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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #1
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Default Inelligible receiver... Belicheat??

So Harbaugh is upset.

Quote:
Based on the math alone, Ravens coach John Harbaugh knew something was sketchy.

The Patriots only had four linemen in the game. Six players where eligible. By rule, seven players had to be on the line, but it was impossible for the Ravens defense to figure out who they needed to cover.

Harbaugh came onto the field pleading with the officials as much as he was arguing with them.

It cost him a 15-yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty, but if it meant clearing up the situation, he’d take it.

“We wanted an opportunity to be able to ID who the eligible players were,” Harbaugh said. “Because what they were doing was they would announce the eligible player and then Tom [Brady] would take them to the line right away and snap the ball before we even had a chance to figure out who was lined up where. That was the deception part of it. It was clearly deception.’’
He believes the Patriots were being dirty.

Quote:
To understand why Harbaugh was angry, let's look at one of the Patriots' plays in question, from the third quarter. It looks like a regular empty-backfield shotgun formation, but tight end Michael Hoomanawanui's actually lined up at left tackle. (It's hard to see, but trust me.) Running back Shane Vereen is lined up on the right, and declared himself an ineligible receiver before the play.


Now, after the ball's snapped:



My question, is if Vareen is inelligible & counts as one of the seven guys on the LOS, how is that TE on his side able to run down field? Shouldn't that guy have to line up to the right of Vareen?
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #2
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Default Re: Inelligible receiver... Belicheat??

Within the rules...
Quote:
Substitutions by the New England Patriots questioned by Baltimore Ravens coach John Harbaugh on Saturday were within the rule book.

Former NFL director of officials Mike Pereira said the moves were "perfectly legal" even if they caused confusion on the Ravens' sideline.

"There is a specific rule that says than an eligible numbered player can report as ineligible and line up anywhere on the line as long as he is covered by a wideout who is on the line," Pereira said. "Perfectly legal. ... The Ravens have a responsibility to react immediately."

Patriots running back Shane Vereen reported as an ineligible player and lined up in the slot for the Patriots.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #3
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Default Re: Inelligible receiver... Belicheat??

What they did is legal. The real question is how it was communicated to the D.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #4
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Default Re: Inelligible receiver... Belicheat??

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
What they did is legal. The real question is how it was communicated to the D.
They could have called time out. He should be wondering how his team gave up two 14 point leads.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #5
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Default Re: Inelligible receiver... Belicheat??

Harbaugh is a doofus. Belichek is the smartest coach in the league. Harbaugh loses that matchup.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #6
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Default Re: Inelligible receiver... Belicheat??

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Originally Posted by santo View Post
They could have called time out. He should be wondering how his team gave up two 14 point leads.
They shouldn't have to waste a timeout. When a player comes and declares ineligible it should be announced the way it is when one declares eligible.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #7
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Default Re: Inelligible receiver... Belicheat??

How did Belicheck cheat?
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #8
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Default Re: Inelligible receiver... Belicheat??

Perfectly legal.

The TE lined up at LT isn't covered up. Both WRs on his side are off the line of scrimmage. So he is eligible. Vereen is on the line of scrimmage and he is covered up by the WR outside of him, who is also on the line. This makes Vereen ineligible and as long as he declares himself as such and never crosses the line of scrimmage there is nothing wrong with this alignment.

If NE substituted then the refs have to give Baltimore time to do the same. But Baltimore wasn't trying to sub, they just didn't know how to line up against the formation.

NFL coaches probably don't see this often so they hesitated on how to defend it. That's on them. I see high schools try this all the time. It's not that difficult. I'd jam everybody off the line and rush two guys off the edge of the LG. He can't block both and the C can't get over there quick enough after snapping the ball. The only way NE could beat that is with a QB draw, which I would happily invite them to run.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #9
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Default Re: Inelligible receiver... Belicheat??

If anything, the refs should take the time to announce it like they do a lineman coming in as an eligible receiver. But other than that, just a Harbaugh whining like a Harbaugh does.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #10
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Default Re: Inelligible receiver... Belicheat??

Perfectly legal and of dubious sportsmanlike conduct. The defense didn't get time to react, because of the lateness of the declaration of ineligibility.

Just Belicheck doing Belicheck things.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #11
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Default Re: Inelligible receiver... Belicheat??

Quote:
Originally Posted by IlliniJen View Post
Perfectly legal and of dubious sportsmanlike conduct.
Dubious sportsmanship? If you say so, I don't see it

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Originally Posted by IlliniJen View Post
Just Belicheck doing Belicheck things.
You mean like winning?
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Old 1 Week Ago   #12
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Default Re: Inelligible receiver... Belicheat??

In this instance it was Belismart and Hardumb.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #13
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Default Re: Inelligible receiver... Belicheat??

smart, sly - very dubious. which is obvious because we're here talking about it. the crazy sub package is fine, as is putting players on the field with different tags. the trouble is he know that the way it would be handled would give him a decided advantage. he wasn't beating the ravens with those subs, he was beating the refs. they mishandled the situation by not clearly giving the defense notification of the substitution's designations, nor enough time to perform their own subs in response. legal, but dubious at best to use a tactic to beat the system instead of beating the opponent.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #14
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Default Re: Inelligible receiver... Belicheat??

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Originally Posted by Heath Shuler View Post
Dubious sportsmanship? If you say so, I don't see it
I think it's definitely "dubious" other wise you'd see teams doing it more often.

Still, it's the defenses job to defend & I don't see how naming Vareen inelligible (which was announced clearly before the play) presents such a problem. The two TEs are still eligible receivers. They weren't on the line & should have been defended.

If that was too complicated, someone should have called a time out.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #15
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Default Re: Inelligible receiver... Belicheat??

I don't think Belichick did anything wrong, but the refs whiffed on the notification.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #16
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Default Re: Inelligible receiver... Belicheat??

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I think it's definitely "dubious" other wise you'd see teams doing it more often.

Still, it's the defenses job to defend & I don't see how naming Vareen inelligible (which was announced clearly before the play) presents such a problem. The two TEs are still eligible receivers. They weren't on the line & should have been defended.

If that was too complicated, someone should have called a time out.
That's the way I see it. Maybe they need to take out the halfback pass too because the defense had trouble defending that as well.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #17
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Default Re: Inelligible receiver... Belicheat??

Pats didn't do anything wrong. They declared ineligible like they are supposed to. Blame the refs for screwing up the announcement or blame Harbaugh for not calling a timeout. It's not New England's job to get Baltimore lined up on defense.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #18
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Default Re: Inelligible receiver... Belicheat??

Quote:
"I don’t know what you’re talking about. That happens all the time,” Belichick said Monday on a conference call with the media. “You come in on the punt team, and eligible guys are reported as ineligible. They come in as guards and tackles on the punt team. The center — most of the (long snappers’) numbers in the NFL are eligible players that report as ineligible, then they cover punts.

“We see that on offense, we see it a lot in special tams and the punting game. Not so much on field goals because you have your linemen in there protecting. I’d say it happens in every game on the punt team. You’re allowed to do that. We did it. I don’t really understand what the question is. If it’s about the rules, you should talk to the NFL rules people. Let them tell you about it.”

Belichick said he saw an NFL team use a similar set, inspiring the Patriots to use their own.

“It’s a play that — it’s a situation that I saw another team use, kinda,” Belichick said. “We talked about it, thought about ways to put some pressure on the defense with that type of concept to defend more receivers on the field than were actually eligible — to make them ineligible instead of making the ineligible guys eligible, to go the other way around. We came up with a few ideas.

“The origin of that play was from the NFL. What they did wasn’t — it sparked some ideas. That’s what we did.”

Perhaps Belichick is referring to a set that the Jacksonville Jaguars used multiple times when they split out two offensive linemen. The Jaguars kept five offensive linemen on the field, however.



The Patriots used four offensive linemen and made running back Shane Vereen ineligible on two plays and tight end Michael Hoomanawanui on one. On those plays, Vereen and Hoomanawanui still could catch passes as long as quarterback Tom Brady’s throws went backward.

“Yeah. I think you see it every week,” Belichick said. I’d venture to say I couldn’t remember a time I haven’t seen an eligible receiver report as an eligible player in the National Football League — I’d say that happens every week.”
http://nesn.com/2015/01/bill-belichi...-so-we-did-it/
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Old 1 Week Ago   #19
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Default Re: Inelligible receiver... Belicheat??

Within the rules

Communicated with 7 seconds left before snap

Lack of communication by coaches in the box to the coaches on the field

Should have called timeout.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #20
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Default Eligible Receiver Announced?

was watching the pats colts and they kept saying that the eligible receiver is announced? they announce it on the big speaker??? players are supposed to know the names of the players? one side of the dline has to relay to the other side who is eligible all while trying to prevent the pats from their uptempo play calls??

nfl, please fix this stupid rule. bellicheck is making the nfl look stupid.
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