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Old 05-03-2012   #41
Blake
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Default Re: Biggest Concern Going Forward

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History has certainly proven that true.
the game has changed. You need a solid QB to win super bowls.
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Old 05-03-2012   #42
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Default Re: Biggest Concern Going Forward

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the game has changed. You need a solid QB to win super bowls.
That's what I Was going to say, but I thought about it and history doesn't change until someone actually changes it. Trends are set until someone actually sets them.

Basically, the top QB's are the ones winning superbowls right now because it's such a pass heavy league but if a team like the Texans won the superbowl it'd likely be largely attributed to our defense and running game...

I just think you need a good mix of talent. You need to be elite in a few places and very good most everywhere else.

I think the easiest way to win a superbowl though is by having an elite QB though...
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Old 05-03-2012   #43
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Default Re: Biggest Concern Going Forward

In no way do I consider Ely Manning elite even though he's won two SBs recently. He's very good, but he isn't elite. And his brother, who is one of the best QBs of all time only has one ring. You can win SBs without an elite QB, you just better bring your A game in other areas.
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Old 05-03-2012   #44
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Default Re: Biggest Concern Going Forward

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the game has changed. You need a solid QB to win super bowls.
The Texans QB needs to be able to do two things very well to win a SB.

1. Turn around and hand ball to Foster.
2. Turn around and hand ball to Tate.
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Old 05-03-2012   #45
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Default Re: Biggest Concern Going Forward

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In no way do I consider Ely Manning elite even though he's won two SBs recently. He's very good, but he isn't elite. And his brother, who is one of the best QBs of all time only has one ring. You can win SBs without an elite QB, you just better bring your A game in other areas.
Who is using the word elite?
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Old 05-03-2012   #46
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Default Re: Biggest Concern Going Forward

If Kubiak doesn't make a commitment to starting a QB and sticking with him for a decent amount of time (which is why I advocate PUP'ing Schaub) then we'll be screwed. An offense cannot be dragged into even a mild QB controversy.

PUP'ing Schaub allows TJ to be the undisputed leader for a huge portion of the season. It stops ANY controversy from brewing early in the season, since Schaub will be prohibited from playing until mid-season. And if TJ is not playing well...the fans will be ready for a change back to Schaub and it gives Kubiak the "out" he needs, as well.

Allowing Schaub to be in full gear on the sideline to start the season, or even week 3 or 4, is inviting an implosion on that offense. Because if things get sketchy for TJ, the hook will be readied and then everyone starts doubting TJ (even TJ doubting himself) and it's just bad psychology all the way around.

Normalcy is the bread and butter of Kubiak's coaching style. I would think he wants Schaub as an emergency option if TJ fails and we need a miracle to finish up the last half of the season. Kubiak likes his QBs to be in full control and not looking over their shoulder. Having Schaub on the sideline is no recipe for normalcy at the QB position.

I think people are generally freaked out about the Texans starting a season with a QB whose last name is not Schaub. We have Foster, we have TEs who know how to bail out their QB. We have a great Kubiak/Dennison combo going on. Things will be fine.
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Old 05-03-2012   #47
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Default Re: Biggest Concern Going Forward

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Allowing Schaub to be in full gear on the sideline to start the season, or even week 3 or 4, is inviting an implosion on that offense.
If Schaub is suited up then he is starting.
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Old 05-03-2012   #48
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Default Re: Biggest Concern Going Forward

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Originally Posted by ckhouston View Post
The Texans QB needs to be able to do two things very well to win a SB.

1. Turn around and hand ball to Foster.
2. Turn around and hand ball to Tate.
Wrong!! Our Oline is F'd up, thanks to bonehead off season moves! No way Foster or Tate will be that good all by themselves! We better get our new WRs up and running before Sept, or we won't see the playoffs! JMO!
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Old 05-03-2012   #49
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Default Re: Biggest Concern Going Forward

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Wrong!! Our Oline is F'd up, thanks to bonehead off season moves! No way Foster or Tate will be that good all by themselves! We better get our new WRs up and running before Sept, or we won't see the playoffs! JMO!
I think Butler will do just fine in Winston's place. My biggest concern prior to the draft was losing Brisel. But finding out that Caldwell had been playing through injured ankles last year and after drafting Brooks and Jones, I think we'll be fine at the Guard spot.

So I don't think our oline is f'd up.

I think we'll be fine and possibly even better than we were.
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Old 05-03-2012   #50
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Default Re: Biggest Concern Going Forward

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Wrong!! Our Oline is F'd up, thanks to bonehead off season moves! No way Foster or Tate will be that good all by themselves! We better get our new WRs up and running before Sept, or we won't see the playoffs! JMO!

13-3. Miss me with all this negative talk. Boneheaded how? Because we let Ryans go? Dude had to go. Briesel wanted far too much paper. Winston wasn't about to take no paycuts. Y'all got to lay off that dope, man. Damn man, the salary cap is at play here. We're trying to be the Steelers, Giants and Patriots. To HELL with loyalty. This is a GROWN FOLKS BUSINESS. That's the only reason folks were mad. Because we didn't keep mainstays. Let it go.

My BIGGEST concern though? I'll say starting 5-0 and having Texans Talk make threads about how Kubiak is holding us back because we won that 5th game 21-17.
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Old 05-03-2012   #51
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Default Re: Biggest Concern Going Forward

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
I think Butler will do just fine in Winston's place. My biggest concern prior to the draft was losing Brisel. But finding out that Caldwell had been playing through injured ankles last year and after drafting Brooks and Jones, I think we'll be fine at the Guard spot.

So I don't think our oline is f'd up.

I think we'll be fine and possibly even better than we were.
I'm truly trying to think positive, and I hope you are correct. BUT, Winston and Brisel were part of what made our Oline gel so well last year. AF and Tate depended on that, and I just hope Butler and Caldwell will fill the gap well. Im just concerned about TWO guys coming off injuries to replace two starting spots on the Oline. Time will tell, and I'll TRY to have as much faith as you guys!
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Old 05-03-2012   #52
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Default Re: Biggest Concern Going Forward

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
If Schaub is suited up then he is starting.
I had a post, but deleted it. Instead, this poster (below) summed it up better than I could.

So I will co-sign on his post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldensilence View Post
Biggest concern? Schaub really being healthy to start out the season.

For better or worse in many different ways this is a make or break season for Schaub. It's a contract year. Of the 5 years so far only two have been spent without any significant time injured. He's put up great numbers when healthy, but you still have to wonder about long term durability issues and if he'll be able to stay healthy for long stretches.

I think the real question that needs to be answered during the OTAs, camp and everything is going to be seeing IF Yates can be that guy moving forward.
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Old 05-03-2012   #53
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Default Re: Biggest Concern Going Forward

Biggest concern? Schaub really being healthy to start out the season.

For better or worse in many different ways this is a make or break season for Schaub. It's a contract year. Of the 5 years so far only two have been spent without any significant time injured. He's put up great numbers when healthy, but you still have to wonder about long term durability issues and if he'll be able to stay healthy for long stretches.

I think the real question that needs to be answered during the OTAs, camp and everything is going to be seeing IF Yates can be that guy moving forward.
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Old 05-03-2012   #54
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Default Re: Biggest Concern Going Forward

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Originally Posted by Blake View Post
the game has changed. You need a solid QB to win super bowls.
Pretty much. Outside of Tampa Bay in 2004, every Super Bowl has been won by elite QBs.

Brady
Eli (he's elite folks. Most clutch QB in the NFL)
Rodgers
Peyton
Big Ben
Brees

Quote:
The Texans QB needs to be able to do two things very well to win a SB.

1. Turn around and hand ball to Foster.
2. Turn around and hand ball to Tate.
Its a QB-WR-TE game now. How many elite backs have won a Super Bowl in the past decade?

The days of Trent Dilfer winning Super Bowls are over. Defense is becoming less of a factor in the modern NFL too.
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Old 05-03-2012   #55
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Default Re: Biggest Concern Going Forward

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Pretty much. Outside of Tampa Bay in 2004, every Super Bowl has been won by elite QBs.

Brady
Eli (he's elite folks. Most clutch QB in the NFL)
Rodgers
Peyton
Big Ben
Brees



Its a QB-WR-TE game now. How many elite backs have won a Super Bowl in the past decade?

The days of Trent Dilfer winning Super Bowls are over. Defense is becoming less of a factor in the modern NFL too.
It's all a matter of opinion. If your definition of elite includes winning Super Bowls, then it's a circular definition. Just because most of the SBs of the past decade have been won by elite QBs doesn't mean you have to have an elite QB to win it.

I don't consider Flacco or Alex Smith elite QBs. One of them could have won a SB last year. We could easily have had a Ravens-Niners SB.

And you don't get to "outside of Tampa Bay", that's a cheap out. If you're going to write up the list of the last 10 SB winning QBs, you've got to include Brad Johnson. And if you're going to do the last 12, you've got to include Dilfer.
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Old 05-03-2012   #56
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Default Re: Biggest Concern Going Forward

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It's all a matter of opinion. If your definition of elite includes winning Super Bowls, then it's a circular definition. Just because most of the SBs of the past decade have been won by elite QBs doesn't mean you have to have an elite QB to win it.

I don't consider Flacco or Alex Smith elite QBs. One of them could have won a SB last year. We could easily have had a Ravens-Niners SB.

And you don't get to "outside of Tampa Bay", that's a cheap out. If you're going to write up the list of the last 10 SB winning QBs, you've got to include Brad Johnson. And if you're going to do the last 12, you've got to include Dilfer.
I agree.

Furthermore: Having an elite QB is not a lock on (a) getting to the SB nor (b) winning it.

Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, and Drew Brees are considered to be elite QBs but yet only one of those advanced to the SB this year. The other SB QB was Eli Manning whom I don't see as an elite QB but rather a very smart, consistently GOOD QB who knows how to act like a point guard who distributes the ball to the right player at the right time.

I think Super Bowl teams have a few common threads: (1) Stout defense, or a VERY lethal offense like the Colts had when they won vs. Bears, (2) Locker room toughness...Coughlin's teams exhibit this very well, as did Cowher's teams in Pittsburgh, and (3) Savvy coaching and Grade A assistant coaches that team up nicely with the players--Jimmy Johnson, Bill Belichick, Bill Cowher, etc. If you have a great QB, it enhances the three items listed above.

Guys like Gruden swerved into a deal in Tampa Bay where they had a stout defense but needed locker room toughness and a savvy head coach. Gruden brought that to Tampa Bay. And let's face it, they were facing the Raiders who really didn't have those three items...at least not to the degree Tampa did. That they managed to win a SB with Brad Johnson, IMO, proves that you do not have to get a QB who is all-world all the time. You need other factors first and foremost, THEN you need competent QB play to add to it. Brad Johnson was not spectacular, but he was very Eli Manning'ish in the sense that he didn't make bone-headed plays and he always find the right guy at the right time. Tampa and NY defenses took care of the rest.

Guys like Dungy were unable to bring locker room toughness and savvy coaching to the table in Tampa...but he had a foster parent named Peyton Manning who DID have it in Indy. Look, I still to this day maintain that the Dungy Colts era was 90% due to Manning. Period. Manning and Tom Moore ran that team. Dungy handled the paperwork.

Once you get into the idea of how SB teams MUST have an elite QB...you start realizing that those teams with those elite QBs actually have other components that make them SB champs...then the elite QB is the bonus factor that enhances it and makes it unstoppable.

Frankly, if having an elite QB was THAT important, then Manning should have 5 rings and Brees should have 4 rings, etc. Overall, the elite QB argument just doesn't measure up. There is more to a SB winning team than the QB.
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Old 05-03-2012   #57
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Default Re: Biggest Concern Going Forward

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In no way do I consider Ely Manning elite even though he's won two SBs recently. He's very good, but he isn't elite. And his brother, who is one of the best QBs of all time only has one ring. You can win SBs without an elite QB, you just better bring your A game in other areas.
Eli might not be considered Elite due to a couple up and down regular seasons. However, when it has been playoff time the dude has been better than just about everyone else in the league.

You need to win a game on the final drive? Give me Eli right now.

You need outstanding QB play to win the Superbowl, evidence to the contrary are the exceptions that prove the rule.
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Old 05-03-2012   #58
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Default Re: Biggest Concern Going Forward

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Frankly, if having an elite QB was THAT important, then Manning should have 5 rings and Brees should have 4 rings, etc. Overall, the elite QB argument just doesn't measure up. There is more to a SB winning team than the QB.
Manning might have 5 rings if he wasn't having to play Brady/Vinetari each year in the AFC champ game.

You say this in your post, "then the elite QB is the bonus factor that enhances it and makes it unstoppable." This is true. Which is why the vast majority of teams that when the Superbowl have elite QB play.... because it makes their team unstoppable. Sure other components of the team are good/elite but QB play, now more-so than ever, is what separates really good teams from Superbowl teams.
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Old 05-03-2012   #59
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Manning might have 5 rings if he wasn't having to play Brady/Vinetari each year in the AFC champ game.

You say this in your post, "then the elite QB is the bonus factor that enhances it and makes it unstoppable." This is true. Which is why the vast majority of teams that when the Superbowl have elite QB play.... because it makes their team unstoppable. Sure other components of the team are good/elite but QB play, now more-so than ever, is what separates really good teams from Superbowl teams.
Manning might have only ONE ring had Tyree not made the circus catch against his helmet in the first SB title they won vs. Pats. In fact, he didn't do anything all that special in the past SB either. Just saying that the best QB does not always win.

And to the idea of elite QBs being the enhancing agent to the SB team: It still doesn't compute that JUST because you have an elite QB you're going to win. Brady couldn't overcome a sub-elite Eli and that Giants defense this past February. Same can be said of their first run-in a few years back in the SB. Even Rex Grossman found a way to beat out 15 other NFC QBs for the chance to play in the SB vs. the Colts.

Why? Defense. And then the Bears defense could not contain the ultra-lethal Colts offense in the SB. There are times when elite QBs can overcome a stout defense, but I think the Colts remain the exception to that rule. Most all other times...the elite QB is playing for a team who already has a stout defense, locker room toughness, and savvy coaching. Yeah, the QB has to be perform and do his part...but it's made easier by virtue of what those other three factors naturally bring to the table.

No, having an elite QB "can" be the thing that puts you over the top...but it's not the x-factor it's made out to be. IMO.
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Old 05-03-2012   #60
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Default Re: Biggest Concern Going Forward

FIFY

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every Super Bowl has been won by elite defenses.

There have been quite a few awesome QB's to never win it all, until they had an elite defense or elite running game.

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