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Old 08-12-2012   #121
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Default Re: 1st preseason evaluation

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
Homer spin? I was extremely impressed. Dude was more than "as advertised".
Perhaps.
But one must consider the competition when making one's evaluation. And the Colts did play a 2-14 team that looked like a 2-14 team.

I mean the other two Colt QBs went 11 of 14 for 135 yds. The Rams couldn't stop the third string.

Indy goes to Pittsburgh next Sunday night. And the Ones should go the whole first qtr instead of two series. If Luck fares well against the Steeler D, THEN I'll be impressed.
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Old 08-12-2012   #122
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Default Re: 1st preseason evaluation

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Originally Posted by rmartin65 View Post
I dont think they tanked. Just look at the team's roster- it sucked. Could they have won more games? Possibly. But the bounces did not go that way. Caldwell was actually a decent coach, setting a rookie coach record in wins his first year.

Someone has to come in last. It was the Colts last year. It just sucks for us because we go from seeing Manning twice a year forever, to seeing Luck (who, while just a rookie, looks hella good) twice a year forever. But **** happens.

That said, I am not saying that a lottery system is stupid. All I am saying is that it does screw legitimately bad teams, and it does not reduce accusations of tanking.
You're being naive if you think the Colts didn't tank. The roster just sucked? I can't even remember the name of the guy they put at QB for roughly 90% of the season. Orlovsky was the better QB but did they play him? Uh yeah, they did...against US! LOL. But that was after they had virtually locked down the #1 overall pick. Might as well start Orlovsky vs. the Texans that late in the season to try and stick it to us on the way to their #1 overall pick. And they DID. %$#&!

To say that the Colts owner did not throw in the towel to get Luck is borderline....well, I won't say it. It goes against common sense to think the Colts just happened to suck badly enough to get the best QB prospect since Peyton Manning was the best QB prospect. No coincidences in big boy life, my friend. None.

The Colts owner is a more quiet slime ball version of Bud Adams, IMO. He tanked. It takes more effort to prove he didn't, especially with Caldwell at HC and some random dude at QB all year long. That doesn't speak of a team trying to get better, does it? Well, sort of...getting better via becoming as bad as you can be in one single season.

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
Caldwell was a horrible head coach.. (and hell never be given that title again) just ask any Colts fan. He was spineless, had zero leadership, and stood on the sidelines with a deer in headlights expression for the entire season (ala 2005 Capers, but worse). He was so bad he got a HOF GM fired. The guy was just a figure head who was along for the ride and when Peyton went down the bus crashed in the ditch.
Exactly. There was ZERO moves made by the Colts to get better.

They had all off-season, knowing Manning was not going to be ready for 2011, and yet they put in some guy I cannot remember as QB. He was like a cross between Billy Joe Toliver and Jeff George but with the talent of Barney Fife. And throw in the superstar HC named Caldwell. LOL, it was awful. On purpose.

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Even if that is the case (I wont claim to be an expert on NFL coaching. Maybe decent was overselling him, but he was hardly the worst coach of all time), it is not like Caldwell was brought in to sink the Colts' season so they could land Luck. He had been the coach for 2 years, years where they made the playoffs. Their star player, the player they had built their team around, went down, and they sucked. It would happen to just about any team.
You give way too much grace to the Colts. In fact, IMO, you're underselling their ability to read the writing on the wall...to know when to bail on Manning and when to kick it into overdrive for the Suck For Luck campaign.

The owner calculated this. He's not just wringing his hands and saying "Well, by golly, if we suck we suck and we get Luck...but we are damn sure going to try and win every game we can!" LOL. It's farcical to think the Colts owner had not premeditated the move to be awful. He had THE perfect excuse to suck...by virtue of Manning's neck injury. The owner USED Manning the whole way as a smokescreen, always keeping it a mystery if Manning would be back in time or not. The whole Colts team was duped, led to believe that mayyyyybe Manning could return in time to lead one last charge for the AFC South title. I'm not imagining this, it's what was on all the media and all the shows. The Colts systematically did things, in a calculating manner, to ensure that the worst version they could field was put ONTO the field.

And it sticks in my craw. It should stick in every NFL fans' craw, too.

I wonder at what point some independent thinker has the balls to do a systematic and illustrative list of the tactics the Colts used in the Suck For Luck campaign? It'd make the perfect Grantland article, IMO.
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Old 08-12-2012   #123
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Default Re: 1st preseason evaluation

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Perhaps.
But one must consider the competition when making one's evaluation. And the Colts did play a 2-14 team that looked like a 2-14 team.

I mean the other two Colt QBs went 11 of 14 for 135 yds. The Rams couldn't stop the third string.

Indy goes to Pittsburgh next Sunday night. And the Ones should go the whole first qtr instead of two series. If Luck fares well against the Steeler D, THEN I'll be impressed.
It's pro ball now...Fisher threw some complex stuff at him early and he had some composure...off the chart composure with overload gaps and blitzes. Fisher loaded the box and he handled it like a seasoned pro with no panic and making excellent choices. Anyone critical of Luck today can only be using homerlogic if you ask me. Yeah the Rams couldn't stop the third string but it was the Rams third string also.
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Old 08-12-2012   #124
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Default Re: 1st preseason evaluation

Manning himself was either in on the gig, too, or he was also duped by the owner.

I want to think that Manning would be above such an unethical move by the owner, though. I think, honestly, that the owner even toyed with Manning and did/said things that he knew would string Manning along for as long as Manning could be strung along.

That one point, in the weeks leading up to when the Colts had to decide on keeping or cutting Manning...when The Foerhead got testy and said some hot-tempered things about the owner (via the media), and then he and the owner met and they sort of "worked out their differences" in private....I think THAT was when Manning knew he had been royally lied to.

There was a part of Manning that wanted to believe that he was on equal footing as Andre Luck and that there stood a chance the Colts would get Peyton back into the reg season and let him prove that he could stay as QB.

But after the end of the reg season, Peyton, IMO, knew he had been jobbed hardcore.

The Colts are dirty. They just do it a bit more under-the-radar, IMO.
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Old 08-12-2012   #125
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Default Re: 1st preseason evaluation

Vinny, did that make you feel better?
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Old 08-12-2012   #126
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Default Re: 1st preseason evaluation

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Perhaps.
But one must consider the competition when making one's evaluation. And the Colts did play a 2-14 team that looked like a 2-14 team.

I mean the other two Colt QBs went 11 of 14 for 135 yds. The Rams couldn't stop the third string.

Indy goes to Pittsburgh next Sunday night. And the Ones should go the whole first qtr instead of two series. If Luck fares well against the Steeler D, THEN I'll be impressed.
I think that's fair, too.

The Rams are awful, and WILL BE awful.

We returned a kickoff for a TD using Trindon Holliday...it's not like we're the world beaters in the area of kickoff returns. Sometimes, a person or a collection of persons has the breaks go their way.

If Luck spanks the Steelers and throws all over them in impressive form, I'll reevaluate my criticism of the Panic Button Squad. Right now, he was facing the Rams and the initial TD throw was a RB dump off that the RUNNING BACK took to the house on an awful Rams defense.

Looking at our boys in Steel Blue and Battle Red...I'd like to think they got the right stuff to make Luck look a little more human than the Rams did. Wade Phillips is no rookie d-coord. He will have the players on their toes for Andrew Luck. There will be lots of tape to go on.

Mark Sanchez looked like a beast, too, early on. Then the league figured him out. He hasn't been the same since. D-coordinators live for this. Especially SOB.
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Old 08-12-2012   #127
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Default Re: 1st preseason evaluation

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
It's pro ball now...Fisher threw some complex stuff at him early and he had some composure...off the chart composure with overload gaps and blitzes. Fisher loaded the box and he handled it like a seasoned pro with no panic and making excellent choices. Anyone critical of Luck today can only be using homerlogic if you ask me. Yeah the Rams couldn't stop the third string but it was the Rams third string also.
I don't recall saying anything "critical of Luck". I just said consider who they were up against. He certainly took advantage of a sucky defense, I'm not denying that. But I'm not going Ga-Ga over a middle screen where Brown did all the work (think about it, Luck's ball was in the air all of five yards on that 60+ yd TD). Now the second TD WAS impressive. Looked off the safety and threw a strike to Collie. BUT he had all day.

All I'm saying is let me see him do that to the Steelers then I'll be impressed.
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Old 08-12-2012   #128
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Default Re: 1st preseason evaluation

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Re: 1st preseason evaluation
I was completely off my game! I wasn't feeling well and my AC went out!!

Just turrible!!!!!!

.*EDIT*
I did make it to "the Colorado" which picked things up a bit!
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Old 08-12-2012   #129
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Default Re: 1st preseason evaluation

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I was completely off my game! I wasn't feeling well and my AC went out!!

Just turrible!!!!!!

.*EDIT*
I did make it to "the Colorado" which picked things up a bit!


Well, even a genius can have an off day.
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Old 08-12-2012   #130
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Default Re: 1st preseason evaluation

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You're being naive if you think the Colts didn't tank. The roster just sucked? I can't even remember the name of the guy they put at QB for roughly 90% of the season. Orlovsky was the better QB but did they play him? Uh yeah, they did...against US! LOL. But that was after they had virtually locked down the #1 overall pick. Might as well start Orlovsky vs. the Texans that late in the season to try and stick it to us on the way to their #1 overall pick. And they DID. %$#&!

To say that the Colts owner did not throw in the towel to get Luck is borderline....well, I won't say it. It goes against common sense to think the Colts just happened to suck badly enough to get the best QB prospect since Peyton Manning was the best QB prospect. No coincidences in big boy life, my friend. None.

The Colts owner is a more quiet slime ball version of Bud Adams, IMO. He tanked. It takes more effort to prove he didn't, especially with Caldwell at HC and some random dude at QB all year long. That doesn't speak of a team trying to get better, does it? Well, sort of...getting better via becoming as bad as you can be in one single season.



Exactly. There was ZERO moves made by the Colts to get better.

They had all off-season, knowing Manning was not going to be ready for 2011, and yet they put in some guy I cannot remember as QB. He was like a cross between Billy Joe Toliver and Jeff George but with the talent of Barney Fife. And throw in the superstar HC named Caldwell. LOL, it was awful. On purpose.




You give way too much grace to the Colts. In fact, IMO, you're underselling their ability to read the writing on the wall...to know when to bail on Manning and when to kick it into overdrive for the Suck For Luck campaign.

The owner calculated this. He's not just wringing his hands and saying "Well, by golly, if we suck we suck and we get Luck...but we are damn sure going to try and win every game we can!" LOL. It's farcical to think the Colts owner had not premeditated the move to be awful. He had THE perfect excuse to suck...by virtue of Manning's neck injury. The owner USED Manning the whole way as a smokescreen, always keeping it a mystery if Manning would be back in time or not. The whole Colts team was duped, led to believe that mayyyyybe Manning could return in time to lead one last charge for the AFC South title. I'm not imagining this, it's what was on all the media and all the shows. The Colts systematically did things, in a calculating manner, to ensure that the worst version they could field was put ONTO the field.

And it sticks in my craw. It should stick in every NFL fans' craw, too.

I wonder at what point some independent thinker has the balls to do a systematic and illustrative list of the tactics the Colts used in the Suck For Luck campaign? It'd make the perfect Grantland article, IMO.
It would of been tough to fire their coach after his first year going to the superbowl and then a narrow loss in the first round of the playoff's. Any team would of given Caldwell one year without Peyton to see what he could do. Although it was pretty obvious he would suck.
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Old 08-12-2012   #131
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Default Re: 1st preseason evaluation

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
I don't recall saying anything "critical of Luck". I just said consider who they were up against. He certainly took advantage of a sucky defense, I'm not denying that. But I'm not going Ga-Ga over a middle screen where Brown did all the work (think about it, Luck's ball was in the air all of five yards on that 60+ yd TD). Now the second TD WAS impressive. Looked off the safety and threw a strike to Collie. BUT he had all day.

All I'm saying is let me see him do that to the Steelers then I'll be impressed.
he would have had 3 td's if that long pass over the middle didn't end up on the 1 yard line. He also had a few passes dropped. Dude looked good, I ain't taking nuttin' away from him today....props to him. I envy the Colts.
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Old 08-12-2012   #132
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Default Re: 1st preseason evaluation

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
I don't recall saying anything "critical of Luck". I just said consider who they were up against. He certainly took advantage of a sucky defense, I'm not denying that. But I'm not going Ga-Ga over a middle screen where Brown did all the work (think about it, Luck's ball was in the air all of five yards on that 60+ yd TD). Now the second TD WAS impressive. Looked off the safety and threw a strike to Collie. BUT he had all day.

All I'm saying is let me see him do that to the Steelers then I'll be impressed.
His offensive line was'nt blocking very well the first couple of series. He did'nt have anytime at all. He managed not to do anything to hurt the team. He avoided a couple sacks, threw the ball away when he needed to. Then when he got a little bit of time he marched down the field 3 times against an nfl defense in his first game ever. Looked pretty good to me. This same colts offense scored more than 21 points 3 times last year without him. He led them to 21 points in the first half of his first nfl game.
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Old 08-12-2012   #133
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Default Re: 1st preseason evaluation

I always find it interesting how we can all watch same game and get different evals on players. More curious is why we have to get nasty and rude with each other.
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Old 08-12-2012   #134
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Default Re: 1st preseason evaluation

An interesting compilation of stats by Nick Scurfield.

Postgame notes
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Old 08-12-2012   #135
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Default Re: 1st preseason evaluation

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It's pro ball now...Fisher threw some complex stuff at him early and he had some composure...off the chart composure with overload gaps and blitzes. Fisher loaded the box and he handled it like a seasoned pro with no panic and making excellent choices. Anyone critical of Luck today can only be using homerlogic if you ask me. Yeah the Rams couldn't stop the third string but it was the Rams third string also.
I disagree if only to the extent that I think there's still room to wait and see on this. It's the Rams. Sure it's Jeff Fisher coaching the Rams but it's the Rams. Jeff Fisher may have thrown some complex stuff at him early but Jeff Fisher didn't magically turn their defense into something formidable. The people who have to execute that are just as "Week 1 of preseason" as Luck is and while he's a rookie, they were chicken crap last year. They didn't become chicken salad in one off-season.

Luck did very well this time out. I'll need to see him do it a few more times before I'm ready to anoint him the second coming of Peyton.
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Old 08-12-2012   #136
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Andrew luck is going to be a challenge when we play him.

Doesn't mean he's going to roast us, but Luck is going to be a very good player with potential to be great.

That kinda sucks but iiwii.
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Old 08-12-2012   #137
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Default Re: 1st preseason evaluation

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Don't be overly impressed.
Remember the Rams finished 2-14.
They were in the bottom half (22 I think) in total D, 25th against the pass, 27th or so in scoring D, and 31st against the run. They fired last year's D coordinator and hired Greg Williams ...and he probably won't see an NFL sideline again. Well, not as long as Sheriff Goodell is around.

I'd say the Colts & Luck went up against the equivalent of our 2s or 3s.
Obviously they upgraded at QB over what they had last year .... but Luck is no Peyton Manning.

The first TD was made possible by the blocking downfield , it was stellar - I could have scored on that one.

He did make some good throws but that Rams D was atrocious. A highschool team might give them a run for their money.

Luck might be a solid NFL QB but again , he aint no Peyton Manning .... He's closer to TJ Yates at this point.
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Old 08-12-2012   #138
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Default Re: 1st preseason evaluation

I guess the job is left to me once again:

Shelley Smith was an animal yesterday! He played most of the game at LG and was absolutely dominant throughout. Barring injury, I don't see how they can keep him off the field. He has to at least be the backup interior lineman on game days. The guy is very, very good.
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Old 08-12-2012   #139
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I guess the job is left to me once again:

Shelley Smith was an animal yesterday! He played most of the game at LG and was absolutely dominant throughout. Barring injury, I don't see how they can keep him off the field. He has to at least be the backup interior lineman on game days. The guy is very, very good.
I can't comment on it because I didn't watch him specifically.

But I hope he is the real deal.
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Old 08-13-2012   #140
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Default Re: 1st preseason evaluation

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You're being naive if you think the Colts didn't tank. The roster just sucked? I can't even remember the name of the guy they put at QB for roughly 90% of the season. Orlovsky was the better QB but did they play him? Uh yeah, they did...against US! LOL. But that was after they had virtually locked down the #1 overall pick. Might as well start Orlovsky vs. the Texans that late in the season to try and stick it to us on the way to their #1 overall pick. And they DID. %$#&!

To say that the Colts owner did not throw in the towel to get Luck is borderline....well, I won't say it. It goes against common sense to think the Colts just happened to suck badly enough to get the best QB prospect since Peyton Manning was the best QB prospect. No coincidences in big boy life, my friend. None.

The Colts owner is a more quiet slime ball version of Bud Adams, IMO. He tanked. It takes more effort to prove he didn't, especially with Caldwell at HC and some random dude at QB all year long. That doesn't speak of a team trying to get better, does it? Well, sort of...getting better via becoming as bad as you can be in one single season.



Exactly. There was ZERO moves made by the Colts to get better.

They had all off-season, knowing Manning was not going to be ready for 2011, and yet they put in some guy I cannot remember as QB. He was like a cross between Billy Joe Toliver and Jeff George but with the talent of Barney Fife. And throw in the superstar HC named Caldwell. LOL, it was awful. On purpose.



You give way too much grace to the Colts. In fact, IMO, you're underselling their ability to read the writing on the wall...to know when to bail on Manning and when to kick it into overdrive for the Suck For Luck campaign.

The owner calculated this. He's not just wringing his hands and saying "Well, by golly, if we suck we suck and we get Luck...but we are damn sure going to try and win every game we can!" LOL. It's farcical to think the Colts owner had not premeditated the move to be awful. He had THE perfect excuse to suck...by virtue of Manning's neck injury. The owner USED Manning the whole way as a smokescreen, always keeping it a mystery if Manning would be back in time or not. The whole Colts team was duped, led to believe that mayyyyybe Manning could return in time to lead one last charge for the AFC South title. I'm not imagining this, it's what was on all the media and all the shows. The Colts systematically did things, in a calculating manner, to ensure that the worst version they could field was put ONTO the field.

And it sticks in my craw. It should stick in every NFL fans' craw, too.

I wonder at what point some independent thinker has the balls to do a systematic and illustrative list of the tactics the Colts used in the Suck For Luck campaign? It'd make the perfect Grantland article, IMO.
You are upset they did not play Dan "runoutoftheendzoneforasafety" Orlovsky? Orlovsky at the time was a known quantity. Painter was (and still is) a young QB. They might as well see what he has.

As for Manning- he was not ruled out until Sept 7th. They thought he would be able to play this season. Now, was it a bad decision to have no contingency plan? Yep, but Manning had been an iron man thus far.

Could there have been a conspiracy? Yes. Is it likely? Nope. Everyone got fired. People would not willingly tank and jeopardize their careers. Now if the FO remained unchanged after such a season, that would be a red flag.
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