD play where Troy Nolan tried to tackle the wr like a fish?

If so i think he was in zone there. He uses a shuffle technique and he let's the wr run by him and it looks like he bit up on a shallow route, but when he saw the ball was thrown he turned an ran.

I'm going off memory here, so I could be completely off. I need to watch it again.
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/201208...ghts&tab=recap

Looks like match man to me; everybody (except the single deep safety Nolan) has a man.

That was Harris all the way.
Of course, Nolan didn't help by missing that tackle, but the catch was on Harris.

Last edited by 76Texan; 08-31-2012 at 11:18 AM.
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Old 08-31-2012   #370
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

On Wright's 59-yd TD catch, IMO, it was also on Harris.


http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/201208...ghts&tab=recap

Even though it was zone, he needs to stretch it and get back.

He needs to read the #2 threat (the TE on his side).
Once he let the receiver gets a free outside release while the TE also gets upfield free in the middle, it's impossible for the Cover 2 safety to handle both threats.
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Old 08-31-2012   #371
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

On the 76yd TD run, it was a combination of a lot of things.

The WOLB (68 R. Moore, I believe) went too far into the backfield and lost his C gap.
The WDE (72 Hunter) didn't maintain his B gap assignment; he was taken to the A gap by the RB and couldn't recover.

The RCB Harris was the force man, and he lost the edge; he needed to turn the runner in and not let him go to the side line like that.

On top of that, Eddie Pleasant missed the tackle, and it didn't help Keo.

I think his poor angle was due to (at least in part) his expectation of what Harris and Pleasant were about to do.

I don't think I'm going to blame Pleasant too much though.
If Harris had kept to the outside, I think he would have helped Pleasant make that tackle.

And Keo, of course, has never been known for his speed (he ran a 4.74 at the combine and 4.66 at his pro day).

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/201208...ghts&tab=recap
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Old 08-31-2012   #372
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/201208...ghts&tab=recap

Looks like match man to me; everybody (except the single deep safety Nolan) has a man.

That was Harris all the way.
Of course, Nolan didn't help by missing that tackle, but the catch was on Harris.
Not even close to man coverage. Rey nailed it. Harris is in a slow shuffle and never even attempts to keep up with the WR. He's 10 yds behind and inside the WR looking toward the QB when the ball is thrown. He clearly was not attempting man coverage.
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Old 08-31-2012   #373
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

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Not even close to man coverage. Rey nailed it. Harris is in a slow shuffle and never even attempts to keep up with the WR. He's 10 yds behind and inside the WR looking toward the QB when the ball is thrown. He clearly was not attempting man coverage.
That could have been his mistake, though. He could have been playing zone when he was supposed to have been playing man. Just looking at Harris, it seems clear that he thought he was handing the WR off to the safety but he might not should have done that.

Looked like zone to me but I wasn't looking at what anyone else was doing on the play.
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Old 08-31-2012   #374
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

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That could have been his mistake, though. He could have been playing zone when he was supposed to have been playing man. Just looking at Harris, it seems clear that he thought he was handing the WR off to the safety but he might not should have done that.

Looked like zone to me but I wasn't looking at what anyone else was doing on the play.
To me, it certainly looks like Man in cover 2 (I confused myself a little bit earlier thinking it was single deep safety).

This lies very well within the match-man that Wade employs often (but not all the times).
It allows the underneath defenders to get a jump on the nearest guy.

Notice that on top of the screen, the LCB went deep with the outside receiver

To the inside, the dime back (Keo, I believe) followed the TE to the right flat.

The lone LB (Dobbins, I think) jumped on the RB out of the backfield.

At the bottom of the screen, the RCB (Ball) started on the wide out.
However, as the wide out and the slot receiver ran a pattern that cross each other, Ball dropped his man and followed the slot receiver to the side line.
In the meantime, Harris turned to run with the wide out who ran the inside route.

It's true that the receiver ran to the post on a cover 2 beater, and that the 2 safeties should converge better (especially Nolan).

However, as Harris was trailing to the inside, the receiver stemmed first toward the pylon, Nolan had to defend the corner route first.
The post route remains for Harris to care for.

That is how I see it.
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Old 08-31-2012   #375
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

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That could have been his mistake, though. He could have been playing zone when he was supposed to have been playing man. Just looking at Harris, it seems clear that he thought he was handing the WR off to the safety but he might not should have done that.
That is entirely possible.

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In the meantime, Harris turned to run with the wide out who ran the inside route.

That is how I see it.
Then you need to have your eyes checked. Harris does a slow shuffle. His shoulders and eyes are never turned up field until the ball is in the air. He's jogging sideways not even looking at the WR. He clearly was not trying to stay with the WR. I mean are you really claiming he was trying to stay with that WR in man and is so incompetent he never looks at him and can only run half his speed? Seems an add position since he hung in receivers hip pockets many times in the game.
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Old 08-31-2012   #376
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

So, ICAK, what kind of zone do you think the Texans were in?
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Old 08-31-2012   #377
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

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That is entirely possible.



Then you need to have your eyes checked. Harris does a slow shuffle. His shoulders and eyes are never turned up field until the ball is in the air. He's jogging sideways not even looking at the WR. He clearly was not trying to stay with the WR. I mean are you really claiming he was trying to stay with that WR in man and is so incompetent he never looks at him and can only run half his speed? Seems an add position since he hung in receivers hip pockets many times in the game.

Yeah it looks fairly obvious that he's playing zone there....
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Old 08-31-2012   #378
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

OK, let's do a process of elimination here.

1. If it was straight 5-2 zone, the LCB (on top of the screen) wouldn't drop deep that quickly, and the Dime Keo wouldn't drop out to the flat that far that quickly.

2. If it was a rotating cover 3, the LCB drops deep, but Demps needs to move to the middle; he didn't.

3. If it was cover 4 on the strong side, and cover 2 on the weak side (Harris' side), Demps would still have to move closer to the middle; he didn't.
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Old 08-31-2012   #379
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

You know, it is entirely possible that one of them didn't get the play call right and was doing the wrong assignment regardless of what the other 9 players were doing. I know they are professionals and all, but we're talking about 2nd and 3rd stringers here, they do make mistakes.
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Old 08-31-2012   #380
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Default Re: Your opening day 53 man roster prediction.

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OK, let's do a process of elimination here.

1. If it was straight 5-2 zone, the LCB (on top of the screen) wouldn't drop deep that quickly, and the Dime Keo wouldn't drop out to the flat that far that quickly.

2. If it was a rotating cover 3, the LCB drops deep, but Demps needs to move to the middle; he didn't.

3. If it was cover 4 on the strong side, and cover 2 on the weak side (Harris' side), Demps would still have to move closer to the middle; he didn't.
It looked to me as if they were playing a 2 deep quarter zone on that side of the field and Harris let the guy go too early looking at the inside reciever .... Keo never had a chance on the play as her was also looking at the inside reciever .... Harris guessed wrong and Keo was unable to recover.

The responsibility was likely Keo's being in the deep zone but with Harris letting him go too soon along with the verticle threat of the inside route ... I cant let either of them off the hook.


Dutch is probably right that they got their signals mixed up .... recievers dont generally get open by that margin otherwise.
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