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Old 05-22-2005   #1
Ibar_Harry
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Default Did you know this about David's contract!

Found this in ESPN's Len Pas article on the Horse Collar Tackle.

David Carr of Houston, the top overall choice in the 2002 draft, has reached performance levels that allow him to trigger a "void" in his contract, which temporarily means he is entering the final season of his deal. Temporarily because the Texans have the option of "buying back" the three voided years, with an $8 million bonus, and will definitely exercise that right.
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Old 05-22-2005   #2
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Ibar, I don't speak legal, what does that mean?

BTW.,...I know A LOT of people give you crap about your post. I think your dead on with a lot of your points of views....To man people have their Texans blinders on though....Keep up the good post
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Old 05-22-2005   #3
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What he means is the Texans will probably buy out the 3 remaining years of his contract, and then sign him to another long term deal that will be back loaded on the cap. This way they can save themselfs some cap space, if they are smart they will try and get the same kind of deal going this time around . This way, everyone stays happy, David gets large chunks of money, plus nice yearly salaries, and the Texans stay out of cap trouble.
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Old 05-22-2005   #4
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This is c/p from houstonprofootball.com at the bottom of the unoffical salary cap page.

* David Carr is in the option year of his rookie contract. If the option is exercised, Carr's contract extends through 2008 and he is due a pro-rateable $8,000,000 bonus. Base salaries for the next three years would be $5.25 million in 2006 and 2007 and $6 million in 2008.

I read that as the Texans can choose to keep or release David after this year. If they choose to keep him it will cost the Texans 8,000,000. I look at it as signing bonus on a three year contract that was already negotiated four years ago. I also read that as David's only option is to take the money or hold out if he doesn't want to be here or doesn't think 13.25 in 2006 is enough money.
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Old 05-22-2005   #5
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Most of have known about this since 2002
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Old 05-22-2005   #6
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Did you know this about David's contract!
Yes.

The details of his contract were first reported in the Houston Chronicle on April 20, 2002 and have been discussed here many times since.

I keep these words handy because this has come up so often:

Carr's contract has the "potential" to go 7 years but 2005 is an option year. That means his contract will expire at the end of the 2005 season if the Texans do not exercise one of two buyback options, (either a two-year or a three-year buy back). This is what's called voidable years.

If the Texans exercise the two year option, Carr will receive a bonus of $5.5 million upon signing and base salaries in '06 and '07 of $5 million and $5.25 million respectively.

If the Texans choose the three year option (to fully exercise the 7 year deal), Carr will receive a bonus of $8 million upon signing and bases of $5.25 million in '06 and '07 and $6 million in '08.

Gaffney had the same exact clause in his contract and his final three years have been voided as well.

I'm not sure what the exact performance levels were in Carr and Gaffney's case but they are usually not difficult to meet if you become a regular player In other words, this was already planned for three years ago.

Last edited by aj.; 05-22-2005 at 01:24 PM.
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Old 05-22-2005   #7
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Originally Posted by aj.
If the Texans choose the three year option (to fully exercise the 7 year deal), Carr will receive a bonus of $8 million upon signing and bases of $5.25 million in '06 and '07 and $6 million in '08.
This would basically be a 3 year $24.5 million contract. Don't you think the Texans would offer Carr a longer term deal with more money up front (& smaller yearly salaries), thus making the contract more cap friendly?
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Old 05-22-2005   #8
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They can do whatever they want as long as both sides agree. Those figures are what was in the initial terms and conditions back in '02 (according to the Chronicle and ESPN).
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Old 05-22-2005   #9
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Originally Posted by aj.
They can do whatever they want as long as both sides agree. Those figures are what was in the initial terms and conditions back in '02 (according to the Chronicle and ESPN).
Yeah, I know. I was asking for your opinion.
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Old 05-22-2005   #10
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I don't think many have been talking about this being David's last year. You have to wonder a little with the lack of O-line protection, taking a beating every game he plays, and the abuse his family took in the stands last year, you just have to wonder what might be going through his mind. I would also add he is very much a family man whose oldest son now has a medical problem. I think this is a pivatol year for the Texans in a lot of respects and I hope it is a good one. Do we go forward or backward this year? I have no reason to believe David will not remain a Texan, but I could see a very frustrating year making him change his mind.
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Old 05-22-2005   #11
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Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
I don't think many have been talking about this being David's last year.

I have no reason to believe David will not remain a Texan, but I could see a very frustrating year making him change his mind.
Well, you haven't seen anyone talking about it because it isn't his last year. It is the teams choice to evoke the 8 mil bonus or release his last years.....not David's.
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Old 05-22-2005   #12
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Originally Posted by Vinny
Well, you haven't seen anyone talking about it because it isn't his last year. It is the teams choice to evoke the 8 mil bonus or release his last years.....not David's.
But it could be couldn't it Vinny. Its like last year when I was questioning how well Glenn was doing and being lambasted. Strange what a difference a few months make. Actually, given the kind of offense the Texans want to run I could actually see them not renewing David's contract and carrying on with Ragone. They would save a lot of cap space and could pursue some more defensive players. Remember, as so many of you want to say, its a business. I could see David holding out, but that's not really his style. We are into the 4th year and what can David say he has really accomplished? Well, he's set records for being beaten up. Great achievement isn't it. I really do question the clubs desire to protect David and why they drafted him. His strenth is his ability to pass not hand the ball off to a back. David never has been a great play faker. All I'm saying is David, so far has not been a great match for what this ball club wants to do. I'm hoping that this year will be different and there are some reasons to be optomistic, but we will just have to wait and see.
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Old 05-22-2005   #13
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Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
...Actually, given the kind of offense the Texans want to run I could actually see them not renewing David's contract and carrying on with Ragone...
Oh, come on! "The Texans" boils down to Bob McNair. Do you "actually" think McNair would let the face of his franchise leave over an $8 million bonus? Get real.
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Old 05-22-2005   #14
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Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
But it could be couldn't it Vinny. Its like last year when I was questioning how well Glenn was doing and being lambasted. Strange what a difference a few months make. Actually, given the kind of offense the Texans want to run I could actually see them not renewing David's contract and carrying on with Ragone. They would save a lot of cap space and could pursue some more defensive players. Remember, as so many of you want to say, its a business. I could see David holding out, but that's not really his style. We are into the 4th year and what can David say he has really accomplished? Well, he's set records for being beaten up. Great achievement isn't it. I really do question the clubs desire to protect David and why they drafted him. His strenth is his ability to pass not hand the ball off to a back. David never has been a great play faker. All I'm saying is David, so far has not been a great match for what this ball club wants to do. I'm hoping that this year will be different and there are some reasons to be optomistic, but we will just have to wait and see.
Ibar, you say some pretty ridiculous things on a regular basis but this takes the cake. The team has zero interest in changing QB's....And Carr holding out? For what? I think I will go back to not responding to you. Your posture on this is just absurd.
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Old 05-22-2005   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caddy
I've long thought you two were ghosts... and this post of
patting each other for you lack on knowledge make me mad
that I didn't bet on it. Oh, well I put an extra bet on the Over
7.5 wins this to make up for it..
I hope your bet pays off. As much as you may think not, I really am a Texans fan. In fact my fondest dreams would be to see them in the SB. However, I'm very frustrated with what I think are very obvious problems particularly with the coaching ranks. Again, you obviously feel differently and that's your right. I post as who I am and I post under only 1 name. I guess some of you can not believe there are other people out there with different opinions on how the Texans are doing. In particular Palmer should have been gone a long time ago. I would have loved to see Sam here rather than at Buffalo as he would be a good opposite to work with Capers. It will be interesting to see how Buffalo's QB performs under his tuitoring. I still say the best QB coach out there is Tedford at Cal. He is a QB's coach and has been very successful at it despite what people say. Just look at how many are in the NFL that have been under his wing. I don't think any other coach has as many in the NFL at the present time. I think it reads somewhat like Carr, Dilfer, Volick, Boiler, Harrington and the young man at GB. He's done it at a lot of different programs. Anyway, once again good luck on your bet.
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Old 05-22-2005   #16
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You know the greatest thing that could happen this year is that the line problems are solved and the team comes together and makes the playoffs and gets to the SB. Could that happen? Would I be happy? Yes, and all of you would be saying I told you so and I could care less, because I would also be very happy. In reality, however, I simply think its not in the cards unless would do something that somehow changes and ultimately brings the O-line together. We have a lot of weapons that are simply under utilized because of the O-line. Capers does not focus on it because he's a defensive coach. AGAIN, I HOPE THEY PROVE ME WRONG, BECAUSE I WOULD BE DELIROUS WITH JOY.
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Old 05-22-2005   #17
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BECAUSE I WOULD BE DELIROUS WITH JOY.
Kinda like when you were on the ESPN boards predicting we win the Super Bowl in 2002 because we drafted your local boy Carr, huh?
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Old 05-22-2005   #18
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Yes, Vinny I have watched David play and I have an idea on what he can and can not do. I think he also has a lot of talent which if used in the right way could be very productive in the NFL. I think from some of your posts you don't feel the same way about Carr. I continue to say that Carr will not show his abilities nor can he show them until he has an O-line that gives him half a chance. In one of the other threads people were commenting on the Minnissota game as being perhaps his best and of course they mentioned he had time to throw in that game. Amazingly we almost came from behind and won the ball game. David's game is passing and he does it well when protected. Its kind of amazing that I said this year in a thread that I didn't think things were right with Glenn and it wasn't I don't believe a half hour later he was going to be given his release. I said last year before the season started the Texans had been hurt badly by injuries the preceeding year and that Glenn was not what he was. I was castigated for these comments at the time and they were correct. I still maintain there is a lot of talent on this ball club that is not being used in the best way possible and that includes AJ. It is time for this ball club to come together and produce and the comments "if they would only execute no longer hold water".
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Old 05-22-2005   #19
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Ibar, this is the NFL. One guy can't win it all and it takes some time to field a team to compete in the NFL on an ongoing basis. We need 22 quality starters and an equal amount of back ups. From you proclaiming us the Super Bowl favorites in 2002 to now...you don't show much understanding of the NFL.
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Old 05-22-2005   #20
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Your right Vinny its not about 1 man. I have continued to state with an O-line protecting him, as a team, we could accomplish a lot more than we are. I have stated what I think is clear, obvious, and quite detailed. Fix the O-line and this ball club may go somewhere with People like David, AJ and DD. Don't fix the O-line and we go nowhere. People say David has happy feet, he doesn't trust his receivers, he doesn't do his reads. You know what the guy is running for his life 90% of the time. That does not lead to a productive NFL offense.
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