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Old 06-29-2012   #21
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Default Re: Jaws gives breakdown on Schaub (AFC South Blog)

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I agree that ideally the team is a balanced attack. However, last year due to the Schaub and then Leonard injury the team turned to 5th rook to play qb. As a result I think Kubes was forced to rush more than he wanted to protect Yates.

One of the things with the Denver system is that they ran it for years witha passer and didn't really get anywhere. It was only when a quality passer was combined with a quality rusher that they finally won the sb. After years Kubes finally has a quality rusher and passer. He can finally run that balanced attack he has wanted for so long.
Gotta' disagree with the bolded. Making it to three Super Bowls - regardless of the outcomes - is far from not getting anywhere. I'd love to have a hometown team that just made it to the Super Bowl once, much less three times.

Agree with the rest, though. Adding T.D. to the mix was what finally put Elway over the top with his offense to win two championships.
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Old 06-29-2012   #22
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Default Re: Jaws gives breakdown on Schaub (AFC South Blog)

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Welp, if Jaws says it...
Yep. Vick & Flacco over Schaub? No thanks. Tony Romo? Great talent, but that guy single-handedly loses games (w/help of Garrett). And Stafford worse than Schaub and the guys mentioned above? (Hey Detroit, wanna trade?)

We've been pass based and rush first based -- which gives us some nice flexibility & makes it tougher to game-plan against. We'll never be the Saints O.
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Old 06-29-2012   #23
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Default Re: Jaws gives breakdown on Schaub (AFC South Blog)

I guess this always comes down to a "Which came first, the run or the pass..."

To me, a great play-action pass game (which is what Schaub is known for, and by which Kubiak loves to create mismatches--as Jaws said) is achieved only if the defense respects the run 100%.

Of course a defense is still going to attack what they think is a run play at the snap, but then we have levels of commitment that come into play: How hard does the D bite on that fake, what resources/personnel do they over-commit to stopping the anticipated run play, etc.? Does it cause the D players to have mental pause at all the wrong times throughout a game?

Put Donald Brown back there as Texans RB and I don't think, over the course of a season, that this team would pass very efficiently. When a D spearheads into a single focal point, they leave their flanks upon to attack...which is why a vicious cutback artist like AF tears defenses to shreds. He gets to their exposed flanks and he's gone. And as Jaws explained, this also is what causes AJ to get so open the majority of the time--D is over-committing at the wrong time(s) in order to pursue AF or BT.
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Old 06-29-2012   #24
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Default Re: Jaws gives breakdown on Schaub (AFC South Blog)

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Put Donald Brown back there as Texans RB and I don't think, over the course of a season, that this team would pass very efficiently. When a D spearheads into a single focal point, they leave their flanks upon to attack...which is why a vicious cutback artist like AF tears defenses to shreds. He gets to their exposed flanks and he's gone. And as Jaws explained, this also is what causes AJ to get so open the majority of the time--D is over-committing at the wrong time(s) in order to pursue AF or BT.
But we were kicking ass in the passing game with Chris Brown as our "feature" back.
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Old 06-29-2012   #25
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Default Re: Jaws gives breakdown on Schaub (AFC South Blog)

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But we were kicking ass in the passing game with Chris Brown as our "feature" back.
Wait a second. Now TK, exactly how long was Chris Brown a feature back here?

There was Ahman Green, then Slaton dazzled in 2008 IIRC, but Chris Brown was never a feature back. Role-playing backup and/or 3rd down guy who throws ****ty halfback passes? Yes. Feature back??? LOL.

The times when Ahman was healthy, he was decent. Slaton was pretty good in 2008 and then things fell apart in 2009. 2010 and 2011 was AF's monster years.
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Old 06-29-2012   #26
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Default Re: Jaws gives breakdown on Schaub (AFC South Blog)

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Yep. Vick & Flacco over Schaub? No thanks. Tony Romo? Great talent, but that guy single-handedly loses games (w/help of Garrett). And Stafford worse than Schaub and the guys mentioned above? (Hey Detroit, wanna trade?)

We've been pass based and rush first based -- which gives us some nice flexibility & makes it tougher to game-plan against. We'll never be the Saints O.
Romo has the second highest career passer rating in history right now. And while he hasn't won anything big and has made mistakes what do you call Schaub throwing late game picks to lose multiple games? I've been hard on both guys at times but I've learned you can't look at that stuff in a vaccuum because it will drive you crazy.
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Old 06-29-2012   #27
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Default Re: Jaws gives breakdown on Schaub (AFC South Blog)

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Romo has the second highest career passer rating in history right now. I'd while he hasn't won anything big and has made mistakes what do you call Schaub throwing late game picks to lose multiple games. I've been hard on both guys at times but I've learned you can't look at that stuff in a vaccuum because it will drive you crazy.
With the exception of maybe this past year or two, Romo had been known as a guy who starts hot and fades (drastically) at the end of each season. I know because I play fantasy football, and I would never draft Romo because he was a heartbreaker at the end of the season when you needed fantasy points reliably and consistently from the QB.

Sure, he'd boost your fantasy team the first half of the season and things looked splendid, then it dropped off considerably due to interceptions, fumbled snaps, traveling northeast for the winter portion of the schedule.

However, he has recently been much more consistent from start to finish. The thing that hurts him is that defense. He's always playing from behind.
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Old 06-29-2012   #28
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Default Re: Jaws gives breakdown on Schaub (AFC South Blog)

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With the exception of maybe this past year or two, Romo had been known as a guy who starts hot and fades (drastically) at the end of each season. I know because I play fantasy football, and I would never draft Romo because he was a heartbreaker at the end of the season when you needed fantasy points reliably and consistently from the QB.

Sure, he'd boost your fantasy team the first half of the season and things looked splendid, then it dropped off considerably due to interceptions, fumbled snaps, traveling northeast for the winter portion of the schedule.

However, he has recently been much more consistent from start to finish. The thing that hurts him is that defense. He's always playing from behind.
Last year was one of his best and most complete years but the D could never hold leads once they made up deficits or they would squander early leads. He had 2 brainfart games where he contributed with ints but overall I thought he "got it" more than some other years...see SF game. I hope he gets it more this year. Some people like Staubach have come out and said that he deserves more respect and that the pressure is big but that he should be able to do more if they fix the D, etc. I also think he gets a bum rap at times despite a horrible O line in years past. When I traveled to Minnesota to watch the playoff game a few years back it was laughable how badly he was running for his life. Even with late game things in the past I don't think you get up on some of these lists unless your doing things right.
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Old 06-29-2012   #29
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Default Re: Jaws gives breakdown on Schaub (AFC South Blog)

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Wait a second. Now TK, exactly how long was Chris Brown a feature back here?
Just as an aside that should factor into your thinking on this issue, a couple seasons ago, with Foster at RB, the Texans couldn't score more than 7 points in the first half for a majority of the season. The result was they had to open up the offense and pass like crazy in the second half when the other team wasn't all that concerned about the run. Many of the yards that Foster racked up in his first season were set up by the pass. Last year was a reversal from that.

I just think they are a balanced team that can go either way. They don't always have a balance, but they can be balanced if they play their game.
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Old 06-29-2012   #30
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Default Re: Jaws gives breakdown on Schaub (AFC South Blog)

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Last year was one of his best and most complete years but the D could never hold leads once they made up deficits or they would squander early leads. He had 2 brainfart games where he contributed with ints but overall I thought he "got it" more than some other years...see SF game. I hope he gets it more this year. Some people like Staubach have come out and said that he deserves more respect and that the pressure is big but that he should be able to do more if they fix the D, etc. I also think he gets a bum rap at times despite a horrible O line in years past. When I traveled to Minnesota to watch the playoff game a few years back it was laughable how badly he was running for his life. Even with late game things in the past I don't think you get up on some of these lists unless your doing things right.
He's a positive guy, too, which hurts his street cred in the realm of fandom. When guys like Brady are incensed and pouting if they lost, Romo is smiling and being deflective about "who should get the blame."

Ultimately, I just wonder if he's too nice of a guy to fit on Jerry's team. Jerry is not exactly the fuzziest, warmest guy in the room. Still, Romo has survived it all and still gets the nod as QB1...but I was really thinking Jerry would have made a huge move for a new QB--be it Weeden or Tannehill or even RGIII.

If Jerry can get the defense and the o-line playing constantly good, Romo can be a great QB. Patience with Romo might reward Jerry if other things go well.

Romo is almost like a Tebow guy but in a more sincere fashion. And can actually pass the ball. LOL.
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Old 06-29-2012   #31
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Default Re: Jaws gives breakdown on Schaub (AFC South Blog)

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To me, a great play-action pass game (which is what Schaub is known for, and by which Kubiak loves to create mismatches--as Jaws said) is achieved only if the defense respects the run 100%.

Of course a defense is still going to attack what they think is a run play at the snap, but then we have levels of commitment that come into play: How hard does the D bite on that fake, what resources/personnel do they over-commit to stopping the anticipated run play, etc.? Does it cause the D players to have mental pause at all the wrong times throughout a game?

Put Donald Brown back there as Texans RB and I don't think, over the course of a season, that this team would pass very efficiently.
You look like you aren't even a Texans fan when you say stuff like this. It might be excusable as conventional wisdom but when your team led the league is passing yards and receiving yards with NO rushing attack then the above becomes ridiculous.
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Old 06-29-2012   #32
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Default Re: Jaws gives breakdown on Schaub (AFC South Blog)

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Last year was one of his best and most complete years but the D could never hold leads once they made up deficits or they would squander early leads.
If they could run the ball, you wouldn't have that problem. Romo was fantasy Gold when he had the Julius Jones/Marion Barber 1-2 punch. But Jerrah outsmarted himself, paid Barber, let Julius walk..... long story short, their run game hasn't been the same since.

Demarco Murray came in & it looked like the Cowboys couldn't lose. Romo was gold again... Murray got hurt, defense looked suspect....



I'm not saying you're wrong, their D needs help. The run game would help as well.
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Old 06-29-2012   #33
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Default Re: Jaws gives breakdown on Schaub (AFC South Blog)

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I agree that ideally the team is a balanced attack. However, last year due to the Schaub and then Leonard injury the team turned to 5th rook to play qb. As a result I think Kubes was forced to rush more than he wanted to protect Yates.

One of the things with the Denver system is that they ran it for years witha passer and didn't really get anywhere. It was only when a quality passer was combined with a quality rusher that they finally won the sb. After years Kubes finally has a quality rusher and passer. He can finally run that balanced attack he has wanted for so long.
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Totally agree with that. At the end of the day though, Kubiak is a former NFL QB and known as a QB guru. He is not setting up a system to be an unbalanced rushing attack. Schaub and AJ led the passing and receiving yards in a year we had zero rushing attack. People keep making this rushing assertion and we are not and have never been and never will be (under Kubiak) a power rush it down your throat and only pass in desperation kind of team.
It's not a simple task to determine what kind of an offense the Texans really had.

There are factors that vary from year to year.

For example, when you are more often behind, your team will throw the ball more.

The health of your starting QB (as well as some of your other key players) may alter the game plan a little in a few particular games.

The defenses that you face. One year, you may face more teams that are better at defending the pass (and not as good defending the run); so you run the ball a little more.

...

Having say that, let's move on and isolate the 2011 season.
The Texans RBs actually averaged some 4 more carries per game without Schaub.
The notion that Kubiak was forced to run ball more with Yates is simply not true.
(Whether you count the final game of the season or not, the Texans averaged roughly 29 rushing attempts by the RBs without Schaub whereas they averaged about 34 with Schaub).

Schaub averaged just slightly little more than 29 pass attempts per game.
So did Yates (almost). Don't forget that one needs to take into consideration sacks and QB scrambles as he tried to execute a passing play.

The same thing would result if you also account for the play-off games.
All the while, Yates faced better defenses (and pass defenses) overall than Schaub.
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Old 06-29-2012   #34
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Default Re: Jaws gives breakdown on Schaub (AFC South Blog)

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It's not a simple task to determine what kind of an offense the Texans really had.

There are factors that vary from year to year.

For example, when you are more often behind, your team will throw the ball more.
No it isn't, Yes there are, Never said they didn't.

All I am saying is Kubiak wants a running game. That is different from being a run first team..
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Old 06-30-2012   #35
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Default Re: Jaws gives breakdown on Schaub (AFC South Blog)

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No it isn't, Yes there are, Never said they didn't.

All I am saying is Kubiak wants a running game. That is different from being a run first team..
Infantrycak wins the thread.

None of this is rocket science. Kubiak says what he means. He wants a balanced offense. The best case scenario of games is to crush teams in the first half finding mismatches. Then run it down team's throats in the second half after amassing a big lead and having the defense pinning its ears back killing the opponent that has to throw to get back into the game.

Dennison was amazed that Kubiak could get effective play action without a functional running game before he arrived. But that is not ideal. A more balanced offense puts more pressure on defenses.

The Bronco teams that ended up winning finally got less one dimensional by getting Elway a running game to keep defenses off balance, and their Super Bowl years had a good defense.
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Old 06-30-2012   #36
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Default Re: Jaws gives breakdown on Schaub (AFC South Blog)

I would say that we're an OL first offense. Excluding obvious passing situations, the success of the passing game relies on play action and the OL selling the run at the snap. That, to me, is one of the greatest assets of this offense. When the OL is working great, defenses have a very hard time determining run or pass because the 1st 1-2 seconds(a long time in an NFL play) tend to look identical and it freezes LB's and safeties for those critical 1-2 seconds. That shows itself in games where the oppossing defense has superior talent in the interior DL. The OL tends to struggle and the rest of the offense falls off with it. Last years game against the Raiders and the regular season Baltimore game highlighted this IMO. Kubiak was slow to adjust in the regular season, but made the proper changes in the playoff game against the Ravens.

As goes the OL, so goes the rest of the offense, to a large degree.
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Old 06-30-2012   #37
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Default Re: Jaws gives breakdown on Schaub (AFC South Blog)

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When the OL is working great, defenses have a very hard time determining run or pass because the 1st 1-2 seconds(a long time in an NFL play) tend to look identical and it freezes LB's and safeties for those critical 1-2 seconds.
That's true. But if you've got a home run threat in the backfield like Foster & Tate, you don't just freeze LBs & Safeties. You suck them in, leaving huge holes in the defense.

When the commentator says, "How does Andre continue to get so wide open?"

There was a lot of suck on that play caused by the OL doing their job, Schaub doing his job, and Foster & Tate being Foster & Tate.
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Old 06-30-2012   #38
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Default Re: Jaws gives breakdown on Schaub (AFC South Blog)

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That's true. But if you've got a home run threat in the backfield like Foster & Tate, you don't just freeze LBs & Safeties. You suck them in, leaving huge holes in the defense.

When the commentator says, "How does Andre continue to get so wide open?"

There was a lot of suck on that play caused by the OL doing their job, Schaub doing his job, and Foster & Tate being Foster & Tate.
It's a team sport and takes all facets working together to be successful. IMO, that all starts with the OL executing. None of the "skill" positions look nearly as "skilled" when they don't.
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Old 06-30-2012   #39
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Default Re: Jaws gives breakdown on Schaub (AFC South Blog)

A straight run/pass% analysis doesn't really tell the story of what an offense wants to do or is good at doing.

A crappy team that is always down by 20 points is going to throw a lot. A team that is always in the lead is generally going to run more (unless they simply can't run: late 2k's Colts).

I remember reading a mid-season story in the paper that said the Texans ran their average play with a lead of somewhere around 4.5 (highest in the NFL at the time). When you're always in the lead and trying to kill clock, you're going to run more that if you were always playing catchup. It doesn't mean that would be your ideal run/pass balance in a close game. I don't have all of my excel files in front of me, but I seem to remember the Texans throwing more than running in situations where the game was +-3 points in the first 3 quarters.
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Old 06-30-2012   #40
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Default Re: Jaws gives breakdown on Schaub (AFC South Blog)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goatcheese View Post
A straight run/pass% analysis doesn't really tell the story of what an offense wants to do or is good at doing.

A crappy team that is always down by 20 points is going to throw a lot. A team that is always in the lead is generally going to run more (unless they simply can't run: late 2k's Colts).

I remember reading a mid-season story in the paper that said the Texans ran their average play with a lead of somewhere around 4.5 (highest in the NFL at the time). When you're always in the lead and trying to kill clock, you're going to run more that if you were always playing catchup. It doesn't mean that would be your ideal run/pass balance in a close game. I don't have all of my excel files in front of me, but I seem to remember the Texans throwing more than running in situations where the game was +-3 points in the first 3 quarters.
I would like to see that spreadsheet. I am inclined to say that Kubiak will get even more run-oriented in a close game to prevent negative plays (sacks, sack/strips,INT's) in a close game and pick his spots for pass plays. Kubiak is known to stick to a balanced attack even when the running game is doing poorly.
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