Former University of Houston QB Case Keenum agrees to a contract with the Texans

[ObsiWan]

Originally Posted by GP

This guy sticks with the Texans. I still think TJ starts the season and I even think Keenum does enough in camp and preseason to be QB2. No Practice Squad because he'll be active as QB2 at start of the season.

You need to stop smoking that wacky weed.

[Thorn]

Originally Posted by ObsiWan

You need to stop smoking that wacky weed.

But it's good for your eyes and keeps pizza delivery services in business.

[GuerillaBlack]

Originally Posted by GP

I liked the Keenum camp stuff until Gruden starts the wet football part. It got seriously lame at that point.

In fact, this is my first time to see the full video...previously all I had seen was the wet football clip. So I'm glad I clicked on the video link and saw the BETTER stuff I hadn't seen yet.

The goal line throw where the defender shoots through the A gap and Keenum places the ball to the back corner of the end zone and makes it look so freaking easy...THAT is the stuff of NFL QBs.

"Yeah, I knew what coverage I had and I already knew where I wanted to go with the ball before the snap." I mean, geez, the kid saw what was going to happen and he shoved it right up their nose and made them like it.

This is the offense for a guy like Keenum. And he played right here in Houston, so it won't be a big deal for him on game day. He's used to it, he knows it.

Anyone who watched UH games saw all of this. I didn't know why people were saying he couldn't play at this level. He is Drew Brees. Short, accurate, and great in the right system. Keenum is also tough. Seen him throw many balls and get slammed right after.

[aussie_texan]

Originally Posted by GuerillaBlack

Anyone who watched UH games saw all of this. I didn't know why people were saying he couldn't play at this level. He is Drew Brees. Short, accurate, and great in the right system. Keenum is also tough. Seen him throw many balls and get slammed right after.

the main negative on him is his measurables i.e. his lack of arm strength and his height

[speedfreek]

Keenum is more mobile than Yates and can throw the ball with more velocity.

The only advantage TJ & Schaub have over him is height and experience.

The potential is there, if he can take advantage of the opportunity.

TJ

[GP]

Originally Posted by GuerillaBlack

Anyone who watched UH games saw all of this. I didn't know why people were saying he couldn't play at this level. He is Drew Brees. Short, accurate, and great in the right system. Keenum is also tough. Seen him throw many balls and get slammed right after.

Drew Brees was also in a spread offense and out of shotgun at Purdue.

The thing about spread QBs is they either have inherent passing skills and fit in any system...or they're system-specific and unable to adapt.

Brees is the latter. I think Keenum is as well. Keenum also had spotty pass pro too, think of he gets time to actually go through progressions. He could be awesome here.

[drs23]

Originally Posted by ObsiWan

You need to stop smoking that wacky weed.

Or at the very least, puff, puff, pass.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

This is more about going through a progression & rhythm than release. When most people talk about release, the time starts from the motion to get the ball to the ready position to the time it is out of his hands.

A QB that holds the ball low... around chest level has to get the ball back behind his ear, then go through his forward motion. That takes time. A QB that holds the ball near his head should take less time.

Even if you have two QBs who hold the ball near the same position, one is naturally going to be faster than the other.

Then you have those guys with the big baseball wind-up...

TK, you missed the part where I said "It's not just the release".

[76Texan]

Here's a link to the posts where I discussed Case Keenum:

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89651

[76Texan]

In another thread, I compared Keenum with Weeden:

Before I respond to your post, Dutch, let's take a quick look at the Iowa St. game (vs. Okl. St.)
I haven't watched it before so I decided to watch it two nights ago.

Weeden was one of the main reasons for the loss, if not the biggest.

Weeden were 42-58 for 476 yards, 3 TDs and 3 INTs.

There were 20 pass thrown behind or at the LOS (swing passes, screen passes, shovel passes, etc...)
These types passes contribute in a major way in the spread offense, especially for Weeden (as opposed to Cousins and Wilson who ran versions of pro-style offense at Mich. St. and Wisconsin, respectively.)
The vast majority of them are completions, except for a rare drop by a receiver or RB.

Then there were quick outs, quick slants, check downs - passes that are 7 yards or shorter when the defenders played off the LOS.

Take these out of the equation, and his completion percentage is easily under 50%... and that's with Weeden having a lot more time than Cousins or Wilson or Keenum.

Both Wilson and Keenum were much more accurate than that, and Cousins was also quite better than Weeden. All 3 faced much more pressures than Weeden.

Both Weeden and Keenum ran the spread offense.
On the average, Keenum's passes left his hand at least a full second sooner than Weeden. That is a long long time.

With Weeden, there were a good amount of balls in the dirt or way off the mark for no reason at all.
Or Weeden would stare down a receiver leading to batted balls at the LOS or INTs.

[76Texan]

The same goes with the Tulsa game. Weeden is what, 28-yr old? Shouldn't he be the one player that can be ready on the field for that game? Or was he too old and needed his sleep?
This is a defense that gave up 456 yards to Keenum and the Cougars (5 TDs, no INT as opposed to 2 INTs by Weeden). There were some more completions and a TD by the reserved QB.


Both teams ran a spread offense (OSU and UH).



Tulsa didn't have their starting QB Kine against Okl St.
Weeden benefited from a return TD, two forced fumbles by the D, four INTs by the D, and a lot of good field positions.
He hardly saw any pressure, and yet missed wide open receivers and threw those two bad INTs.

Keenum received 2 INTs from the D (Weeden stil got a plus four advantage in turnover plus the return TD).
Keenum faced a ton of pressure and made an awful lot of plays under duress.
He didn't throw any inaccurate pass.

Here's the break down of Keenum's incompletions:

- 7 incompletions due to direct pressure (within 1-1/2 to 2 secs). All passes were still close to intended targets.
- One pass too "hot" for a receiver to handle.
- One drop.
- One QB scramble and throw away due to quick pressure.
- Another throw away due to quick pressure.
- Another incompletion was due to the failure to make adjustment by a receiver on a blitz (he stopped and Keenum got ready to throw to him, but he took off downfield even though he can see that the blitz was getting to Keenum).

And he was sacked twice due to very quick pressure.

Keenum completed several passes under pressure.
With 1:31 to go in the third, leading 20-16, this was what the analyst had to say about Keenum:
"He had to thow quickly because he's got a lot of quick pressures.
But he made a lot of good plays too.
Keenum did a great job finding where the pressure is coming from, and that was the big key.
The question now is will he have enough time to look down the field or will he (continue to) have to get the ball out of his hands quickly."
....

Keenum overcame all the pressures to make one play after another.
With Keenum, it doesn't matter if it was 3rd and 10, 3rd and 15, 3rd and 22, third and 25 or fourth and 15. He's dangerous just the same; the same thing can never be said about Weeden. Third and long and most usually you will see a punt, or an occasional INT.

The difference was night and day when you watch these two guys played against that common opponent (Tulsa).

What more do I want from Weeden?
I think you can find the answer from the above.

[Dutchrudder]

Really? Back to Weeden vs Keenum? I think you are really obsessed with this kid, and not in a good way. Of course there are going to be a lot of short passes in that offense, Tannehill had a lot of short passes too. It's just the design of the system. The difference is that Weeden has a cannon for an arm and Keenum doesn't.

I don't really have the time nor the inclination to go back and watch entire games, but here are some stats on Tannehill and Weeden from an ESPN article. I think it's an interesting breakdown of their passing. By the way 82/144 is 57% on passes of 11+ yards, and that's without his best game of the year.

[speedfreek]

Weeden has NO SHOT of succeeding as an NFL QB.

The guy is a complete statue in the pocket. He will
take some brutal hits and have a shortened career
because of it.

Having a "cannon" doesn't buy you anything if you
have no touch. (if that's the case, JaMarcus Russell
would still be in the league)

TJ

[speedfreek]

How did Tannehill get into this conversation?

I've watched as many A&M games as UH games and can tell you, fairly confidently, that he will get Sherm fired a second time.

The guy simply has no pocket awareness at all.

And the passage for "choke" in Merriam Webster will be re-written
to include his photo.

TJ

[Goldensilence]

After seeing the QB camp with Gruden...how can you not come away impressed with the guy? I know I didn't see him play every week like some people here, but from the small snippets I got, the kid can play.

I think my favorite thing he said was answering Gruden about the number of hits he took at UH and if people can question if he can stand up to the rigors of the NFL. It was something to the effect of "I'm a quarterback, it's who I am and what I do. Yeah, I took some hits, but at the end of the day I'd rather go up against guys going all out and trying then guys who aren't"

That's REAL Moxy.

Count me as a new member of the Keenum fan club. I really hope this guy can stick to the roster or hopefully at least the PS because I do think he can make it at this level.

[GP]

Originally Posted by Goldensilence

After seeing the QB camp with Gruden...how can you not come away impressed with the guy? I know I didn't see him play every week like some people here, but from the small snippets I got, the kid can play.

I think my favorite thing he said was answering Gruden about the number of hits he took at UH and if people can question if he can stand up to the rigors of the NFL. It was something to the effect of "I'm a quarterback, it's who I am and what I do. Yeah, I took some hits, but at the end of the day I'd rather go up against guys going all out and trying then guys who aren't"

That's REAL Moxy.

Count me as a new member of the Keenum fan club. I really hope this guy can stick to the roster or hopefully at least the PS because I do think he can make it at this level.

Go back and watch his throwing motion, then watch the TJ Yates throwing motion and compare the two.

To me, and I'm no QB coach or anything, but Keenum stands tall and throws OVER whereas it looks like TJ sidearms or drops his elbow and slings the ball a bit. Curious to see if I saw what I saw or was imagining it. Would like your feedback.

[Nawzer]

It's going to be amazing to see how he does when he has some protection for a change! I still think he's a long shot, but anything can happen.

[Goldensilence]

Originally Posted by GP

Go back and watch his throwing motion, then watch the TJ Yates throwing motion and compare the two.

To me, and I'm no QB coach or anything, but Keenum stands tall and throws OVER whereas it looks like TJ sidearms or drops his elbow and slings the ball a bit. Curious to see if I saw what I saw or was imagining it. Would like your feedback.

About to head off to work, but one thing that did catch mine and Gruden's eyes was that he'll use whatever motion to get the ball out and he did so repeatedly over his career at UH under the gun. I loved the fact that on a lot of his highlight clips it was Case standing in the pocket knowing a hit was coming and hits the receiver still.

Interesting note.. ESPN has Keenum listed at 6'2" and 210....That's not too far off Brees or Rodgers size....not saying he's going to turn into either...but a knock has been his size....and two others guys play around the same size that haven't been hampered too much. Just sayin..

[speedfreek]

In my opinion, the only thing that can hold Keenum back is if he has a hard time adjusting to the speed of the game.

I think the vast majority of people on here are thinking about this in entirely the wrong way.

We, as Texans fans, don't need Keenum to be better than Manning, Brees, or Rodgers (or RGIII or Luck for that matter).

We just need him to be better than Schaub and Yates.

Why? Because this team almost made it to the AFC championship game, and if we had a QB that can make the throws and:

1) not take sacks/injuries (IE: Schaub)
2) not turn the ball over in big situations (IE: Yates)

The Texans take that next step and possibly win a championship.

Case is exactly the type of person we need -- not brittle, good decision maker, and careful with the ball.

If he can translate those skills to the pros we're in for a great ride.

If not, then at least a local kid got his shot..

TJ

[Thorn]

Originally Posted by speedfreek

Case is exactly the type of person we need -- not brittle, good decision maker, and careful with the ball.

If he can translate those skills to the pros we're in for a great ride.

If not, then at least a local kid got his shot..

TJ

Born in Abilene, played HS football there, then starred at the UH. If he's someday the starter what a story that would be.