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Old 07-05-2012   #21
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
When he was running away from the side of play and passing back to the opposite side, I was not impressed with his arm strength. And this is where you expect true arm strength to be demonstrated.
I think you're asking for a little too much, Doc.

Here's a pass Yates threw against LSU in the first game of his Senior season:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ojj_D4Zp5w

The spot he threw the ball from (that I can see clearly on my better game tape) is right at the top of the Numbers. The spot where he threw the ball to was about two yards plus inside the Numbers.

From where he set up to where the receiver grabbed the ball was about 57 linear yards.

On the run, throwing across his body, I'd say that's plenty enough arm strength.

That's more than enough as compared to this pass to AJ:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wV-u...eature=related

This one wasn't quite a 50-yd bomb as the title proclaims, but Yates did have to throw more to the inside (more across his body). It was good enough to hit AJ in stride, and that's all that matters.
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Old 07-05-2012   #22
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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I've seen the arm strength and the athleticism. I'm still waiting on the accuracy; three picks on his record and several near-picks and called back picks say, to me, accuracy isn't there yet. And I think the intelligence is likely there - he's never looked lost or clueless - so with experience he'll be less likely to be fooled by those good defenses you mentioned.

Can't tell if an acorn will be a big oak tree unless it starts to grow. Until it does, it's just another nut.
Obsi, this same line applies to Andy Dalton and Cam Newton.

And obviously, Gabbert doesn't even qualify to be in the conversation.
He was too busy ducking and chucking.
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Old 07-05-2012   #23
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

I think TJ will be our next starting QB. Either this year if Matt falters or is injured again, or next year if they decide not to break the bank to sign Matt. He has the ability, just needs experience.
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Old 07-05-2012   #24
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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I think you're asking for a little too much, Doc.

Here's a pass Yates threw against LSU in the first game of his Senior season:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ojj_D4Zp5w

The spot he threw the ball from (that I can see clearly on my better game tape) is right at the top of the Numbers. The spot where he threw the ball to was about two yards plus inside the Numbers.

From where he set up to where the receiver grabbed the ball was about 57 linear yards.

On the run, throwing across his body, I'd say that's plenty enough arm strength.

That's more than enough as compared to this pass to AJ:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wV-u...eature=related

This one wasn't quite a 50-yd bomb as the title proclaims, but Yates did have to throw more to the inside (more across his body). It was good enough to hit AJ in stride, and that's all that matters.
Your first video was impressive, but it's difficult to see how really far to his left on the field the receiver was. Yates did not seem to be throwing across his body. The second video shows him with time to set and the pass was not across his body.

There were a couple of plays last year that TJ was trying to throw the ball acutely across his body while running away (to the right side of the field, without a set) from the receiver (positioned on the left side of the field).
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Old 07-10-2012   #25
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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Obsi, this same line applies to Andy Dalton and Cam Newton.

And obviously, Gabbert doesn't even qualify to be in the conversation.
He was too busy ducking and chucking.
The jury is still out on those two guys also.
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Old 07-10-2012   #26
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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Obsi, this same line applies to Andy Dalton and Cam Newton.
More or less, that's what I'm talking about. Those two guys are starters and no one is threatening or pushing them. They are by no means finished products, but their organizations believe they have something to build on.

Do we have that in TJ, that's the question. I believe we do. Matt Schaub is the starter & will be the starter, which is why I said leave him out of the equation. He's a luxury we have right now, allowing Tj to develop at a slower pace.

What I think will be interesting, is how will Kubiak treat him. He's always said that Matt's his QB, & it doesn't matter if we're losing by 50 or winning by 50, Matt will be in the game.

I wonder if he'll take that same approach in 2012.
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Old 07-10-2012   #27
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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More or less, that's what I'm talking about. Those two guys are starters and no one is threatening or pushing them. They are by no means finished products, but their organizations believe they have something to build on.

Do we have that in TJ, that's the question. I believe we do. Matt Schaub is the starter & will be the starter, which is why I said leave him out of the equation. He's a luxury we have right now, allowing Tj to develop at a slower pace.

What I think will be interesting, is how will Kubiak treat him. He's always said that Matt's his QB, & it doesn't matter if we're losing by 50 or winning by 50, Matt will be in the game.

I wonder if he'll take that same approach in 2012.
If we're up or down by 50, then I wouldn't mind TJ seeing the field.
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Old 07-10-2012   #28
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

I think TJ is going to be okay. Schaub was not a regular starter until his 4th year in the league. I think TJ did alright last year under the circumstances and considering his lack of reps.

I think holding the 3 picks against a top rated defense in the playoffs against him is short-sighted. Even Tom Brady, arguably one of the greatest QBs ever, threw 3 picks against a Ravens D in the first quarter of a playoff game. I think it says more about the Ravens defense being consistently badass than anything about a rook QB in the second round of a playoff game on the road in a hostile stadium. JMO
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Old 07-10-2012   #29
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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I think TJ is going to be okay. Schaub was not a regular starter until his 4th year in the league. I think TJ did alright last year under the circumstances and considering his lack of reps.

I think holding the 3 picks against a top rated defense in the playoffs against him is short-sighted. Even Tom Brady, arguably one of the greatest QBs ever, threw 3 picks against a Ravens D in the first quarter of a playoff game. I think it says more about the Ravens defense being consistently badass than anything about a rook QB in the second round of a playoff game on the road in a hostile stadium. JMO
Agree generally. On TJ I think he has potential if he gets to sit for awhile. I agree looking just at the Ravens game is not fair. Looking over his starts he was 4 TD's and 6 INT's. Half a TD per game doesn't cut it nor does having more INT's than TD's. Obviously that needs improvement. This off-season should be huge for him.

On Schaub not starting for awhile - he was sitting behind the highest paid most hyped player in the NFL and even with that fans were bringing posters to games for him to start. It was reported two teams offered at least 1st round picks for him the year before we got him. The growing controversy played a significant role in us getting him.
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Old 07-10-2012   #30
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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On Schaub not starting for awhile - he was sitting behind the highest paid most hyped player in the NFL and even with that fans were bringing posters to games for him to start. It was reported two teams offered at least 1st round picks for him the year before we got him. The growing controversy played a significant role in us getting him.
There's nothing wrong with that. There's no way anyone can convince me (not that I matter) sitting on the bench a year, or two, or three, or four is going to hurt a QBs development. Now if he's got Pete Ramsey or Rex Grossman starting ahead of him then that four year bench rider just ain't got it.

There ain't no shame sitting behind Mike Vick, or Matt Schaub.

With that said, there are some QBs that are tough enough, mentally, to be able to start from day one, or some time their rookie year, but most are not. We've seen many, many examples of that.

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Old 07-11-2012   #31
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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Agree generally. On TJ I think he has potential if he gets to sit for awhile. I agree looking just at the Ravens game is not fair. Looking over his starts he was 4 TD's and 6 INT's. Half a TD per game doesn't cut it nor does having more INT's than TD's. Obviously that needs improvement. This off-season should be huge for him.

On Schaub not starting for awhile - he was sitting behind the highest paid most hyped player in the NFL and even with that fans were bringing posters to games for him to start. It was reported two teams offered at least 1st round picks for him the year before we got him. The growing controversy played a significant role in us getting him.
That lack of offense also came without Andre Johnson, which without this offense is not even close to the same, we have noone to stretch the field and it was obvious that everyone started to stack up on us.
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Old 07-11-2012   #32
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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That lack of offense also came without Andre Johnson, which without this offense is not even close to the same, we have noone to stretch the field and it was obvious that everyone started to stack up on us.
Which would be a great argument except AJ played 4 of 10 games with Schaub and 5 of 8 with TJ.

Schaub's last six games didn't have AJ and they were averaging 27 ppg.
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Old 07-12-2012   #33
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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I think TJ is going to be okay. Schaub was not a regular starter until his 4th year in the league. I think TJ did alright last year under the circumstances and considering his lack of reps.

I think holding the 3 picks against a top rated defense in the playoffs against him is short-sighted. Even Tom Brady, arguably one of the greatest QBs ever, threw 3 picks against a Ravens D in the first quarter of a playoff game. I think it says more about the Ravens defense being consistently badass than anything about a rook QB in the second round of a playoff game on the road in a hostile stadium. JMO
Okay what about when Yates nearly gave away the Atlanta game with that pick-six to start the fourth quarter that was called back due to Dunta's defensive holding? What should have been a simple swing pass to Foster nearly ended in disaster because Yates chucked it without seeing that Foster was covered.

The Falcons have a decent defense but not one that will ever be confused for the Ravens' D.

The kid has just had too many WTF moments in each game for me to annoint him Schaub's successor at this point; he needs more seasoning.
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Old 07-12-2012   #34
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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Okay what about when Yates nearly gave away the Atlanta game...

The kid has just had too many WTF moments in each game for me to annoint him Schaub's successor at this point; he needs more seasoning.
Do you watch other Qbs in the league? Brady & Manning have had similar moments not to mention Dalton, Cam, Stanton, and Bradford. Let's not focus on mistakes, they all make mistakes, instead let's look at the frequency & how they respond.
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Old 07-12-2012   #35
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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What I think will be interesting, is how will Kubiak treat him. He's always said that Matt's his QB, & it doesn't matter if we're losing by 50 or winning by 50, Matt will be in the game.

I wonder if he'll take that same approach in 2012.
I hope not. There is nothing like live fire.
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Old 07-12-2012   #36
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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Okay what about when Yates nearly gave away the Atlanta game with that pick-six to start the fourth quarter that was called back due to Dunta's defensive holding? What should have been a simple swing pass to Foster nearly ended in disaster because Yates chucked it without seeing that Foster was covered.

The Falcons have a decent defense but not one that will ever be confused for the Ravens' D.

The kid has just had too many WTF moments in each game for me to annoint him Schaub's successor at this point; he needs more seasoning.
I try to be pragmatic about TJ. I do not advocate that he's ready to start right now, but I also take into account that he was a late round rookie with little reps thrown into a fire that had a lot of pressure to it. Some of the criticism of the dude seems excessive, like he completely melted down and cost us a chance in the playoffs.

Instead, we saw a very inexperienced player making mistakes, but also making some plays that helped win games. Kubiak had him in position to be a game manager, and I do think that a full off-season with him getting reps as a backup, getting the attention of the coaching staff and film study, and knowing he's second-in-command going into the season will make him a better player. So yeah, completely agree about needing more seasoning. Most of them do as rookies in the NFL.

I'm not comparing TJ to Peyton, but rather using Manning's rookie season as a reference. Dude threw 28 picks in his first year. If a HoF QB can suck as a rookie, I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt to TJ accordingly.

And you know, you are not really required to anoint TJ as successor to Schaub when the head coach has already done so.
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Old 07-12-2012   #37
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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I do think that a full off-season with him getting reps as a backup, getting the attention of the coaching staff and film study, and knowing he's second-in-command going into the season will make him a better player.
I think the Texans made two decisions this off-season. Schaub would be healthy and they would concentrate on advancing TJ as much as possible. TJ by all reports has been a dedicated guy and has been working hard with Schaub and then has been getting 1st team reps. It is the absolutely best scenario for him to develop. I am not so critical of TJ last season as the anti-Schaub crowd hyping TJ as anything close to as good. If healthy, Schaub clearly gives the better chance to win. Hopefully this off-season narrows that gap a lot.
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Old 07-12-2012   #38
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I think the Texans made two decisions this off-season. Schaub would be healthy and they would concentrate on advancing TJ as much as possible. TJ by all reports has been a dedicated guy and has been working hard with Schaub and then has been getting 1st team reps. It is the absolutely best scenario for him to develop. I am not so critical of TJ last season as the anti-Schaub crowd hyping TJ as anything close to as good. If healthy, Schaub clearly gives the better chance to win. Hopefully this off-season narrows that gap a lot.
I truly believe that we would have seen the Texans in the AFC Championship game if Schaub had been healthy. And considering the way that the Patriots palyed that game...

Definitely agree that Schaub is our best chance. No doubt about it in my mind.

But, I think we have a competent backup in TJ that might, someday, be able to step into the role of starter and play consistently at a high level.
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Old 07-12-2012   #39
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Do you watch other Qbs in the league? Brady & Manning have had similar moments not to mention Dalton, Cam, Stanton, and Bradford. Let's not focus on mistakes, they all make mistakes, instead let's look at the frequency & how they respond.
Don't care about them. They don't play for the Texans.


Okay... after that faux pas I think he threw two more passes - in a 19-play drive - the rest of the game. To me, he looked rattled.

And his mistakes outweigh his successes if you count the INTs that should have been due to penalties or dropped picks. I don't seem to recall any TDs that should have been due to our guys dropping "for sure" TD catches. But I'm sure you guys will probably invent one or two. J/K


Look, IIRC, the original query was does Yates have what it takes to be an NFL starter? Right? Well, that's a pretty open-ended question when you think about it and then look back at some of the bozos who've been allowed to start in this league. My answer to that was and still is, he shouldn't be allowed to start ahead of the guy we have now, Matt Schaub.
Not yet.

Will Yates get become a quality starter? Perhaps. My question is which guy will get there first, him or Case Keenum? As long as one of them blossoms into a top-5 or 6 level QB, I'm happy.


Oh and be sure to retain that patient & benevolent "Let's not focus on mistakes; they all make mistakes" attitude when you're evaluating our coaching staff... Or when Foster/Tate fumbles on the goal line... or when K.J. doesn't look back to make a "sure" INT
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Old 07-12-2012   #40
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Default Re: Some Offseason Love for TJ Yates

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Will Yates get become a quality starter? Perhaps. My question is which guy will get there first, him or Case Keenum? As long as one of them blossoms into a top-5 or 6 level QB, I'm happy.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Yep. Exactly.
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