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Old 07-12-2012   #41
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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Oh and be sure to retain that patient & benevolent "Let's not focus on mistakes; they all make mistakes" attitude when you're evaluating our coaching staff... Or when Foster/Tate fumbles on the goal line... or when K.J. doesn't look back to make a "sure" INT
That won't be a problem for me.
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Old 07-13-2012   #42
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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Oh and be sure to retain that patient & benevolent "Let's not focus on mistakes; they all make mistakes" attitude when you're evaluating our coaching staff... Or when Foster/Tate fumbles on the goal line... or when K.J. doesn't look back to make a "sure" INT
hmmmm....which part of "rookie season" is confusing you?

I expect TJ to improve in order to fulfill our hope in him. If he's making the same mistakes this season, then progress has not been made and the gloves come off.
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Old 07-13-2012   #43
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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hmmmm....which part of "rookie season" is confusing you?

I expect TJ to improve in order to fulfill our hope in him. If he's making the same mistakes this season, then progress has not been made and the gloves come off.
That's why I say he needs more seasoning as opposed to saying trade/cut his butt now. I think there's potential for development.

My responses are largely in opposition to some who seem ready to put Schaub out to pasture this season and hand the reins to Yates now.
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Old 07-13-2012   #44
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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That won't be a problem for me.
I know, dude. You were certainly patient with Jacoby when most were ready to string him up.
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Old 07-14-2012   #45
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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That's why I say he needs more seasoning as opposed to saying trade/cut his butt now. I think there's potential for development.

My responses are largely in opposition to some who seem ready to put Schaub out to pasture this season and hand the reins to Yates now.
Well, I've been arguing for TJ's potential as a starter in this league, but I don't think he's anywhere near ready to take the reins from Schaub. I fervently believe that if Schaub hadn't gone down, we would have had homefield through the playoffs and we would have at least been in the SB.
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Old 07-14-2012   #46
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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Well, I've been arguing for TJ's potential as a starter in this league, but I don't think he's anywhere near ready to take the reins from Schaub. I fervently believe that if Schaub hadn't gone down, we would have had homefield through the playoffs and we would have at least been in the SB.
I think it's two totally different questions that many people here can't seem to separate.

Schaub's the starter, it's not even a question. He's miles ahead of Yates & will beat him in any objective contest; won't even be close.

Tj, the question is does he have a future in the NFL. To me, the answer to this question tells me how tight I should pucker up when Schaub gets hit. Tells me how much activity I should expect with Schaub's contract negotiations.

I feel like Tj is just as competent as Dalton or Newton & he's got room to improve, same as they do. I'm confident that he will improve. If something were to happen to Matt this season, I won't have as much anxiety about the situation as I did last year.

I still believe Matt will take us farther, but it is what it is.
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Old 07-14-2012   #47
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I think it's two totally different questions that many people here can't seem to separate.

Schaub's the starter, it's not even a question. He's miles ahead of Yates & will beat him in any objective contest; won't even be close.

Tj, the question is does he have a future in the NFL. To me, the answer to this question tells me how tight I should pucker up when Schaub gets hit. Tells me how much activity I should expect with Schaub's contract negotiations.

I feel like Tj is just as competent as Dalton or Newton & he's got room to improve, same as they do. I'm confident that he will improve. If something were to happen to Matt this season, I won't have as much anxiety about the situation as I did last year.

I still believe Matt will take us farther, but it is what it is.
I agree with all of that especially the Dalton part. Cam has better physical gifts though and I think it's hard to make a real comparison there but I understand what you mean.

Yates played damn well all things considered last year.

Still shouldn't be a starter for this team, but I think he has the goods to be that guy in the future for us.
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Old 07-14-2012   #48
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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Still shouldn't be a starter for this team, but I think he has the goods to be that guy in the future for us.
So, if you were the Bengals & Yates was Dalton, you'd be looking for a QB right now?

If you were Miami & you had Yates, you would have drafted Ryan Tannehill with the 8th overall pick?
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Old 07-14-2012   #49
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So, if you were the Bengals & Yates was Dalton, you'd be looking for a QB right now?

If you were Miami & you had Yates, you would have drafted Ryan Tannehill with the 8th overall pick?
No I wouldn't...if I was in charge of those teams.

But I said for us. They don't have teams that are as good as ours is overall and they don't have a schaub already on the team.

That said, if schaub goes down I'm not scared. I like yates a whole lot.

Honestly I think Yates is going to look better than schaub in pre season. But still I would believe schaub should start.
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Old 07-14-2012   #50
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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No I wouldn't...if I was in charge of those teams.

But I said for us. They don't have teams that are as good as ours is overall and they don't have a schaub already on the team.

That said, if schaub goes down I'm not scared. I like yates a whole lot.

Honestly I think Yates is going to look better than schaub in pre season. But still I would believe schaub should start.
Right, that's where I'm at. Except I don't know if Yates will look better, I'm sure he'll be perceived as better.
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Old 07-15-2012   #51
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

He has a new QB coach. Maybe Dorrell will this years Vance Joseph and improve all QB play.
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Old 07-15-2012   #52
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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So, if you were the Bengals & Yates was Dalton, you'd be looking for a QB right now?

If you were Miami & you had Yates, you would have drafted Ryan Tannehill with the 8th overall pick?
I know you aren't talking to me but I think that's apples and oranges. If the Bengals still had a healthy Carson Palmer and Dalton was the heir apparent, then I'd probably be okay with that situation. Although I might keep looking to see who I could draft to "push" Dalton.

The Miami QB situation is just chaos. Has been for several seasons. And yeah, I would have drafted someone to push Yates just like Kubiak picked up Keenum so Yates wouldn't get too "comfortable".
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Old 07-15-2012   #53
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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I know you aren't talking to me but I think that's apples and oranges. If the Bengals still had a healthy Carson Palmer and Dalton was the heir apparent, then I'd probably be okay with that situation. Although I might keep looking to see who I could draft to "push" Dalton.
No, this isn't apples & oranges. My question is, do you think Yates is good enough to start in the NFL.

Not if he's good enough to start on this team. The Bengals are "comfortable" enough with their QB situation that they're going into next season with Dalton as their starter. There's no question about it. There won't be any QB competition in TC. When they bring another QB to the team, it will be as Dalton's back up.

Tj is in a situation now, where he won't start. That doesn't change his ability to start.
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The Miami QB situation is just chaos. Has been for several seasons. And yeah, I would have drafted someone to push Yates just like Kubiak picked up Keenum so Yates wouldn't get too "comfortable".
drafting someone to push Yates is not the same as drafting a QB in the top 10. Even a second rounder wold be considerable more than "pushing" a QB. You're saying you are not 100% that Yates is your guy.

If you're talking about a 5th rounder... he's not a threat to your starter. A UDFA, he's not a threat. If you draft a first rounder & a 4th rounder, you're admitting the QBs on your roster last season are ****.... (& we picked one of them up).

Take Schaub out of it. If you were a QB hungry team, would you feel good about Tj Yates starting for your club?
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Old 07-15-2012   #54
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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If you were a QB hungry team, would you feel good about Tj Yates starting for your club?
I'd be worried but hopeful.

I saw enough from him last year to think that he could grow into a good QB, possibly even a great one. If everything went right and he progressed the way he should, then I'd be very happy.

But QBs don't always progress. Some guys show you some talent and then never seem to mature. There was a time after his first or second season that Jim Everett was expected to be a great QB and he just fell apart. I'd be very scared that the Yates we had last year is the Yates we're going to continue to get and that's not good enough.

So I'd be worried.
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Old 07-15-2012   #55
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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I'd be worried but hopeful.

I saw enough from him last year to think that he could grow into a good QB, possibly even a great one. If everything went right and he progressed the way he should, then I'd be very happy.

But QBs don't always progress. Some guys show you some talent and then never seem to mature. There was a time after his first or second season that Jim Everett was expected to be a great QB and he just fell apart. I'd be very scared that the Yates we had last year is the Yates we're going to continue to get and that's not good enough.

So I'd be worried.

So you just don't want to say until it's already been proven, you'd like to have the benefit of HIndsight...... nothing wrong with that.

Can you look at Dalton & tell me whether or not the Bengals should focus on preparing their QB for game day, or if they should be looking for another QB?

Can you look at Newton & tell me whether the Panthers would be better off working with Cam or if they should be looking for their QB of the future?

Can you look at the Arizona Cardinals & tell me if you think it was a mistake or not, to not draft a QB in the first round?

If you cannot answer those three questions with a yes, then you're probably not qualified to answer my original question.

It doesn't matter that QBs don't always progress. It doesn't matter if his name is Tj Yates, Cam Newton, Ryan Leaf, or Drew Brees. There comes a time when some general manager has to make that decision, do they have their starter or not.

If you don't think Tj is a starter, that's fine. There's no harm in that. Next year, we better draft a QB we think can be that guy, facilitate a trade to bring that guy here, prepare to overpay for Matt Schaub, or one way or another have a contingency plan in the event that we can't keep him.

If you think Tj can be that guy, then you can make Schaub a reasonable offer this year. Not too much, not too little, give yourself a way out. If he signs, then you save yourself from having to compete with truly desparate teams in 2013.

If you're stuck on "it depends, let's wait & see" you're better off going with option one, because you ain't got your guy.
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Old 07-15-2012   #56
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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So you just don't want to say until it's already been proven, you'd like to have the benefit of HIndsight...... nothing wrong with that.

Can you look at Dalton & tell me whether or not the Bengals should focus on preparing their QB for game day, or if they should be looking for another QB?

Can you look at Newton & tell me whether the Panthers would be better off working with Cam or if they should be looking for their QB of the future?

Can you look at the Arizona Cardinals & tell me if you think it was a mistake or not, to not draft a QB in the first round?

If you cannot answer those three questions with a yes, then you're probably not qualified to answer my original question.

It doesn't matter that QBs don't always progress. It doesn't matter if his name is Tj Yates, Cam Newton, Ryan Leaf, or Drew Brees. There comes a time when some general manager has to make that decision, do they have their starter or not.

If you don't think Tj is a starter, that's fine. There's no harm in that. Next year, we better draft a QB we think can be that guy, facilitate a trade to bring that guy here, prepare to overpay for Matt Schaub, or one way or another have a contingency plan in the event that we can't keep him.

If you think Tj can be that guy, then you can make Schaub a reasonable offer this year. Not too much, not too little, give yourself a way out. If he signs, then you save yourself from having to compete with truly desparate teams in 2013.

If you're stuck on "it depends, let's wait & see" you're better off going with option one, because you ain't got your guy.

First off, you're approaching this like you're the general manager. I got news, you ain't. And neither am I.

Since I'm not someone who's in charge of making the decision, I don't have access to enough information to make that decision. Because... I'm a fan and I understand that I'm a fan.

I'm not Obsi-wan. I don't remember what your original question was and I don't give a rat's ass what your original question was. I was responding to the question that I quoted in my post.

If you had asked me after a season of Peyton Manning or Drew Brees or Jim Druckenmiller in their rookie seasons, I would be giving you the same exact answer I gave you about TJ Yates. I'm not claiming to be prescient and I'm not claiming to be an expert on QB development.

As a FAN, I'd be perfectly happy if the GM and Coaching Staff decide that Yates has shown them that he has what it takes. But as a fan, all I can do is take a look at the moves they make and try to figure out what they wrt Yates and his development.

Based on those alone, they seem to be comfortable with him being their prospective #1. At least until they make moves to prove otherwise. The moves they've made this offseason seem to me to say that they expect TJ to develop at least into a competent backup if not into something more.

BTW, if you look at the questions you asked, you didn't ask them as yes/no questions so no one can answer them with a "yes." And wrt those questions:
1 - I think Dalton could develop into a great QB. If I were the Bengals, I wouldn't be looking for a starter.
2 - I think Newton could develop into a great QB although I expect him to have a few good years and then fall apart. I wouldn't be looking for another QB at this point if I were them.
3 - The Cardinals are a little more problematic. I thought Kolb was going to play a lot better than he did. I'm not totally sold that Kolb is a washout, but he could be. The Cards might not have a choice about this, though. They've sunk a lot into him and they may have to find a way to make the QB position work with what they've got. Whisenhunt could be sunk.
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Old 07-16-2012   #57
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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I'm not Obsi-wan.
That was my original problem. My bad.

But that was a good post you made.... maybe we should piss you off more often.

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Old 07-16-2012   #58
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

I have no problem playing GM to me TJ Yates has a higher likehood of turning into Drew Brees than a Matt Schaub type of QB. He has some grit to his game/toughness with good escapability, he has quick release & competitive edge/accepts responsibility. Might as well get this off my chest while I'm at it as well. Schaub just isn't athletic enough in my book, reminds me of Dan Fouts in the pocket. Puts up great stats but never wins big games when they count. While his Gomer Pile looks & disinterested mannerisms on sideline have nothing to do with anything it still bothers me.
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Old 07-16-2012   #59
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
I have no problem playing GM to me TJ Yates has a higher likehood of turning into Drew Brees than a Matt Schaub type of QB. He has some grit to his game/toughness with good escapability, he has quick release & competitive edge/accepts responsibility. Might as well get this off my chest while I'm at it as well. Schaub just isn't athletic enough in my book, reminds me of Dan Fouts in the pocket. Puts up great stats but never wins big games when they count. While his Gomer Pile looks & disinterested mannerisms on sideline have nothing to do with anything it still bothers me.
Well, we know athleticism isn't the end all be all of QBs. Kurt Warner is going into the Hall of Fame, he's won multiple Super Bowls & was an MVP. & he's put up some stats.

But he's probably about as mobile as Schaub.

So it's okay not to be mobile, but, you've got to have something else to make up for it. Warner had a hall-of-famer who was probably the best baller of all time.... in St Louis.

Warner had an understanding of the game that allowed him to break down defenses way before the snap & a way to communicate with his receivers that had to have been telepathic.

I think Matt is getting there with his understanding of the game. How else is he able to rack up the stats he does year after year? But he ain't there yet.

But I think you hit the nail on the head with your statement about Yates. Grit & game/toughness... if he can step those up a notch like he did in 2009, he can be Warneresque in my opinion.
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Old 07-16-2012   #60
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

One more thing.

IF Schaub had that "grit & game/toughness" I bet he would have a big contract with the Texans right now.

I'll admit I was wrong, I was calling it leadership. But you're right Beerlover, it's grit/toughness that he's missing. That competitive edge on every play.
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