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Old 08-13-2012   #181
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Default Re: 1st preseason evaluation

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Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
Sorry don't get what you are trying to say here.
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Old 08-13-2012   #182
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Default Re: 1st preseason evaluation

I guess I'm saying that Butler can be average or slightly below average and we cans still be a top 10 offensive line.
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Old 08-13-2012   #183
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Default Re: 1st preseason evaluation

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Can we please discuss the Colts in the NFL forum?

On the Schaub interception, I chalk that up to a well timed CB blitz that the Carolina D made a play with. Sometimes you can't help it if the defense makes a good play.

What I really wanted to see out of Schaub was how much zip was on his passes, if his mechanics were any different and if he was less mobile than before. Honestly he looked like the same old guy, just with a lot of time missing since last we saw him. There was some mental rust but I think physically he looked pretty decent. Hoping the Doc can come in and give his analysis on if he was favoring a foot while throwing or if his balance looked off or if there were any indicators that Doc could pick up on that us normies can't.
Truthfully, it was very difficult to make any real conclusions. On virtually every play, he remained in the pocket, close to where the ball was snapped, hardly moving, and releasing the balls quickly. There was only one play that I saw where he ran back unobstructed to his right (mostly straight line) while most of the rest of the O ran left. He had one defender in wide open space coming at him, with multiple open receivers reported. Yet he did not seem to, or want to kick out and make an early sharp change in direction to give himself a little extra time and space to find his receiver. Can't determine intent in terms of rust vs. inability to move quickly enough. Will need to see him in more rollout/bootleg scenarios, and specifically in fierce rush situations.
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Old 08-13-2012   #184
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Default Re: 1st preseason evaluation

I think Schaub gained confidence and another week of healing. On to game 2.
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Old 08-13-2012   #185
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Truthfully, it was very difficult to make any real conclusions. On virtually every play, he remained in the pocket, close to where the ball was snapped, hardly moving, and releasing the balls quickly. There was only one play that I saw where he ran back unobstructed to his right (mostly straight line) while most of the rest of the O ran left. He had one defender in wide open space coming at him, with multiple open receivers reported. Yet he did not seem to, or want to kick out and make an early sharp change in direction to give himself a little extra time and space to find his receiver. Can't determine intent in terms of rust vs. inability to move quickly enough. Will need to see him in more rollout/bootleg scenarios, and specifically in fierce rush situations.
To me it looked like he didn't want to or couldn't make any sudden movements.

I could be wrong, but it looks like to me he has even less maneuverability to buy extra time.

He's never been mr speedy speed, but in the past it seemed like he would atleast try to buy extra seconds before succumbing to the rush.

Maybe I'm just seeing things or maybe it's not his inability to do it as much as his reluctance to. But I'm with you...I need to see more to pin point exactly what it is I'm seeing with him.

I didn't think he looked rusty mentally at all. Seemed very sharp in knowing where to go with the ball and I think he saw the blitz well, but as I noted I think something is not quite right physically.
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Old 08-13-2012   #186
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I finally watched the game. I have never been a Butler fan and will be surprised if he is on the roster the whole season. Brown at LT, Newton at RT and Gardner at Swing.

Butler's doing the Charleston when he needs to be doing the Tango. His footwork is lousy, with a lack of balance taking away any strength,that he may have.

Gardner makes this team IMO - good feet and can get to the ground.

Brooks fits in nicely, his ability to get his body going showed in getting to the second level and pulling.
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Old 08-13-2012   #187
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I finally watched the game. I have never been a Butler fan and will be surprised if he is on the roster the whole season. Brown at LT, Newton at RT and Gardner at Swing.

Butler's doing the Charleston when he needs to be doing the Tango. His footwork is lousy, with a lack of balance taking away any strength,that he may have.

Gardner makes this team IMO - good feet and can get to the ground.

Brooks fits in nicely, his ability to get his body going showed in getting to the second level and pulling.
I haven't rewatched the game but I need to so I can rewind and watch individual o linemen.

Interesting takes to say the least.
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Old 08-13-2012   #188
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Default Re: 1st preseason evaluation

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I finally watched the game. I have never been a Butler fan and will be surprised if he is on the roster the whole season. Brown at LT, Newton at RT and Gardner at Swing.
A very strong statement. Butler definitely looks like a guy who hasn't played in a year. But, I'd be surprised if Kubiak rolled the dice on Newton and Gardner, without Butler as a fallback. Not very Kubiak-esque.
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Old 08-13-2012   #189
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Default Re: 1st preseason evaluation

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A very strong statement. Butler definitely looks like a guy who hasn't played in a year. But, I'd be surprised if Kubiak rolled the dice on Newton and Gardner, without Butler as a fallback. Not very Kubiak-esque.
It was one game, but for me Butler was consistent from past years.

We are such a better team today. But I am extremely concerned about the RT position, especially if Butler is in the mix.
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Old 08-14-2012   #190
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Default Re: 1st preseason evaluation

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It was one game, but for me Butler was consistent from past years.

We are such a better team today. But I am extremely concerned about the RT position, especially if Butler is in the mix.
Didn't they pay him a pretty decent contract for a swing tackle a year ago? Our line seemed to hold up fine when Brown was suspended. Do you really think he'd get cut?

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Old 08-14-2012   #191
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Default Re: 1st preseason evaluation

Posted this on another site, so I'll just post this here.


Watched the entire game last night and thought I'd share my thoughts on our players.

Connor Barwin and Brooks Reed are still playing great. Whitney Mercilus and Bryan Braman are going to be great backups. Mercilus had a 1.5 sack and Bryan Braman had a sack, but he was all over Derek Anderson in every passing plays. Braman was a nice surprise player that went undrafted, and don't be surprised if he gets more playing this season. I don't think we'll miss a beat at pass rush, even if Barwin and Reed gets injured, although I'd prefer if they didn't.
Tim Dobbins is a beast as well, he isn't afraid to get in the OL's way and make a stop. Also had 1.5 sack. I like him a lot better than Bradie James, but I'm not sure how well Dobbins can cover. Need to see more of both. Mister Alexander didn't stand out, but that can be both good or bad.

I hope Alan Ball keep playing as bad as he did because I was impressed with Brandon Harris. Harris had his receivers on shut down and had a big goal line stop. Kareem looks a LOT better, almost had an interception but he wasn't letting Cam Newton throw all over him. Our CBs should be Joseph - Jackson - McCain - Harris. If KJ keeps improving, nobody is going to have an easy time passing on us with, especially along with our pass rush. Our safeties are going to be excellent too, Danieal Manning and Glover Quin are the most underrated starting safeties in the league, and I hope it stays that way. Troy Nolan and Quintin Demps are great backups to go with that as well, they had good plays in Saturdays game. Sherrick McManis wasn't as bad as everyone on here made him out to be, he only had one "holding" call and gave up one pass I believe, but other than that he was good.

Our DL will be great again, Tim Jamison proved that he can played with our starters if JJ Watt or Antonio Smith is ever hurt. Good Solid DE. Not sure if Jared Crick played but I don't remember seeing him.


I'm really impressed with Martin, he's as good as everyone been saying. James Casey can play, and I'm looking forward to him this season along with Garrett Graham, who also had a good game. Lestar Jean finally showed me he can play and hopefully he'll keep playing as well as he did Saturday. I'd like to see him get the ball more tho. Trindon Holliday was ****ing awesome on kick returns, not just his TD return but he had 2-3 other nice returns. I'm hoping for him to be our starter at KR.

Was impressed with TJ Yates, John Beck didn't play bad either, and Schaub threw an interception that was both the tackles fault. Rashad Butler didn't see the cornerback blitz and he had a free hit on Schaub while Derek Newton got destroyed by his man and he had a free hit on Schaub as well, but Schaub needs to throw that away or take the sack. We're going to be Duane Brown back and get him back ASAP if we want Schaub healthy.

Forsett was decent, had one dumb play but other than that I'm satisfied with him as our third string RB. 50/50 on Grimes, he doesn't have any cutting abilities, he's just a train. He had a TD, but I don't see him making the team. He'll probably end up on the PS along with Meggett, who IMO is a rookie version of Slaton, just needs some experiences IMO. #40 FB, was very good IMO. Seems like every time he was in there with Forsett, we ended up with a 4+ yards average. Was impressed by him.

I think that's it. Looking forward to the Niners game next week. I think Andre will be back and maybe Duane Brown? Cant remember how long Brown is out for, but we're going to need him.
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Old 08-14-2012   #192
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Default Re: 1st preseason evaluation

Brown played in the Carolina game.
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Old 08-14-2012   #193
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Didn't they pay him a pretty decent contract for a swing tackle a year ago? Our line seemed to hold up fine when Brown was suspended. Do you really think he'd get cut?
I believe it is the final year of his contract. We have quality all over the line and are looking two deep at each position, save for RT.

I am not saying cut, but would not be surprised to see him waived. The team can do better in the short and long term.
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Old 08-14-2012   #194
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Default Re: 1st preseason evaluation

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I believe it is the final year of his contract. We have quality all over the line and are looking two deep at each position, save for RT.

I am not saying cut, but would not be surprised to see him waived. The team can do better in the short and long term.
Butler is a better LT than he is @ RT. His value is higher because of that (teams always need depth @ blindside protection). Texans will not overpay to keep him but will most likely offer a fair & reasonable extension next off-season @ least until Mondek is ready who looks ideal to be Texans future swing tackle.
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Old 08-14-2012   #195
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Butler is a better LT than he is @ RT. His value is higher because of that (teams always need depth @ blindside protection). Texans will not overpay to keep him but will most likely offer a fair & reasonable extension next off-season @ least until Mondek is ready who looks ideal to be Texans future swing tackle.
What are your observations on Gardner?
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Old 08-14-2012   #196
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Default Re: 1st preseason evaluation

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Butler is a better LT than he is @ RT. His value is higher because of that (teams always need depth @ blindside protection). Texans will not overpay to keep him but will most likely offer a fair & reasonable extension next off-season @ least until Mondek is ready who looks ideal to be Texans future swing tackle.
This is what I was going to post. He did too well replacing Brown and we should keep Butler until end of season, minimum. Coming back from injury & new position earns him rest of preseason before much panic on my part.
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Old 08-14-2012   #197
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Default Re: 1st preseason evaluation

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Well for starters on the Schaub INT, the DE ran right past him and had a direct hit on Schaub. On the other side of that play, Brown tied up his DE just fine, but a CB blitz came around his edge to sandwich Schaub. I don't think Butler even touched his guy before he got to Schaub.

On the Foster fumble play, he completely whiffed on his cut block. That forced Foster more towards the left side so he could avoid the guy Butler missed. Not saying the fumble was Butler's fault, but it's obvious where the O-line was making the lane and he didn't help.

Several of the early runs on the goalline failed because the right side collapsed. It was pretty obvious that this is going to be a problem down the road for us.

He looked below average to me, but I also don't think we have any better tackles on the roster.
1. On the INT, it was Newton who got beat.
BUTLER was not in the line-up.

2. The cut block on Foster's fumble was not good, but it wasn't terrible.
Afterall, Foster did gain some nine yards on the play.
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Old 08-14-2012   #198
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Default Re: 1st preseason evaluation

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I am not saying cut, but would not be surprised to see him waived. The team can do better in the short and long term.
What is the distinction between waived and cut?
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Old 08-14-2012   #199
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Default Re: 1st preseason evaluation

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1. On the INT, it was Newton who got beat.
BUTLER was not in the line-up.

2. The cut block on Foster's fumble was not good, but it wasn't terrible.
Afterall, Foster did gain some nine yards on the play.
Oh was it? Missed that thanks.
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Old 08-14-2012   #200
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Default Re: 1st preseason evaluation

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What is the distinction between waived and cut?
It depends on whether the player is a vested veteran or not but it's effectively the same thing for the team getting rid of the player.

For the player, it's a very different thing. If you're a vested veteran and you're cut, you're free to sign with whoever you want. If you're not a vested veteran and you're cut, teams can place a claim on you. The teams get priority based on their previous year's record. So a player gets cut and a 2-14 team and a 14-2 team places a claim on him, the 2-14 team gets the player.
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