Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-17-2005   #1
Ibar_Harry
Hall of Fame
 
Ibar_Harry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,219
Rep Power: 15 Ibar_Harry was voted MVPIbar_Harry was voted MVPIbar_Harry was voted MVP
Default What was not said!

When I looked through the comments and pictures I found it interesting there were zero comments concerning the O-line. I mean nothing about Smith or the young Center. There were a number of comments on the other rookies. In fact the O-line comments centered around the recent O-line FA pickup. Interestingly, like everyone said he was in poor shape. I think that is ominous. They showed a picture of the D-line, but not the O-line. Some would say you are reading too much into this 1st workout, but I think not. This is the one continuing weakness and BJ going down means we can not rely on the TE at the present time to fortify the O-line. I will remain adiment that this team goes nowhere without O-line improvement. In fact I feel we will have a much worse season than last year if the O-line is not fixed. I did pick up on the fact they have changed some of their plays, however. One of the reporters, I believe in the Capers interview, refered to that.

Changing the plays or schemes will give you a temporary advantage until people adjust to what you have changed, but in the final analysis you have to do what you do well to be successful in the long run. Our O-line has to learn to block effectively if we are to go anywhere and have a successful season. The same could be said for the D-line.
Ibar_Harry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2005   #2
Tailgate
Fall of Hame
 
Tailgate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Houston, TX - Born and raised
Age: 36
Posts: 3,153
Rep Power: 27364 Tailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
When I looked through the comments and pictures I found it interesting there were zero comments concerning the O-line. I mean nothing about Smith or the young Center. There were a number of comments on the other rookies. In fact the O-line comments centered around the recent O-line FA pickup. Interestingly, like everyone said he was in poor shape. I think that is ominous. They showed a picture of the D-line, but not the O-line. Some would say you are reading too much into this 1st workout, but I think not. This is the one continuing weakness and BJ going down means we can not rely on the TE at the present time to fortify the O-line. I will remain adiment that this team goes nowhere without O-line improvement. In fact I feel we will have a much worse season than last year if the O-line is not fixed. I did pick up on the fact they have changed some of their plays, however. One of the reporters, I believe in the Capers interview, refered to that.

Changing the plays or schemes will give you a temporary advantage until people adjust to what you have changed, but in the final analysis you have to do what you do well to be successful in the long run. Our O-line has to learn to block effectively if we are to go anywhere and have a successful season. The same could be said for the D-line.

You are reading too much into it. Hasnt it been like 2 days???? And how could we have a MUCH worse season next year if the O-Line is not improved? Wouldnt it just be the same as last year then? Are you expecting them to worse? Are you expecting our D to be worse too?

Or does all of this simply come from the front page not mentioning our O-Line in a little mini camp when the season is STILL 3 months away?
Tailgate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2005   #3
Ibar_Harry
Hall of Fame
 
Ibar_Harry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,219
Rep Power: 15 Ibar_Harry was voted MVPIbar_Harry was voted MVPIbar_Harry was voted MVP
Default

Again, every facit of the game was mentioned, but the O-line. I will say watch this area closely, as I think it will tell you where we are headed. If we begin to see favorable comments and tibits appearing about the O-line play, then I would say you can begin to think about having an excellent season. I feel the O-line is the key to the Texan's season. Are there worries about the defense, Yes. Capers will focus on that so I don't worry about that aspect of the game. We simply do not have the same focus with the offense. Again, I'm adiment that the slogan for this year's Texans is - So goes the O-line, So goes the Season.
Ibar_Harry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2005   #4
infantrycak
Lead Moderator
 
infantrycak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Age: 46
Posts: 44,637
Rep Power: 276022 infantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Good lord Ibar, are you sure your not Oliver Stone? The article and slide show obviously concentrated on the stars and new guys on the team. They don't mention the kickers either and several new ones have been signed--think they aren't telling us something about their injuries from last year?

Just as an FYI--it is "adamant."
__________________
The Art of War
infantrycak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2005   #5
Double Barrel
Modified Simian
 
Double Barrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Onward, Upward, and back into the Trees
Section: Gridiron, Tx
Age: 47
Posts: 30,461
Rep Power: 283896 Double Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Well, to be honest, the O-line is my chief cause for concern. I'm not going to start hand-wringing over it just yet...I'll wait until they actually take to the field before making any judgements.

However, I give them a month of games. If we do not see some protection for Carr within four games, we might have a problem. It doesn't matter how many weapons are at his disposal if they can't give him the time to utilize them properly or he's running for his life every other play. In addition, if we can't establish a running game early in the season, my fear is that we are a one trick pony (and easy to figure out).

While it is disappointing that no major upgrades have been made to the O-line so far, we have to keep it in perspective that there were not a lot of choices available to us. Plus we have to factor into account that they were playing better by the end of last year, so the logic is that they are now into the second year of learning the zone blocking scheme, so they should start to gel this year.

So, while I'm not losing any sleep at the moment about it, I will be looking at our line first and foremost for indications that our entire offense will start coming together.
__________________
"Football is only a diversion." ~ HOUSTON TEXANS
Double Barrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2005   #6
JDizzle
Hall of Fame
 
JDizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,871
Rep Power: 3602 JDizzle is a quality contributor and well respectedJDizzle is a quality contributor and well respectedJDizzle is a quality contributor and well respectedJDizzle is a quality contributor and well respectedJDizzle is a quality contributor and well respectedJDizzle is a quality contributor and well respectedJDizzle is a quality contributor and well respectedJDizzle is a quality contributor and well respectedJDizzle is a quality contributor and well respectedJDizzle is a quality contributor and well respectedJDizzle is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
So goes the O-line, So goes the Season.
Another pearl of wisdom from Harry.

Here's one:

Man who fart in church sit in own pew.
JDizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2005   #7
Ibar_Harry
Hall of Fame
 
Ibar_Harry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,219
Rep Power: 15 Ibar_Harry was voted MVPIbar_Harry was voted MVPIbar_Harry was voted MVP
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackDizzle
Another pearl of wisdom from Harry.

Here's one:

Man who fart in church sit in own pew.
I think your right Jack, you might want to pray for the O-line.
Ibar_Harry is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 05-17-2005   #8
Ibar_Harry
Hall of Fame
 
Ibar_Harry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,219
Rep Power: 15 Ibar_Harry was voted MVPIbar_Harry was voted MVPIbar_Harry was voted MVP
Default

I was referencing Jack's comments.
Ibar_Harry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2005   #9
Tailgate
Fall of Hame
 
Tailgate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Houston, TX - Born and raised
Age: 36
Posts: 3,153
Rep Power: 27364 Tailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Geese guys... its not like anyone is stating anything new here. The Oline of course is going to be a part of our team to watch very closely. But to start deriving bad predictions from 2 days of practice because no one spoke of them on our front page is complete nonsense.

This is supposed to be a time for optimism. Wand has POTENTIAL that supposedly has not been reached yet. How do you know that one more offseason/training camp isnt exactly what he needs to improve a bit? Maybe this line just needs to be TOGETHER as a total unit without being moved around,etc... with another offseason of the mastering the new zone scheme? The offensive line could actually be BETTER next year. It will never be a league leader with this talent... but this is a young team and with our cap room and the draft next year, it WILL be addressed.

Look, people just need to relax a bit. The Joppru situation is unfortunate... and something that could not be predicted. But we may address that before the season starts as well.

I don't know if any of you have noticed but our depth is better than I have EVER seen it and that is big in todays NFL.

Bottom line, this team has improved EVERY year since its inception.... so what do you really have to complain about??
Tailgate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2005   #10
El Tejano
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 9,811
Rep Power: 10969 El Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

The team improved over the years and I think that as long as we let the guys we have play together they will get better also.
El Tejano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2005   #11
infantrycak
Lead Moderator
 
infantrycak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Age: 46
Posts: 44,637
Rep Power: 276022 infantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk75
Chester needs to play left tackle, Wands problem is he is NOT athletic enough to play LT, Yes Chester jumps off sides a lot but he has been the best at LT. I think Hodgdon will give Steve a run for his money if anything else get Steve worried about his spot on the line.
JMO, but anyone arguing Pitts should move back to LT is facing a pretty big self-contradiction because Pitts' time at LT should be glaring evidence for letting Wand have another year before messing with the whole left side of the line.

Pitts gave up 15.5 sacks in 2002, plus 3 false starts and 5 holds. In 2003, he improved dramatically on sacks to 5.75 but did trade off with increased penalties to 8 false starts and 7 holds. In other words the Pitts that people think is better than Wand at LT is the 2003 Pitts which we never would have seen if all the cries for him to be replaced had been listened to after 2002. Pitts responded as many if not most 2nd year players do, with a big jump in performance.

Wand gave up 12.5 sacks with just 1 false start and 2 holds (this was on 30 more passing attempts also by the way), i.e. his 1st year was better than Pitts'. There is no reason to expect Wand not to make a typical big jump in 2nd year performance also--something like 5-8 sacks allowed. Plus, we don't jack with the set-up of the best run-blocking side of the OL.
__________________
The Art of War
infantrycak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2005   #12
Lucky
Moderator
 
Lucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 12,994
Rep Power: 120321 Lucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
...In other words the Pitts that people think is better than Wand at LT is the 2003 Pitts which we never would have seen if all the cries for him to be replaced had been listened to after 2002...
The Texans were replacing Pitts at LT in '03. Pitts worked at RT during the '03 minicamps. Didn't work out that way though (wonder why?). Pitts was a stopgap LT and as that did a serviceable job. Wand has to perform at a higher level than that for the Texans offense to function. Seth's bar must be higher than the '03 version of Pitts.
__________________
“We’re looking for a coach that...works with great energy and enthusiasm and very positive in his approach.” - Bob McNair
Lucky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2005   #13
Tailgate
Fall of Hame
 
Tailgate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Houston, TX - Born and raised
Age: 36
Posts: 3,153
Rep Power: 27364 Tailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
The Texans were replacing Pitts at LT in '03. Pitts worked at RT during the '03 minicamps. Didn't work out that way though (wonder why?). Pitts was a stopgap LT and as that did a serviceable job. Wand has to perform at a higher level than that for the Texans offense to function. Seth's bar must be higher than the '03 version of Pitts.
Then if we believe in trends.... it looks as though since Wands first year was better than Pitts, then his second year should be better than his as well.
Tailgate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2005   #14
bckey
Hall of Fame
 
bckey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 53
Posts: 2,317
Rep Power: 15763 bckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

We can only wonder how good Pitts would have been at LT in 2004.
bckey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2005   #15
Tailgate
Fall of Hame
 
Tailgate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Houston, TX - Born and raised
Age: 36
Posts: 3,153
Rep Power: 27364 Tailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bckey
We can only wonder how good Pitts would have been at LT in 2004.
Cept the staff feels that Wand is a better fit and has more potential for LT, and Pitts is a better guard.... hence utilizing the pieces we have and making our line better OVERALL.
Tailgate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2005   #16
infantrycak
Lead Moderator
 
infantrycak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Age: 46
Posts: 44,637
Rep Power: 276022 infantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
The Texans were replacing Pitts at LT in '03. Pitts worked at RT during the '03 minicamps. Didn't work out that way though (wonder why?). Pitts was a stopgap LT and as that did a serviceable job. Wand has to perform at a higher level than that for the Texans offense to function. Seth's bar must be higher than the '03 version of Pitts.
Yeah, but that was because they thought they were getting Bosselli back--remember he was actually out there working with Wand and Pitts before the final revelation. After that, I don't recall any serious effort to get someone to put at LT. And I see no reason why Wand won't be better than the 2003 Pitts.
__________________
The Art of War
infantrycak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2005   #17
Lucky
Moderator
 
Lucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 12,994
Rep Power: 120321 Lucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
Yeah, but that was because they thought they were getting Bosselli back--remember he was actually out there working with Wand and Pitts before the final revelation. After that, I don't recall any serious effort to get someone to put at LT...
I was trying not to say the "B" word.

I think #71 "retired" just prior to training camp. Too late to bring in someone else. The 2nd order of business in the '04 minicamps (after changing to zone blocking) was to move Pitts inside. The Texans were never happy with Pitts at LT.

I just don't think Pitts' "progress" at LT should be a measuring stick for Wand. Make it a legit LT going into his 2nd season. That's what Seth needs to live up to.
__________________
“We’re looking for a coach that...works with great energy and enthusiasm and very positive in his approach.” - Bob McNair
Lucky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2005   #18
infantrycak
Lead Moderator
 
infantrycak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Age: 46
Posts: 44,637
Rep Power: 276022 infantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
I was trying not to say the "B" word.
Maybe I need to edit it out so Ses doesn't see it.

Quote:
I just don't think Pitts' "progress" at LT should be a measuring stick for Wand. Make it a legit LT going into his 2nd season. That's what Seth needs to live up to.
My only real point on the comparison was even as reviled as Pitts was in 2002, he did make a dramatic improvement, enough that some rosy memoried people want to deny Wand the opportunity to make a big improvement in his 2nd year as a starter. I think that would be a mistake and expect to see Wand make a big jump in performance this year.
__________________
The Art of War
infantrycak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2005   #19
Meloy
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,834
Rep Power: 13 Meloy was voted MVPMeloy was voted MVPMeloy was voted MVP
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
Good lord Ibar, are you sure your not Oliver Stone? The article and slide show obviously concentrated on the stars and new guys on the team. They don't mention the kickers either and several new ones have been signed--think they aren't telling us something about their injuries from last year?

Just as an FYI--it is "adamant."
Wasn't Adam Ant a rock group?
Meloy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2005   #20
Meloy
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,834
Rep Power: 13 Meloy was voted MVPMeloy was voted MVPMeloy was voted MVP
Default

Seriously, I have to vote against the naysayers. Wand should improve. The blocking scheme seemed to offer some hope at end of season. Wand has the new guy pushing him and adding depth at all oline positions. Carr will probably be using quicker release steps. We have another DD protogee with Morancy that hopefully will keep a fresh back at Carr's disposal. It will be interesting. I think the additions on D side of the ball might help to win games also.
Meloy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger