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Old 06-06-2012   #81
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Default Re: Texans GM Emotionally Detached????

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I took from the article/quotes that Rick Smith said he has grown to a level of being a bit detached from emotions. It's been a process. I even think Bob McNair has had to find an inner resolve to detach a bit, as well.

There was a time when we reached for raw players like Amobi and Jacoby, and that came crashing down to the point that both guys are gone and our most recent draft saw no such surprises. They've abandoned a strategy that was part of their "old history."

They also, a bit further back, were not opposed to acquiring the Todd Wades, and the Eric Moulds, and the Ahman Greens of the NFL--the "One Last Payday" crew. This old history, as well, was tanked when McNair and Smith boldly announced that the Texans would no longer be a welcome harbor for aging vets looking for a final payday somewhere.

Another departure from their history is the recent actions of cutting Winston, trading DeMeco, and letting Mario walk completely away. That's not the Texans I knew! The Texans I knew would have kept Winston and Ryans out of pure sentimental reasons. There's nothing like having your back against a wall (cap space) to make you depart from your own history of how we do things. This was not mismanagement of cap space, either, IMO, it was a playoff push mindset in 2011 that was made earlier in 2011 and they waited to pay the bill when it came due in this off-season.

Nobody would have expected the Texans to cut Winston. Nobody would have expected us to trade DeMeco. The half-hearted and maybe even "paltry" offer they made Mario was another sign of how the times are a'changing.

I am definitely including their full history. The recent history looks a lot better than their prior history. And if recent history continues to pay dividends, then they will continue to do business in that "new history" manner until something forces them to change tactics. All in all, we're in the best shape in franchise history...I just think we're so accustomed to being mediocre that we find ourselves distrustful of each new year that greets us.




Hang on a sec, I still maintain that there was nowhere near the level of Mario Love that you're projecting here. And I won't go and research it either...hell, it takes long enough for me to write my own thoughts on topics, let alone research thousands of posts and do an essay on it. And nobody wants me to, either. I'm thinking about asking for the Dragon talk-to-text software because my posts are so long. LOL.

The point here is that people saw a bit of talent in Mario that made it nonsense to dismiss the guy completely. His value to this team was that he was probably the most talented guy on what had been a really bad defense for a really long time. He was the star on a sub-standard defense, he made his sacks and he made his run tackles, etc., and there's no way we could lump him in with guys like Travis Johnson and Amobi Okoye. He was, IMO, a sort of stabilizer and not a game changing force on a consistent basis. When we paid him chump change compared to what a Houston texans-Reggie Bush would have looked like, everybody should have known that he was going to play that contract out and IF he survived the MW-VY-RB nuclear war then Mario was going to make sure he got rewarded handsomely for it.

Nobody here felt he was worth his asking price, but IF he could stay then that would be fine. The battle lines I think you are referring to, IMO, exist between the small faction of Mario Lovers and Mario Haters who took an extreme partisan slant on the issue. The majority of people here, from what I gathered in looking at the threads AND participating in the threads too, felt that while he was valued he shouldn't be THE guy on what has become a defense of collective ass-kickers. I don't see that situation containing much flip-flopping, actually. If a few posters reversed their position, then so what? But it's definitely not like everyone [b]rooted for the Confederacy one day and [/B]then welcomed the Union forces with open arms the next. Not the way I remember it, at least.
Was this a Josey Wales referral to the ferry tow boat guy. "Look away Dixie Land...Mine eyes have seen the glory of..."
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Old 06-06-2012   #82
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Default Re: Texans GM Emotionally Detached????

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Oh I don't see Antonio Smith going for anything but the BEST he can get. He is way too intense of a personality to take a bonus and then play for a low salary. He'll still think he's being slighted. He is a 100%'er...he thinks if HE gives 100% then the organization better give that 100% right back. I love the guy's effort out there, I truly think he's a role model for the players on defense, but he will not take kindly to getting bonus'd and then playing for a small salary, IMO.

No, I think Antonio Smith and Wade Smith are likely going to be gone. With the way Wade Phillips is expertly throwing together the DL and LB crews...there's a DL guy out there just waiting to become Antonio's replacement....for a rookie's salary that stretches over four years.
Why would Antonio be upset for getting more money in his hands more quickly?
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Old 06-07-2012   #83
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Default Re: Texans GM Emotionally Detached????

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Why would Antonio be upset for getting more money in his hands more quickly?
Pride. Ego. Perception. Etc.
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Old 06-07-2012   #84
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Default Re: Texans GM Emotionally Detached????

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Was this a Josey Wales referral to the ferry tow boat guy. "Look away Dixie Land...Mine eyes have seen the glory of..."
Not intentionally, but now I remember that scene! Great movie.
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Old 06-07-2012   #85
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Default Re: Texans GM Emotionally Detached????

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Oh I don't see Antonio Smith going for anything but the BEST he can get. He is way too intense of a personality to take a bonus and then play for a low salary.
OK then. I forgot about the "way too intense" factor. My bad.
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Old 06-07-2012   #86
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Default Re: Texans GM Emotionally Detached????

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OK then. I forgot about the "way too intense" factor. My bad.
Har har.

Doesn't he seem like he's probably got it figured out how he wants his career to go, what he wants from the Texans the next time around?

I am not saying he's not a team player. I am saying that he very much comes across as a guy who commits 100% and then expects that same level of support when the papers hit his desk for signing.

Nobody was shocked Kevin Walter took a reduction. I would be very surprised if Antonio took a big bonus and then played for a small salary. In fact, there's no guarantee that the Texans will even offer anything to him with the way our defense has been built.

Out of all the upcoming expiring contracts, Antonio Smith is the one I have pegged for the player (Antonio) making a bit of noise. He will feel he's played himself into better money than he's going to be offered. The drive, the motor, the commitment to moving along the line wherever we want him each year...it could come to a boil, IMO.
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Old 06-07-2012   #87
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Default Re: Texans GM Emotionally Detached????

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I am not saying he's not a team player.
The forum rules prevent me from telling you what I really think.
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Old 06-08-2012   #88
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The forum rules prevent me from telling you what I really think.
Then PM me.
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Old 06-08-2012   #89
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Default Re: Texans GM Emotionally Detached????

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Sure, it's all fan perception at the end of the day, but it gets derived based off of actions or lack there of by management depending on the situations with different players. .
I think the changes have more to do with Rick Smith assuming more power/control than with Rick Smith changing.

There was a rumor that I bought into (don't remember the source but I believed it) that Rick Smith desperately wanted an extensive interview process for Defensive Coordinator after the 2008 season but Gary Kubiak wanted Frank Bush. I think the 2010 season failure created a shift of power between Kubiak and Smith... While I believe they have a cooperative relationship, my sense is Smith now has the final say on many personnel matters...

It certainly stands to reason that Kubiak was the one slow to give up on players and coaches. One of his strengths as a leader is his belief and support of those he leads. Instead of trying to change Kubiak, McNair has simply removed the responsibilities Kubiak's giftings don't mesh with. Smith has never been accused of being close with the players. If you recall, Richard Justice slammed him in a column years ago quoting unnamed sources on the team who were complaining about his aloofness and lack of trustworthiness- it was the article responding to the firing of the former trainer, I believe.
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Old 06-08-2012   #90
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Default Re: Texans GM Emotionally Detached????

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Was this a Josey Wales referral to the ferry tow boat guy. "Look away Dixie Land...Mine eyes have seen the glory of..."
MSR for Josey Wales reference.

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Smith has never been accused of being close with the players. If you recall, Richard Justice slammed him in a column years ago quoting unnamed sources on the team who were complaining about his aloofness and lack of trustworthiness...
Ahman Green said this publicly in a radio interview a year or two ago.
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Old 06-08-2012   #91
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Default Re: Texans GM Emotionally Detached????

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I think the changes have more to do with Rick Smith assuming more power/control than with Rick Smith changing.

There was a rumor that I bought into (don't remember the source but I believed it) that Rick Smith desperately wanted an extensive interview process for Defensive Coordinator after the 2008 season but Gary Kubiak wanted Frank Bush. I think the 2010 season failure created a shift of power between Kubiak and Smith... While I believe they have a cooperative relationship, my sense is Smith now has the final say on many personnel matters...

It certainly stands to reason that Kubiak was the one slow to give up on players and coaches. One of his strengths as a leader is his belief and support of those he leads. Instead of trying to change Kubiak, McNair has simply removed the responsibilities Kubiak's giftings don't mesh with. Smith has never been accused of being close with the players. If you recall, Richard Justice slammed him in a column years ago quoting unnamed sources on the team who were complaining about his aloofness and lack of trustworthiness- it was the article responding to the firing of the former trainer, I believe.
You mean the former trainer that Justice was using for an inside source for all the dirt he could dig up to make himself look good? Consider the source for what it is, and the real reason why he wrote that.
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Old 06-08-2012   #92
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I think the changes have more to do with Rick Smith assuming more power/control than with Rick Smith changing.

There was a rumor that I bought into (don't remember the source but I believed it) that Rick Smith desperately wanted an extensive interview process for Defensive Coordinator after the 2008 season but Gary Kubiak wanted Frank Bush. I think the 2010 season failure created a shift of power between Kubiak and Smith... While I believe they have a cooperative relationship, my sense is Smith now has the final say on many personnel matters...

It certainly stands to reason that Kubiak was the one slow to give up on players and coaches. One of his strengths as a leader is his belief and support of those he leads. Instead of trying to change Kubiak, McNair has simply removed the responsibilities Kubiak's giftings don't mesh with. Smith has never been accused of being close with the players. If you recall, Richard Justice slammed him in a column years ago quoting unnamed sources on the team who were complaining about his aloofness and lack of trustworthiness- it was the article responding to the firing of the former trainer, I believe.
McNair early this year also said that Dom's inability to fire assistants and coordinators was Dom's downfall--Meaning that McNair had to fire Dom because the 2-14 record was a result of Dom sticking with his guys too long.

McNair then said, whether it was direct or indirect I cannot recall, that Gary faced a Dom moment after 2010--Gary could have stood by Bush and charged recklessly into 2011, or he could have fired Bush and moved on.

What isn't agreed upon is the exact person(s) responsible for the Wade Phillips selection. I think Gary is not a logical choice in terms of him being the guy who identified and wanted Wade Phillips. Instead, my current theory is Rick and/or Bob had their eye on Wade, and Bum's lunch with Bob sealed the deal. Gary, IMO, was probably ready and willing to wash his hands of selecting d-coords and gladly rubber stamped the deal......because after all, Gary wisely understands that Wade would be a BOB MCNAIR selection, which means you better toe the line when Bob shows an affinity for someone. Plus, if Wade fails...it's on Bob this time. Win-win for Gary.
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Old 06-10-2012   #93
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Default Re: Texans GM Emotionally Detached????

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Plus, if Wade fails...it's on Bob this time. Win-win for Gary.
There was no "win-win" for Kubiak. Either Phillips succeeded, and everyone kept their job. Or Phillips faied, and everyone was out on the street.

Kubiak and Smith's jobs were teetering on the edge, when McNair decided to bring Wade in and give Kubiak one last chance. The move payed off (thus far). But, it was McNair's move.
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Old 06-11-2012   #94
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Default Re: Texans GM Emotionally Detached????

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There was no "win-win" for Kubiak. Either Phillips succeeded, and everyone kept their job. Or Phillips faied, and everyone was out on the street.

Kubiak and Smith's jobs were teetering on the edge, when McNair decided to bring Wade in and give Kubiak one last chance. The move payed off (thus far). But, it was McNair's move.
Cant rep you.

But this is the way it went down. IMHO
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Old 06-11-2012   #95
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Default Re: Texans GM Emotionally Detached????

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There was no "win-win" for Kubiak. Either Phillips succeeded, and everyone kept their job. Or Phillips faied, and everyone was out on the street.

Kubiak and Smith's jobs were teetering on the edge, when McNair decided to bring Wade in and give Kubiak one last chance. The move payed off (thus far). But, it was McNair's move.
Absolutely no way on earth would McNair have fired Kubiak and Smith if the defense failed again. And every bit of our season hinged upon NOT Kubiak's offense (since it's already a perennial producer) but rather our season hinged upon the defense rebounding and holding off the other three teams in our division. Period.

Your'e saying Bob McNair handed Wade Phillips the 2011 draft, gave him two top-flight free agents (who are arguably tying up some cap space money), and let Wade slide the pieces of the puzzle around all over the field (Mario to OLB and Cushing to MLB for example) to make the 34 defense work with what Wade had...and somehow Kubiak and Smith would have been out on the street after 2011 if we hadn't made playoffs???

Plus, factor in the injuries we sustained on offense: Schaub, AJ, Foster, Leinart, Brisiel.

Plus Plus, factor in a lockout shortened year where nobody on the Texans D really knew the 34 playbook well enough to convince people that the Texans D would be Top 3 all year long.

You even go so far as to say EVERYONE would be out on the street, You seriously think Bob would toss his HC, his GM, and his brand new DC who is Bum Phillips' son??? LOL, slow down tiger. McNair isn't that bold yet.

Normally I'm the one with conspiracy theories, but Lucky your post takes the cake and you might be the new champion. It takes a lot of creativity to post what you posted.

In summation:

1. Hired BUM PHILLIPS son. That's a McNair hire, as you say in your post.

2. Gave Wade the draft in 2011, except for the TJ Yates pick.

3. Gave Wade two top-flight players in free agency. Tying up a lot of cap space for the future.

4. Kubiak's offense, despite catastrophic injuries all year long, still produces what we all know a Kubiak offense to produce. Therefore this is not even up for debate if Kubiak's side of the football was going to endanger our playoff hopes or not in 2011.

5. Lockout-shortened season should have hindered the Texans D and would have been used as an excuse by everyone from top to bottom in the Texans front offices.

6. After all the above data, you're going to say that Kubiak and Smith--and possibly "everyone"--was going to be out of a job if 2011 didn't produce a playoff year for us?

McNair played too many chips just to fold the hand after 2011. He was committed to seeing this thing through.
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Old 06-11-2012   #96
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Default Re: Texans GM Emotionally Detached????

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Cant rep you.

But this is the way it went down. IMHO
Re-examine the argument before committing rep to Lucky.
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Old 06-11-2012   #97
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Default Re: Texans GM Emotionally Detached????

Cliffs Notes version (for those who hate a GP novel-length post):

Gary Kubiak's job was safe the day he fired Frank Bush.

Bob expected Gary to drop the axe on Frank, and Gary did the hatchet job as he should have. Bob went on, in candid remarks just this past January or February, to spell out how Gary fortunately understood what Dom Capers did not.

It was a win-win for Kubiak because he wasn't going anywhere after 2011 no matter what happened, i.e. all the things I posted about earlier.
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Old 06-11-2012   #98
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Default Re: Texans GM Emotionally Detached????

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There was no "win-win" for Kubiak. Either Phillips succeeded, and everyone kept their job. Or Phillips faied, and everyone was out on the street.

Kubiak and Smith's jobs were teetering on the edge, when McNair decided to bring Wade in and give Kubiak one last chance. The move payed off (thus far). But, it was McNair's move.
As speculation goes, which is the bulk of this thread, I think this is the scenario that makes the most sense.

McNair is loyal, but he's also a very successful businessman. His customers - the fans - were growing tired of a decade of futility.

If the team had failed to make the playoffs in 2011, especially with Manning out for the season and the three other teams as weak as we have ever seen them in 10 years, I think McNair would have had to do something bold to show Texans Nation that he was more committed to building a winning product than he was committed to a head coach that could not make the playoffs after six seasons.

He would be risking his brand being considered the Bungles south if he continued to support a head coach that could not be successful after 6 seasons. And prior to 2011, that was pretty much the mood of the fanbase, local media, and the national perception of his franchise.

But, as history shows, he never had to make that call.
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Old 06-11-2012   #99
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Originally Posted by GP View Post
Cliffs Notes version (for those who hate a GP novel-length post):

Gary Kubiak's job was safe the day he fired Frank Bush.

Bob expected Gary to drop the axe on Frank, and Gary did the hatchet job as he should have. Bob went on, in candid remarks just this past January or February, to spell out how Gary fortunately understood what Dom Capers did not.

It was a win-win for Kubiak because he wasn't going anywhere after 2011 no matter what happened, i.e. all the things I posted about earlier.
Frank Bush was Kubiak's choice for DC when Kubiak took the Texans' HC job in 2006.

Arizona wouldn't release Frank Bush.

We rolled with Richard Smith.

Frank Bush was released from Arizona and became a part of the Houston Texans in 2007.

The Texans defense was putrid in 2006 (24th), 2007 (24th), & 2008 (22nd).

At no time, did I feel that Frank Bush was the heir apparent. Maybe there was something here or there that alluded to that fact. In an attempt to not rewrite history, lets just say that it took 3 poor seasons from Richard Smith, 2 with Frank Bush as his (or Gary's) right hand man, before Bush finally supplanted Smith & instead of happening immediately as is usually the case when a position is filled internally, the process was pretty drawn out.

Some say (& it's just supposition) that Gary held on to Smith too long out of some kind of loyalty. Some say (& again, it is purely supposition) that Frank Bush was the only option...

But, what if Rick Smith and/or Bob McNair failed to see the leadership traits they'd like in Frank Bush & that is the reason he didn't supplant Richard Smith earlier. What if they were still cautious about him, but couldn't find someone they all liked in 2009.

What if the defensive performance we saw in 2009, was because the guys knew the situation & played extra hard for the "Gip"?

All this to say, what if Bob was telling us the truth when he said Kubiak was very much involved in bringing in Wade Phillips in? What if they used the same "group think" philosophy this group has used on everything else they've done since they've been here?

Was Kubiak ever on the hotseat? Did Bob truly think we were on the right track?

The world may never know.
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Old 06-11-2012   #100
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Default Re: Texans GM Emotionally Detached????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
I think McNair would have had to do something bold to show Texans Nation that he was more committed to building a winning product than he was committed to a head coach that could not make the playoffs after six seasons.
I also believe Kubiak would have been out if we didn't win our first play-off game.

But I don't think 6 seasons has anything to do with it.

I know we can spit out example after example of teams that have gone from duds to play-offs in Gary's tenure, but I never subscribed to that line of thinking.

I don't believe in year-to-year transformations. I believe there is usually an undercurrent going on, that we don't see for the most part, then when that club finally has success, we think of it as overnight success, even though it wasn't.

San Francisco is a perfect example. I think Mike Nolan started something, Singletary kept it going, & Harbaugh continued building on the foundation Nolan laid.

Making it to the play-offs has so many variables, often we'll see teams that don't belong...... 2011 Broncos, 2010 Seahawks, 2002 Cleveland Browns.... bad teams get to the play-offs all the time. Good teams miss the play-offs all the time.

We either have a good team or we don't & Bob has to be able to tell whether we make the play-offs or not. He has to know if the Head Coach is good or bad for his team. Same thing with the General Manager.

I personally don't think Kubiak is among the better head coaches in the league, but I don't think he is hurting the club..... I don't think he is the weakest link.

I don't really know what Bob thinks of him.
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