Texans chances of making it to the HOF

[gtexan02]

Originally Posted by Texan_Bill

The only reason there is even a discussion about Dre is because he played on some crappy teams with a crappy QB *ahem* HWSRN.

AJ doesn't score enough
And injuries

[Scooter]

right now, not even close ... dre doesnt get in if he retires today unless it's a favor to the expansion texans.

if AJ plays until 35-37 years old, minus two for injury, he's in and top 10 in most major categories. also, unlike others being mentioned as waiting to get in, andre has been the best at his position for atleast half a decade. fitz's postseason and megatron's breakout only occur without andre johnson. the discussion only leaves andre johnson when he's off the field. in 2 postseason games dre has 200+ yards (with tj yates, not kurt warner), and as mentioned was on pace for 1600yds this year before injury.

the lack of touchdowns hurts. the lack of postseason success hurts. but as far as i can tell those arent the end all factors to the voters ... will there be a better wide receiver between 2005-2015? as of now andre is the king of that generation. the deciding factor is not what the others do, it's andre's legs IMO. it hurt me watching andre at the end of last year, he had zero movement. if he cant regain his movement, he might not be able to literally keep up. if dre can find his feet and put in healthy work for the next 3-5 years, he'll have dominated the generation and have the numbers to be in the hall ... despite playing in two "pre passing era" offenses in a time of spread "dont touch me" receivers.

[gtexan02]

I disagree with CJs status. He is the best WR regardless of AJs status. He is playing at an other worldly level right now.

[Brisco_County]

The discussion would be much different if AJ played for a team with a national fan base like the Cowboys or Eagles. Those teams haven't won Super Bowls during the last nine years, and they receive regular media showcasing and water cooler talk, even during their down years. If AJ had that kind of popularity throughout his career, his induction would be a foregone conclusion.

[The Pencil Neck]

Right now, AJ doesn't get in. Or if he does, it's after years of haggling and shmoozing.

BUT after our tremendous series of strong post-season performances and myriad of Super Bowls and the incredible numbers AJ puts up in the postseason, he's a lock.

It's just that simple.

[The Pencil Neck]

Right now, AJ doesn't get in. Or if he does, it's after years of haggling and shmoozing.

BUT after our tremendous series of strong post-season performances and myriad of Super Bowls and the incredible numbers AJ puts up in the postseason, he's a lock.

It's just that simple.

[EllisUnit]

OK OK AJ whipped Finnegans ass, so he deserves to get in just for that reason. End of story !

[The Pencil Neck]

Originally Posted by EllisUnit

OK OK AJ whipped Finnegans ass, so he deserves to get in just for that reason. End of story !

I hadn't considered that. You are, of course, correct.

[ObsiWan]

Originally Posted by EllisUnit

OK OK AJ whipped Finnegans ass, so he deserves to get in just for that reason. End of story !

damn if I know how, but that completely slipped my mind.
He's a lock.

[Texan_Bill]

Originally Posted by gtexan02

AJ doesn't score enough
And injuries

While true, the NFL will put AJ in so that all 32 teams are represented and he is the best candidate for that honor.

[ChampionTexan]

Originally Posted by Texan_Bill

While true, the NFL will put AJ in so that all 32 teams are represented and he is the best candidate for that honor.

To get to all 32 teams, they'll also need to add someone from Jacksonville. I don't really think having every team represented matters to anyone making the decisions/casting the votes.

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by ChampionTexan

To get to all 32 teams, they'll also need to add someone from Jacksonville. I don't really think having every team represented matters to anyone making the decisions/casting the votes.

Who has Jacksonville had who was ever in the conversation for best at his position? Boselli is the closest they come and his career was cut short.

[ChampionTexan]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

Who has Jacksonville had who was ever in the conversation for best at his position? Boselli is the closest they come and his career was cut short.

I agree that there's never been a serious candidate from the Jags. The post I quoted said AJ will be put in "so all 32 teams are represented". I pointed out even if/when he goes in, that won't be the case unless a Jag is inducted in the meantime. I also added my opinion that I didn't think being the first Texan would factor into AJ's chances.

[The Pencil Neck]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

Who has Jacksonville had who was ever in the conversation for best at his position? Boselli is the closest they come and his career was cut short.

Jimmy Smith with Fred Taylor a distant second. I don't think Boselli played long enough.

If Brunell had been able to get them to the SB both times he made it to the Conference Championship and if they'd won the SB, he'd be in the conversation. But he never won enough or won a SB. He only threw over 4000 yards once in his career and that year he had 19 TDs to 20 INTs. But he's the best QB they've had.

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck

Jimmy Smith with Fred Taylor a distant second.

Very distant. Heck Taylor only made one pro-bowl in his career and neither ever made All Pro.

If Brunell had been able to get them to the SB both times he made it to the Conference Championship and if they'd won the SB, he'd be in the conversation. But he never won enough or won a SB. He only threw over 4000 yards once in his career and that year he had 19 TDs to 20 INTs. But he's the best QB they've had.

Only because of the rings - if he had gotten them. He was OK but not HOF or even close in my book. Another player who was never an All Pro.

I just think you need to be in the discussion for best at your position to get into the hall of fame. In the past few years that discussion is Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald.

To be one of the best of all time you need to be best of your time.

[The Pencil Neck]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

Very distant. Heck Taylor only made one pro-bowl in his career and neither ever made All Pro.



Only because of the rings - if he had gotten them. He was OK but not HOF or even close in my book. Another player who was never an All Pro.

I just think you need to be in the discussion for best at your position to get into the hall of fame. In the past few years that discussion is Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald.

To be one of the best of all time you need to be best of your time.

Yeah, I wasn't saying any of those guys even deserve to be in the conversation of being in the HOF. I was just trying to remember all the "best" Jag players that a Jag fan might talk about as being in the conversation.

If Brunell had won a couple of SBs, his entire reputation would have been different. But ultimately, he didn't have the stats or the wins or the rings to be more than a slightly above average player.

[eriadoc]

I find this latest twist in the conversation to be interesting. Let me start out by saying that I personally believe greatness should put you in the HoF before longevity. There's a balance to be struck, but for me, Earl Campbell was one of the three greatest RBs that ever played, even though he was really only great for four years. Other people argue for longevity. I get that. I disagree. Neither of us have a vote on the HoF selection committee, so we can just disagree. But it frames my argument in such a way that lets you know that I think AJ is great enough to be in the HoF. Now, what we're really discussing is whether or not we think the HoF will actually induct him. The reference to Jimmy Smith is interesting, because I don't think anyone outside Jacksonville seriously considers Smith a true HoF candidate. Nonetheless, the HoF selection committee will look at things like longevity and statistics. So let's take a look.

In the 11 seasons that he actually played, Jimmy Smith started 150 games. In nine seasons, AJ has started 122 games. 13.64 vs 13.55 is comparable.

In those 11 seasons, Jimmy Smith caught 862 balls for 12,287 yards. AJ in nine seasons has caught 706 for 9656 yards. That's 5.75 rec/game for Smith and 5.79 rec/game for AJ. Smith averaged 81.91 yards/game and AJ averages 79.15 yards/game. Smith averaged 14.3 yards/catch and AJ averages 13.7.

Smith caught 67 TDs, while AJ has 52 TDs. That is .45 TD/game for Smith and .43 TD/game for AJ.

Do with those numbers what you will, but to this point, Jimmy Smith started more games per season, had more yards per game, had more TDs per game, and had .04 fewer catches per game. That is probably as close a comparison as you can get. Jimmy Smith was slightly more durable and slightly more prolific.

[eriadoc]

Just as a frame of reference for greatness, Jerry Rice through nine seasons had 708 catches for 11776 yards and 118 TDs. He averaged 5.09 catches per game, 84.72 yards/game, and 16.63 yards per catch. And almost a TD per game.

Oh, and offenses pass more today. Yeah, AJ had Carr throwing to him for the first four years, but his numbers with Schaub don't extrapolate out to Jerry Rice numbers. And that's fine, but can we please drop Rice from any AJ conversations now?

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by eriadoc

I find this latest twist in the conversation to be interesting. Let me start out by saying that I personally believe greatness should put you in the HoF before longevity. There's a balance to be struck, but for me, Earl Campbell was one of the three greatest RBs that ever played, even though he was really only great for four years. Other people argue for longevity. I get that. I disagree.

Agreed. Roger Staubach is my favorite QB ever and his career was cut short by serving his country.

Originally Posted by eriadoc

Yeah, AJ had Carr throwing to him for the first four years, but his numbers with Schaub don't extrapolate out to Jerry Rice numbers. And that's fine, but can we please drop Rice from any AJ conversations now?

Yeah they do and that really isn't the point anyway. We are talking who deserves to be in the HoF not who is the greatest of all time.

By the way are you arguing Montana and Young were just some schlubs or Schaub is HoF material?

[eriadoc]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

By the way are you arguing Montana and Young were just some schlubs or Schaub is HoF material?

Neither, really. Just saying that AJ shouldn't be in the same conversation as Rice. That's not really a knock on AJ. There's the whole chicken-v-egg thing as it relates to QBs and WRs (Rice even made Grbac look good for his short time there), but mostly, the system has a lot to do with statistics. Whatever the reason, AJ has put up stats a helluva lot closer to Jimmy Smith through this point in his career than Rice. It's extremely unlikely that AJ will ever post numbers like Rice, much less post a season where catches 22 TDs or over 1800 yards.