Death to Google Ads! Texans Talk Tip Jar! 🍺😎👍
Thanks for your support!

NFL easing up on TV Blackout Rules

I

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Professional football, America's most popular and profitable sport, is preparing to tackle a glaring weakness: Stadiums are increasingly empty.

As part of sweeping changes designed to give teams more flexibility to fill their seats, the National Football League is watering down its controversial TV "blackout" rule, which restricts local broadcasts for games that aren't sellouts. And this season, for the first time, fans in the stadium will be able to watch the same instant replays the referees see during reviews of controversial calls.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303561504577495083707417526.html
 
Only thing that's going to solve that problem for the league is prices dropping, and I won't promise even then that the increase in butts-in-seats would actually mean more revenue.

The money involved is BEYOND RIDICULOUS, and that includes ticket prices.

Sorry, I don't have an answer. My answer is television and NFL Rewind, which I love. It works for me. I don't pay for concussions and life-long knee and back issues, because I can't afford it and I don't buy things I can't afford.
 
The black out rule is ridiculous and counter productive. IMO if the average fan is not seeing the home team on TV they are probably not going to follow that team as much, hence not going to have the desire to go to the games.

I didn't become an Oilers fan as a kid until they started being on TV all of the time (when Earl arrived). Before that I didn't know or care much about them.

Here the Bucs are advertising free parking and half priced concessions (not including beer) for the opening game to get people to come. The economy in this part of Florida, especially the Tampa Bay area is really depressed.

So according to this article the league will lift the blackout if 85% of the seats are sold. IMO that is fair however I agree that they should make the games more affordable (and there is no reason why they can't do that considering most of their money comes from broadcasting deals).

As a kid the Bucs were my other favorite team besides the Oilers so it would be nice to have them on TV here as an option. According to the article the Bucs averaged 86% so I assume with this new rule they will not be blacked out anymore.
 
HJam72 said:
Only thing that's going to solve that problem for the league is prices dropping, and I won't promise even then that the increase in butts-in-seats would actually mean more revenue.

The money involved is BEYOND RIDICULOUS, and that includes ticket prices.
Click to expand...

I have seats I absolutely love and I have to say I have started to question keeping them. It is $400 for me to walk in the door each weekend. I originally signed up to have a family experience I never had. Now it isn't a family experience because the only people around you are companies.
 
Not just seats, how about merch sales? More people will want more swag with the more football they see.

Blackouts are the NFL basically crossing their arms, stamping their feet and pouting. They should do away with them completely. As fun as it is to see the Jags stadium tarped up, it would be even better to have a serious fan base to be rivals with.
 
infantrycak said:
I have seats I absolutely love and I have to say I have started to question keeping them. It is $400 for me to walk in the door each weekend. I originally signed up to have a family experience I never had. Now it isn't a family experience because the only people around you are companies.
Click to expand...

Same here Chris! Just don't know how much longer I can afford it, now that I'm retired. I LOVE live football, tailgating, seeing all my friends on gameday, feeling the emotions and sharing the excitement of 70+ thousand fans in the same building, watching our boys run through that tunnel, high fiving and hugging my seatmates, regardless of who they are, meeting new fans every gameday, and just enjoying my favorite sport with other fans. It's getting tough, and it breaks my heart just thinking I might have to give it all up. BUT, I see that day coming and there's not a damn thing I can do about it. This game I love has become a game for the wealthy, and that leaves me OUT!!
 
TimeKiller said:
As fun as it is to see the Jags stadium tarped up, it would be even better to have a serious fan base to be rivals with.
Click to expand...

jags.gif


I never thought I would find myself defending the Jags however here goes. Living in central Florida I have now driven through Jax several times. One thing that I have noticed on the highways there are a lot of cars sporting Jags stickers, plates, etc.

Looking at last year's attendance records from that article I was very surprised by the Jags numbers. The Jags averaged 62,331. Just compare that to other teams.

The Jags have higher attendance than many other teams including the Chicago Bears. Granted the Bears stadium is smaller and sold out however the facts are there are typically more fans at a Jags game than a Bears game.

Another surprising fact is the Jags are only averaging 600 and change less than the Steelers in attendance. Unlike the Bears, Heinz Field can hold more because they were not at full capacity according to that chart. This and the Steelers have a huge following nationally. I see more more Steelers stuff on cars around here than any other NFL team including the locals (Bucs, Jags, Dolphins).

Speaking of the Dolphins and Bucs, the Jags are topping both of those teams in ticket sales. So of all 3 NFL teams in Florida the Jags are #1 in ticket sales.

As for the infamous tarps. That stadium is huge and was built with college football crowds in mind. I don't know what the capacity is without the tarps, however with the tarps covering huge sections the official capacity it still at 67,164 according to that chart. That is more than 11 other NFL stadiums which include stadiums of the Bears, Raiders, Colts, Vikings, Lions, Cardinals, Steelers, Bengals, Bucs, Rams, and Seahawks.

I know we like busting on the Jags saying they don't deserve a team, etc. However the facts show otherwise. That all being said I still hate the team, however they are clearly supported up there.
 
Wow. They think fans aren't going because the NFL stadium experience hasn't improved? I doubt having wireless in every stadium, being able to listen to on-field mics, and allowing PA announcers to speak on 3rd downs is going to get people to fill the seats. What a joke by the NFL. They're just turning their heads and ignoring the obvious. Ticket prices are too damn high!

The optimist in me says owners will realize this and actually do something about it when more and more teams can't sell out their games, but I'm not so sure. Who care about all that extra stuff? It still doesn't justify the cost of pricing out your average NFL fan from the stadium.
 
If the Texans couldn't sell out games, and the blackout rule continued on, I'd never see them play except on replay broadcasts. There is no way in hell I am I spending the kind of money the NFL wants these days for those damn tickets. I had season tickets for the Oilers and the Gamblers, and loved it. As a percentage of my paycheck, the tickets were less expensive back then and I made much less than I do now.

Todays NFL is overpriced. But, for those who do spend the money, you have my heartfelt thanks for keeping them on TV. :clap:

And I still have some ticket stubs from a few Gambler games. In fact, I have a few full tickets that weren't used and are in excellent full condition. I keep hoping they might be worth something someday.
 
Nothing to do with blackouts, just didn't want to start a thread.

Ticker on the bottom of NFL network today (Sat) says Goodell has sent a memo to all 32 teams laying out ground rules for team relocation to LA and that re-location could take place as soon as 2013 season.

So I guess this could relate to blackouts after all. Buy the damn tickets or we will re-locate your team.

:coffee:
 
cuppacoffee said:
Nothing to do with blackouts, just didn't want to start a thread.

Ticker on the bottom of NFL network today (Sat) says Goodell has sent a memo to all 32 teams laying out ground rules for team relocation to LA and that re-location could take place as soon as 2013 season.

So I guess this could relate to blackouts after all. Buy the damn tickets or we will re-locate your team.

:coffee:
Click to expand...

The NFL can't forceably relocate a team without the owners consent. That being said, I can't imagine an owner who isn't selling a lot of tickets being against moving the team. LA is a good market.
 
Thorn said:
The NFL can't forceably relocate a team without the owners consent. That being said, I can't imagine an owner who isn't selling a lot of tickets being against moving the team. LA is a good market.
Click to expand...



After what I have wintessed this past week I have come to the conclusion that some people can can force anything they want, with minimal consent.

I was under the impression that NFL tickets were a hard sell in LA.

Only thing going for LA was the TV market.


:coffee:
 
Thorn said:
The NFL can't forceably relocate a team without the owners consent. That being said, I can't imagine an owner who isn't selling a lot of tickets being against moving the team. LA is a good market.
Click to expand...


Meat market........NOT football market. Professional football has repeatedly failed since the 1940's.........and will fail again. The NFL will not only lose half their butt on this one due to "disinterest" by the fan base, but they will lose their other cheek because they will now have lost their blackmail levarage control over many of the teams they have kept hostage over the years.
 
SheTexan said:
Same here Chris! Just don't know how much longer I can afford it, now that I'm retired. I LOVE live football, tailgating, seeing all my friends on gameday, feeling the emotions and sharing the excitement of 70+ thousand fans in the same building, watching our boys run through that tunnel, high fiving and hugging my seatmates, regardless of who they are, meeting new fans every gameday, and just enjoying my favorite sport with other fans. It's getting tough, and it breaks my heart just thinking I might have to give it all up. BUT, I see that day coming and there's not a damn thing I can do about it. This game I love has become a game for the wealthy, and that leaves me OUT!!
Click to expand...

The gameday experience is bar none and what keeps me going.

Gonna go off on a tangent here. I used to take a lot of business relations and a much broader definition of friend than I do now. I became very disenchanted with how people are ungrateful. I just handed you $200 in tickets and you don't even think to buy me a beer or a hot dog? I gave a pair of our tickets to Cowboys fans whose daughter was in the hospital (the dad had been staying with her for almost a month) for a pre-season game and it happened to be the father's birthday (we won) and they have sent us Christmas cards ever since. Wonderful couple (and the little girl is healthy and happy). Now I only take serious football fans.

CloakNNNdagger said:
Meat market........NOT football market. Professional football has repeatedly failed since the 1940's.........and will fail again. The NFL will not only lose half their butt on this one due to "disinterest" by the fan base, but they will lose their other cheek because they will now have lost their blackmail levarage control over many of the teams they have kept hostage over the years.
Click to expand...

I have two uncles and their families out in LA and you're right. The NFL is fascinated by the TV market but the folks just don't care. If anything they will go watch the University for Spoiled Children (sorry Brian) or UCLA.
 
Just in case no one has heard, Goodell and the NFL has made it a requirement that any new stadium to be built in L.A. must be able to accomodate TWO teams. This has been made in anticipation of teams made up of combinations of two existing teams, two expansion teams or one existing team with one expansion team. L.A. has never been able to support ONE team...........:chef:
 
SheTexan said:
Same here Chris! Just don't know how much longer I can afford it, now that I'm retired. I LOVE live football, tailgating, seeing all my friends on gameday, feeling the emotions and sharing the excitement of 70+ thousand fans in the same building, watching our boys run through that tunnel, high fiving and hugging my seatmates, regardless of who they are, meeting new fans every gameday, and just enjoying my favorite sport with other fans. It's getting tough, and it breaks my heart just thinking I might have to give it all up. BUT, I see that day coming and there's not a damn thing I can do about it. This game I love has become a game for the wealthy, and that leaves me OUT!!
Click to expand...

I feel your pain, Gma! You know I had to give up my season tickets when baby girl was born. I miss the hustle and bustle of going to all the games, but I have to admit that I greatly enjoy having both my young'uns on my lap in my easy chair. I know these will be memories that my kids will have when they are adults and watching football with my grandkids.

You can always do what Jungle Bob and I are doing: commit to at least one regular season game a season, and then save up to ensure that you go to every playoff game at Reliant! I don't care what it costs, but playoff games are worth every penny. Awesome experience with lifelong memories.

infantrycak said:
The gameday experience is bar none and what keeps me going.

Gonna go off on a tangent here. I used to take a lot of business relations and a much broader definition of friend than I do now. I became very disenchanted with how people are ungrateful. I just handed you $200 in tickets and you don't even think to buy me a beer or a hot dog? I gave a pair of our tickets to Cowboys fans whose daughter was in the hospital (the dad had been staying with her for almost a month) for a pre-season game and it happened to be the father's birthday (we won) and they have sent us Christmas cards ever since. Wonderful couple (and the little girl is healthy and happy). Now I only take serious football fans.
Click to expand...

That's just common etiquette that is being ignored, IMO. Like the Seinfeld episode of the day-after-thank-you call. Take care of the generous offer by at least buying some drink and grub. It seems like common sense.

I have been very fortunate to receive game invites, and I sincerely hope that I left a good impression on all my benefactors. If not, my bad.
 
infantrycak said:
I have seats I absolutely love and I have to say I have started to question keeping them. It is $400 for me to walk in the door each weekend. I originally signed up to have a family experience I never had. Now it isn't a family experience because the only people around you are companies.
Click to expand...
It's less for me (with only 2 seats to boot), but ~$250 Game with parking.

SheTexan said:
Same here Chris! Just don't know how much longer I can afford it, now that I'm retired. I LOVE live football, tailgating, seeing all my friends on gameday, feeling the emotions and sharing the excitement of 70+ thousand fans in the same building, watching our boys run through that tunnel, high fiving and hugging my seatmates, regardless of who they are, meeting new fans every gameday, and just enjoying my favorite sport with other fans. It's getting tough, and it breaks my heart just thinking I might have to give it all up. BUT, I see that day coming and there's not a damn thing I can do about it. This game I love has become a game for the wealthy, and that leaves me OUT!!
Click to expand...
With two little ones to suck up funds, I see that day approaching for me as well. Heck, as much as I enjoyed the playoff game, it was D**N expensive to pay for with Xmas in the mix.

Fortuantely, at least for now, I'll continue to enjoy tailgating with my extended-family in the Blue Crew and my fellow crazies in the Bull Pen!
 
Here is more on this from Tampa Bay http://www.tampabay.com/sports/foot...es-might-benefit-tampa-bay-buccaneers/1238186

According to this article the Bucs have started reducing ticket prices ..

Prices on 80 percent of seats have been reduced, with other prices remaining flat for a fourth consecutive season. Some of the discounts were steep; select lower-level end zone seats, which last season were priced at $89, are now $75 per game on season-ticket plans.
Click to expand...

While the Texans have been selling out they should at least stop raising prices each season. As already evidenced here they are going to lose diehard fans going to the games because of their greediness.
 
Hookem Horns said:
Here is more on this from Tampa Bay http://www.tampabay.com/sports/foot...es-might-benefit-tampa-bay-buccaneers/1238186

According to this article the Bucs have started reducing ticket prices ..

While the Texans have been selling out they should at least stop raising prices each season. As already evidenced here they are going to lose diehard fans going to the games because of their greediness.
Click to expand...

A lot of folks will look at $14 and think what's that to complain about. Well if you have four seats it is almost $600. On top of that fans rather than companies don't get to write their tickets off as a business expense.

Double Barrel said:
That's just common etiquette that is being ignored, IMO. Like the Seinfeld episode of the day-after-thank-you call. Take care of the generous offer by at least buying some drink and grub. It seems like common sense.
Click to expand...

You would think but as they say apparently common sense ain't very common.

Edit directed to anyone - how extensive are the corporate seats around you? We have within talking distance two couples both of which have had seats from the beginning. Everything else is corporate.
 
infantrycak said:
A lot of folks will look at $14 and think what's that to complain about. Well if you have four seats it is almost $600. On top of that fans rather than companies don't get to write their tickets off as a business expense.
Click to expand...


From a book review of "Field of Schemes." Although it is written 2 years ago and about baseball, it still holds very true to our discussion as to what we see today in the NFL. A book worth reading......if you have no blood pressure problems.

April 06, 2010

Tax-deductible seats and the juicing of ticket prices

Just noticed the op-ed in yesterday's New York Times arguing that the tax deductibility of luxury boxes has ruined baseball:

Over the last two decades, the average ticket price for a Chicago Cubs game has increased 265 percent, more than four times the inflation rate. Add in parking, concessions and souvenirs, and a family trip to one of this week's opening day games could easily cost a few hundred dollars.

There are many reasons for the price explosion, but a critical factor has been the ability of businesses to write off tickets as entertainment expenses - essentially a huge, and wholly unnecessary, government subsidy.

These deductions have led to higher ticket prices in two ways. On the demand side, they have fueled competition for scarce seats, with business taxpayers bidding in part with dollars they save through the deductions.

On the supply side, the large number of businesses bidding for expensive seats has driven the expansion of luxury skyboxes and a reduction in overall seats in new ballparks.
Click to expand...

It's an issue I've raised before, and Joanna and I noted it way back in the first edition of our book. The deductibility of sports tickets has bounced around a bit - it's currently at 50% of the face value of tickets - but it remains a huge incentive for corporations to pay more than they otherwise would for tickets, driving up prices overall - and helping spur teams to demand new stadiums with more luxury seating that they can sell to the artifically inflated corporate market.

The op-ed authors, Duke law professor Richard Schmalbeck and Rutgers business professor Jay Soled, argue that while it would be ideal to eliminate the business-entertainment deduction for sports tickets entirely, probably a more feasible reform would be to cap the deduction at $50 per seat. That wouldn't end the juicing of ticket prices, but it would at least blunt it somewhat.
Click to expand...

From the book jacket:

"Are you a sports fan distraught over your home team's move to another city? Or someone whose city has just lured a team to your home turf with a brand new stadium? Or maybe you don't follow sports, but as a taxpayer are outraged over cutbacks in school funding and other services."--BOOK JACKET. "Forget about the false tales of "welfare queens" who supposedly rode around in Cadillacs. Field of Schemes introduces you to some real welfare kings."--BOOK JACKET. "A used-car salesman turned baseball owner promises to pay for a new stadium out of his own pocket, if the state government just agrees to move a highway to clear the land. Several backroom deals later, the state is raising a quarter-billion dollars towards the stadium costs - and the team owner is getting his stadium scot-free."--BOOK JACKET. "The billionaire co-founder of Microsoft wants to buy a football team, but only if the state will build him a new stadium first. So he pays the $4 million cost of a referendum - even as his camp spends millions more in advertising to make sure he wins. In exchange, he gets at least $300 million in public money to build his team's new home."--BOOK JACKET.
Click to expand...
 
"A used-car salesman turned baseball owner promises to pay for a new stadium out of his own pocket, if the state government just agrees to move a highway to clear the land. Several backroom deals later, the state is raising a quarter-billion dollars towards the stadium costs - and the team owner is getting his stadium scot-free."--
Click to expand...

I was listening to local Tampa sports radio and they were discussing teams relocating to LA. They mentioned that the Glaziers would never move the Bucs because of something similar to what this mentions above.

You can read about it on Wiki if you want. The short story is the Glaziers not only talked the city into building and paying 100% for a new stadium, somehow they also got them to agree to occupying it rent free. So basically the Glaziers got a free stadium and pay no rent .. and 100% of the profits go back to the Glaziers.

That is crazy. The taxpayers are footing 100% of the bill for the stadium, giving their team free rent .. and yet several of their home games were blacked out last season because they didn't sell out. The Tampa Bay area should be 100% except from blackouts.
 
It really disgusts me that citizens are blacked-out of games that are played in taxpayer financed stadiums.
 
Thank you, Hookem! I've been trying to explain this all last season. You actually have done your homework, which the national media doesn't do.. it's called research! The Jags have been doing well on the attendance, we haven't had a blackout, since 2009. Thank Khan for the rebirth of the Jags. Weaver became so cheap w/Jags, only staying in Duval county and sticking w/JDR. Khan has started the Jag Caravan, which has branched out into S. GA and N. FL markets. Something that should have been done 10 years ago! Face it, Everbank stadium is too big for the market, w/out tarps..over 85,000 seats. The tarps brings the size down to a big NFL stadium size. Hookem, we should tailgate for the Texans vs. Jags game? Always fun games to watch! Here's to football and a good rivalry!


Hookem Horns said:
jags.gif


I never thought I would find myself defending the Jags however here goes. Living in central Florida I have now driven through Jax several times. One thing that I have noticed on the highways there are a lot of cars sporting Jags stickers, plates, etc.

Looking at last year's attendance records from that article I was very surprised by the Jags numbers. The Jags averaged 62,331. Just compare that to other teams.

The Jags have higher attendance than many other teams including the Chicago Bears. Granted the Bears stadium is smaller and sold out however the facts are there are typically more fans at a Jags game than a Bears game.

Another surprising fact is the Jags are only averaging 600 and change less than the Steelers in attendance. Unlike the Bears, Heinz Field can hold more because they were not at full capacity according to that chart. This and the Steelers have a huge following nationally. I see more more Steelers stuff on cars around here than any other NFL team including the locals (Bucs, Jags, Dolphins).

Speaking of the Dolphins and Bucs, the Jags are topping both of those teams in ticket sales. So of all 3 NFL teams in Florida the Jags are #1 in ticket sales.

As for the infamous tarps. That stadium is huge and was built with college football crowds in mind. I don't know what the capacity is without the tarps, however with the tarps covering huge sections the official capacity it still at 67,164 according to that chart. That is more than 11 other NFL stadiums which include stadiums of the Bears, Raiders, Colts, Vikings, Lions, Cardinals, Steelers, Bengals, Bucs, Rams, and Seahawks.

I know we like busting on the Jags saying they don't deserve a team, etc. However the facts show otherwise. That all being said I still hate the team, however they are clearly supported up there.
Click to expand...
 
No matter how this turns out, Colts fans are bound to be irate by the very fact that Irsay has announced ahead of time that many are free to "eat cake" if his stadium isn't filled every game day.

Colts won’t take advantage of new blackout rule
Posted by Mike Florio on July 10, 2012, 8:26 PM EDT


The Colts apparently view the new blackout rule as a curse more than a blessing, which could cause plenty of Colts fans to do some cursing once the season starts.

As first reported by FOX59.com, the Colts won’t take advantage of the provision that allows them to reduce their threshold of non-premium seats from 100 percent to as low as 85 percent.

“We’re confident that the games are going to sell out this year, but if for some reason one didn’t, then obviously the blackout rules would still apply,” said Larry Hall, V.P. of ticket operations and guest services for the Colts.

The Colts still have 2,000 season tickets available at their Lucas Oil Stadium home, even after exhausting what once was a waiting list to buy them.

“We understand what the NFL is doing and at the same time, as a small market team, we want to make sure that we protect that game day experience,” Hall said. “Every year we’ll evaluate where we’re at, but at this point in time after thinking through it, home field advantage is a big part of it. It’s a competitive advantage on the field to have the stadium full.”

The Colts’ position demonstrates the dilemma that the new policy has created. A team’s fans and the local media covering it will now expect the team to do whatever it has to do to ensure that the games will be televised, regardless of the details. As a a result, no team can effectively hide behind the blackout policy; the team can either reduce its percentage to reflect the anticipated demand for the season, or the team can commit to paying 34 cents on the dollar to ensure that enough non-premium tickets are sold.

The fact that the team must kick an extra 16 cents per dollar on every ticket sold above the adjusted minimum doesn’t matter. What matters is that the league has given teams a way to televise home games locally without selling all non-premium tickets. Teams that failed to deliver the homes games into the local fans’ homes will feel the ensuing wrath.

That’s precisely what will happen to the Colts, explains Bob Kravitz of the Indianapolis Star. Kravitz believes (accurately) that the Colts should have crafted a more deliberate press release explaining the situation, in order to take some of the sting out of the situation.

Kravtiz also presumably believes (again accurately) that owner Jim Irsay shouldn’t have ducked Kravitz’s efforts to obtain a comment. Based on their respective Twitter pages, Kravitz tried to get Irsay to call the veteran reporter, and Irsay responded by tweeting Rolling Stones lyrics from Waiting on a Friend, by asking Kravitz if his number is “867-5309″ (the Tommy Tutone song), inexplicably blurting out “pizza pizza,” and finally telling Kravitz that Irsay is “watching Godzilla . . . one must have some leisure to be proper and well-rounded.”

Some Colts may think that’s funny. Others may think that Irsay officially has become a modern-day Nero, fiddling with Twitter while his fan base burns.
Click to expand...
 
mootini said:
Thank you, Hookem! I've been trying to explain this all last season. You actually have done your homework, which the national media doesn't do.. it's called research! The Jags have been doing well on the attendance, we haven't had a blackout, since 2009. Thank Khan for the rebirth of the Jags. Weaver became so cheap w/Jags, only staying in Duval county and sticking w/JDR. Khan has started the Jag Caravan, which has branched out into S. GA and N. FL markets. Something that should have been done 10 years ago! Face it, Everbank stadium is too big for the market, w/out tarps..over 85,000 seats. The tarps brings the size down to a big NFL stadium size. Hookem, we should tailgate for the Texans vs. Jags game? Always fun games to watch! Here's to football and a good rivalry!
Click to expand...

Hi Mootini, if I can make the game up there I will be sure to come tailgate with you guys. The issue is I am going to be in the Keys that week. The only way I can make it is if I leave a day early (which is a possibility). However it could be a challenge because I will have some friends with me. As it's planned right now I am supposed to come back home that Sunday.

No matter how this turns out, Colts fans are bound to be irate by the very fact that Irsay has announced ahead of time that many are free to "eat cake" if his stadium isn't filled every game day.
Click to expand...

Wow, the NFL should have made this mandatory. Too many greedy owners are not going to take advantage and further isolate themselves from their fanbase. The Irsay's are of the same fold as Bud Adams so this is no surprise.
 
Bucs not following Irsay's lead ..

JUST ANNOUNCED: The Bucs will take advantage of the NFL's new measure to reduce the % of ticket sales needed to avoid blackouts of home games. Any 2012 Buccaneer home games that sell 85% of non-premium tickets will be televised locally, rather than the 100% previously required
Click to expand...

http://www.facebook.com/tampabaybuccaneers

Smart move on the part of the Glazier's.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top