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Old 07-16-2012   #61
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Does schaub have grit? Hmmmmm. I honestly don't think of grit and scrappiness when it comes to schaub, but I'm not ready to say he isn't that guy.

I think part of that perception of Yates is because of the situation he was put in and he also played in games that mattered at the end of the year.

I think if schaub had been in those games where the intensity was turned up he might be thought of differently. I dunno.

What I do know is schaub should be the starter this next season until proven otherwise.
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Old 07-16-2012   #62
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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What I do know is schaub should be the starter this next season until proven otherwise.
For the record, I'm not saying any different.

All I'm saying, IMO, I would hitch my wagon to Schaub, like we're tied to AJ, for many, many years to come if he had that kind of tenacity. We wouldn't be talking about Schaub playing on the last year of his contract & having to prove his toughness.

The injuries don't bother me one bit.
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Old 07-16-2012   #63
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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Take Schaub out of it. If you were a QB hungry team, would you feel good about Tj Yates starting for your club?
I would. I'd still have concerns like anyone else, but I would still beleive in the guy to grow into the job.

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WellKurt Warner is going into the Hall of Fame, he's won multiple Super Bowls & was an MVP. & he's put up some stats.
Actaully Warner has one Super Bowl win, in 2000 againt the Titans.

He lost two. One with the Rams (2001 vs. Patriots) and the other as a Cardinal (2008 vs. the Steelers).

Still a great QB, though.
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Old 07-16-2012   #64
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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Take Schaub out of it. If you were a QB hungry team, would you feel good about Tj Yates starting for your club?
if this is your bottom line question my answer is no. The Yates I saw last season is not the long term answer for this franchise; not like Luck, Newton, RG3, et. al. are the perceived long term answers for their respective teams.

I could be all wrong but something tells me that if Schaub's injury had been career-ending, Smithiak would be looking for someone else to start.
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Old 07-17-2012   #65
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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if this is your bottom line question my answer is no. The Yates I saw last season is not the long term answer for this franchise; not like Luck, Newton, RG3, et. al. are the perceived long term answers for their respective teams.

I could be all wrong but something tells me that if Schaub's injury had been career-ending, Smithiak would be looking for someone else to start.
What he said.

I like TJ's long term potential but I swear it is like someone has been handing out ecstasy pills along with pictures of TJ. I mean seriously, we had a projection today TJ would be closer to Brees than Schaub and TJ hasn't even sniffed Schaub level yet.

But I love how folks keep coming up with new ways to slag Schaub. The leadership thing didn't pan out so well since every player and coach around say he is a leader so the new euphemism for "I don't like him but can't really explain it" is "he doesn't have grit like TJ."
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Old 07-17-2012   #66
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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What he said.

I like TJ's long term potential but I swear it is like someone has been handing out ecstasy pills along with pictures of TJ. I mean seriously, we had a projection today TJ would be closer to Brees than Schaub and TJ hasn't even sniffed Schaub level yet.
Personally I thought that was just an acknowledgement that there are different QBs. Not necessarily that Brees is on another level, just different types of QBs.
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But I love how folks keep coming up with new ways to slag Schaub. The leadership thing didn't pan out so well since every player and coach around say he is a leader so the new euphemism for "I don't like him but can't really explain it" is "he doesn't have grit like TJ."
Coach speak. Unless he's really screwing the pooch, you're not going to find anyone associated with this organization saying that Schaub is anything less than a leader because they know as the QB he is supposed to be.

I don't see it. I see a quitter.

Many people will tell you Donovan McNabb was a great leader for his team when he was the QB for the teams he QBed. I don't think he ever was. Too childish. Great talent. Poor leader.
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Old 07-17-2012   #67
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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Coach speak. Unless he's really screwing the pooch, you're not going to find anyone associated with this organization saying that Schaub is anything less than a leader because they know as the QB he is supposed to be.

I don't see it. I see a quitter.
Yeah 'cuz Seth Payne has any reason to engage in coach speak. Dude essentially never played with Kubiak, got cut by him and never played with Schaub - now there is only one person he played with on the team. Yet he went out of his way to use Schaub as an example of leadership while talking to a different team.

Of course "coach speak" is the easy out for anyone who wants to disagree with players.

Sorry you see quitter - for you that is.
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Old 07-17-2012   #68
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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Sorry you see quitter - for you that is.
I'm not the only one. It's not a figment of my imagination. You may not agree with that assesment.

But that's ok. There will be questions of Schaub's leadership until there ain't. It doesn't matter how many players say what...

People watch Schaub & for whatever reason they don't see a leader. We don't see a guy who can win a Super Bowl. Sure he can be on a team that wins a Super Bowl like some other QBs have.

He played in what, 8 games last year. How many did he win? None. He's a system QB that played the system well. The Defense won most of the games that Arian Foster didn't.

I'm not hating on Schaub. He's a good guy. He's a good QB. He's just not a leader.
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Old 07-17-2012   #69
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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Personally I thought that was just an acknowledgement that there are different QBs. Not necessarily that Brees is on another level, just different types of QBs.


Coach speak. Unless he's really screwing the pooch, you're not going to find anyone associated with this organization saying that Schaub is anything less than a leader because they know as the QB he is supposed to be.

I don't see it. I see a quitter.
You'll have to elaborate here.
Injury prone, perhaps. But a quitter? No.
A quitter wouldn't have been on the sidelines helping TJ when ever and wherever he could like Schaub did. A quitter wouldn't have been pushing himself to rehab ahead of schedule (if you believe the team propaganda). A quitter wouldn't have kept playing with the injuries he had before Haynesworth finished him off. And we all saw that Schaub wasn't 100% but he didn't take himself out, he kept going ...playing thru the little nicks... and even after planet Haynesworth landed on him, he finished out the half until the doctors pulled him out of the game.

But it's totally possible I missed something you picked up on so I need a bit of clarification on this quitter assessment.
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Old 07-17-2012   #70
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I could be all wrong but something tells me that if Schaub's injury had been career-ending, Smithiak would be looking for someone else to start.
I disagree with that.

If that were the case they'd have brought in better competition for the #2 position.

Schaub coming off a serious injury (again) and they are going to go with a guy they don't have much faith in as the back up when they clearly are thinking superbowl?

I doubt that. Based in past history there is a good chance Yates could be qb'ing this team at some point next year and not due to a blowout.

Based on what you saw last season? Pfffttt. Then you talk about two qb's that haven't played a down of NFL football as a comparison?

Yates was a rookie last year. Had he played much better than he did schaub would be out of a job right now. Yates rookie mistakes is what has allowed schaub to re claim his job.
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Old 07-17-2012   #71
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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A quitter wouldn't have kept playing with the injuries he had before Haynesworth finished him off. And we all saw that Schaub wasn't 100% but he didn't take himself out, he kept going ...playing thru the little nicks... and even after planet Haynesworth landed on him, he finished out the half until the doctors pulled him out of the game.
You're right. He definitely deserves credit for that. That was tough.

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But it's totally possible I missed something you picked up on so I need a bit of clarification on this quitter assessment.
Same thing I've been saying. He gives up to easily on plays. IMO. Granted, I don't have the same vantage point as he does, or the players & coaches. But that's what I see.
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Old 07-17-2012   #72
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

TK, I sometimes wonder if you truly believe some of the hogwash you type or just simply being the contrarian of the board.

I'm not going to say that Schaub's the answer, but he's far better and more experienced than TJ. I've been watching the entire season over again and it's clear as day the offense is twice as productive with Schaub.

Good grief...we need some dadgum training camp around here! Rookies report Sunday
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Old 07-17-2012   #73
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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if this is your bottom line question my answer is no. The Yates I saw last season is not the long term answer for this franchise; not like Luck, Newton, RG3, et. al. are the perceived long term answers for their respective teams.
On the bolded, I do not see anyone advocating a position that TJ is like Luck, Newton, RG3.

But, I got news for ya', pal, unless you want to endure another 2-14 season for a top pick in the draft, we ain't getting a Luck, Newton, RG3, etc., any time soon.

So we either trade for value (i.e. Schaub) or we try to find a gem the rock pile (hopefully TJ).

I think it's delusional and a little shallow to even bring those names into the conversation, simply because it's unrealistic scenarios. Almost like bringing Manning and Brady into a conversation about Schaub. It is pointless.

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I could be all wrong but something tells me that if Schaub's injury had been career-ending, Smithiak would be looking for someone else to start.
I always thought you liked and respected Kubiak.

This statement tells me that you are questioning his analytical skills and coaching choices at a position that is his known strength (QBs).

Like Rey mentioned, I think Kubiak would have found someone for the #2 spot if he did not believe in TJ. Schaub's health is unknown quantity for a 16+ game schedule right now. That's not a knock on the guy, but just the reality of a QB coming off a severe injury that has been known to end careers.

You cannot have it both ways. You either believe Kubiak's judgment on QBs, or you don't.
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Old 07-17-2012   #74
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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Same thing I've been saying. He gives up to easily on plays. IMO. Granted, I don't have the same vantage point as he does, or the players & coaches. But that's what I see.
GRAMMAR NAZI: "too easily."

But seriously, giving up on plays and being a quitter are two totally different things to me.

Schaub has shown the ability to stand in the pocket and deliver when the hit is coming. But he's been taught to get rid of the ball rather than take a negative play and that's something that's developed as time has gone on. Lots of times what you're calling "giving up too early" is actually making an intelligent play.

Lots of QBs hold the ball too long and then either take the sack or force the ball into coverage and a possible int. Schaub getting rid of the ball like he does is a sign, to me, of his maturity more than a red-flag about his mental state.

Being a quitter, on the other hand, is a different and much more serious charge. That means not even trying. That means ignoring down and distance and laying down and taking sacks out of fear and not really trying. I've never seen Schaub do that. He's always been good in pressure situations. He's always seemed to be trying to win the game instead of just survive it.

Being a quitter is having a hangnail and going on injured reserve. Schaub has played through a lot of injuries. He has to be in really bad shape to be taken off the field.

That's not a quitter to me.
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Old 07-17-2012   #75
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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Schaub has shown the ability to stand in the pocket and deliver when the hit is coming. But he's been taught to get rid of the ball rather than take a negative play and that's something that's developed as time has gone on. Lots of times what you're calling "giving up too early" is actually making an intelligent play.

Lots of QBs hold the ball too long and then either take the sack or force the ball into coverage and a possible int. Schaub getting rid of the ball like he does is a sign, to me, of his maturity more than a red-flag about his mental state...
MSR.

Schaub seemed much better about throwing it away last year then in the past. I hope TJ can work through his progressions better and learn when to throw it away. Perhaps the Baltimore game would have been different if TJ had not tried to force too many.
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Old 07-17-2012   #76
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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MSR.

Schaub seemed much better about throwing it away last year then in the past. I hope TJ can work through his progressions better and learn when to throw it away. Perhaps the Baltimore game would have been different if TJ had not tried to force too many.
TJ needs to relax a little, if possible he was trying to hard to make plays. He needs to trust his release, focus on a smaller more defined window & let it go. The revamped OL has a chance to actually afford whoever is the Texans QB more time as Butler has a longer reach & athletic speed to thwart some of those blind side speed rushers Winston would get burned on. Schaubs speed of play development comes via vision & quickness of recognition. Yates has better foot speed & release. I just hope Texans don't make the same mistake Chargers did in Rivers vs Brees battle?

Either way it's a nice problem to have, for a change.
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Old 07-17-2012   #77
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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TK, I sometimes wonder if you truly believe some of the hogwash you type or just simply being the contrarian of the board.

I'm not going to say that Schaub's the answer, but he's far better and more experienced than TJ. I've been watching the entire season over again and it's clear as day the offense is twice as productive with Schaub.

Good grief...we need some dadgum training camp around here! Rookies report Sunday
I've never said that Tj was better than Schaub. I said he's shown more grit. But that doesn't make him a better leader or QB.

Schaub is hands down the better of the two right now.

All I said is if the situation were different, I would be happy if Tj were starting for my team. At the same time I'm glad that he is sitting on the bench and will be allowed to come along slowly, thanks to Schaub being the competent QB that he is.

I think Schaub is good enough to win a Super Bowl with this team. I don't think Schaub is good enough to win a Super Bowl for this team. That's a big difference. There aren't many QBs out there that can win a Super Bowl for a team. I'm not putting Schaub in the category of QBs whose team won a Super Bowl in spite of him ala Dilfer or Johnson.
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Old 07-17-2012   #78
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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But seriously, giving up on plays and being a quitter are two totally different things to me.

Schaub has shown the ability to stand in the pocket and deliver when the hit is coming. But he's been taught to get rid of the ball rather than take a negative play and that's something that's developed as time has gone on. Lots of times what you're calling "giving up too early" is actually making an intelligent play.

That's not a quitter to me.
Trust me, it used to upset me 2 no end when Carr would take a sack & he could have just easily thrown the ball away. There were several times when I would have liked too have seen him take a quick scan & chunk it in the stands if he didn't like what he saw.... or tuck it & run towards the first down marker that is.

So I understand teaching the QB 2 throw the ball away & live two play another day (or down in this case).

But I've seen to many plays (some on third down) where there isn't anyone near Schaub and instead of holding it for another second or two, he's already tossed it out of bounds.

I complained about Schaub doing this before the 2009 season. 2009, he played a completely different game. Like he wasn't going too let his team lose. He wasn't going to let the punter on the field. He was going two make something happen. I miss that guy. That's all I'm saying. That's the guy we need to go where we want to go..... CHamPionshIP

Now I'll say this. All the while I've been complaining about Schaub I've also been complaining about not having any real talent at the skill position for him. 2009 was the year Jacoby looked like he was going to be something. OD got hurt halfway through the season, but looked like he was going to break 1000 yards. Andre took it to another level. And we didn't have a running game, so he had to do something.

So we'll see.
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Old 07-17-2012   #79
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Yeah 'cuz Seth Payne has any reason to engage in coach speak. Dude essentially never played with Kubiak, got cut by him and never played with Schaub - now there is only one person he played with on the team. Yet he went out of his way to use Schaub as an example of leadership while talking to a different team.

Of course "coach speak" is the easy out for anyone who wants to disagree with players.

Sorry you see quitter - for you that is.
I haven't seen enough of Matt in must-win situations to form much of an opinion regarding his leadership.

But I hope we get to see a lot more of TJ this season.
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Old 07-17-2012   #80
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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Originally Posted by BullBlitz View Post
I haven't seen enough of Matt in must-win situations to form much of an opinion regarding his leadership.

But I hope we get to see a lot more of TJ this season.
Schaub has a very good come back record. What do you need to see? Oh but you already formed the opinion you want to see more TJ.

Why would you ever want to see your back up QB in the game much less one who so far has averaged 100 yds and 10 pts a game less on top of a 1 to 2 INT ratio instead of 2 to 1?
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