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Old 06-10-2012   #261
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Default Re: Former University of Houston QB Case Keenum agrees to a contract with the Texans

Since Keenum signed a 3-yr contract with the Texans, they might want to have him on the roster to lock down the very inexpensive deal.

Beck, even with the minimum veteran money, costs much more.

In case Schaub gets hurt for any reason, the Texans can always bring in a vet like Delhome.
They will only have to pay "as you go" at that time.
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Old 06-10-2012   #262
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Since Keenum signed a 3-yr contract with the Texans, they might want to have him on the roster to lock down the very inexpensive deal.

Beck, even with the minimum veteran money, costs much more.

In case Schaub gets hurt for any reason, the Texans can always bring in a vet like Delhome.
They will only have to pay "as you go" at that time.
That makes sense. I guess it depends on how they do in pre season and camp though.
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Old 06-10-2012   #263
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Default Re: Former University of Houston QB Case Keenum agrees to a contract with the Texans

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That makes sense. I guess it depends on how they do in pee season and camp though.
That goes without saying.
Keenum has to practice and play very well to get to that point.
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Old 06-11-2012   #264
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Default Re: Former University of Houston QB Case Keenum agrees to a contract with the Texans

OK I will confess to not watching much college ball. I know Brees fell due to his height of 6'0'" to the 1st pick of the 2nd round. Keenum is call it an inch taller. Obviously QB's can be effective at that height. What is it about Keenum v. say Brees that made him drop out of the draft entirely?
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Old 06-11-2012   #265
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That goes without saying.
Keenum has to practice and play very well to get to that point.
Right, but my point was how much better (or does he even have to be better) than beck does he need to play?

If something crazy happens like beck lighting it up in pre season and Keenum playing ok or not so good, do you think they'd still prefer the scenario you laid out.

I agree with what you posted in theory I'm just wondering if the play on the field will allow it.

And as it stands now Keenum may not get a whole lot of action in games as the 4th qb. Maybe Yates doesn't play in the 4th pre season game and beck and Keenum get all the reps. Or maybe one of them is gone by that time. I dunno.
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Old 06-11-2012   #266
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Default Re: Former University of Houston QB Case Keenum agrees to a contract with the Texans

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OK I will confess to not watching much college ball. I know Brees fell due to his height of 6'0'" to the 1st pick of the 2nd round. Keenum is call it an inch taller. Obviously QB's can be effective at that height. What is it about Keenum v. say Brees that made him drop out of the draft entirely?
Injury.
Keenum was injured making a tackle after an INT.
He also had a concussion in a different game.

He was injured very early in the 2010 season and it took him a long time to come back; he wasn't ready for the 2011 combine.

Keenum even confessed to being nervous during the first practice in the Spring.
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Old 06-11-2012   #267
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OK I will confess to not watching much college ball. I know Brees fell due to his height of 6'0'" to the 1st pick of the 2nd round. Keenum is call it an inch taller. Obviously QB's can be effective at that height. What is it about Keenum v. say Brees that made him drop out of the draft entirely?
I don't know what brees' combine was like but apparently Keenum's was a big fail.

Questions about his arm strength from some and the health.

I think it was a combo of things.
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Old 06-11-2012   #268
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Default Re: Former University of Houston QB Case Keenum agrees to a contract with the Texans

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Right, but my point was how much better (or does he even have to be better) than beck does he need to play?

If something crazy happens like beck lighting it up in pre season and Keenum playing ok or not so good, do you think they'd still prefer the scenario you laid out.

I agree with what you posted in theory I'm just wondering if the play on the field will allow it.

And as it stands now Keenum may not get a whole lot of action in games as the 4th qb. Maybe Yates doesn't play in the 4th pre season game and beck and Keenum get all the reps. Or maybe one of them is gone by that time. I dunno.
Let's say Schaub is ready for pre-season, the Texans probably won't go with 4 QBs, will they?

I think it will have to take the crazy scenario that you put up in which the Texans see so much positive change in Beck, they decide to keep him.

They will probably cut Keenum then.

However, I think that such a possibility is quite remote.
I'm thinking Beck gets cut before pre-season.
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Old 06-11-2012   #269
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Default Re: Former University of Houston QB Case Keenum agrees to a contract with the Texans

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Since Keenum signed a 3-yr contract with the Texans, they might want to have him on the roster to lock down the very inexpensive deal.

Beck, even with the minimum veteran money, costs much more.

In case Schaub gets hurt for any reason, the Texans can always bring in a vet like Delhome.
They will only have to pay "as you go" at that time.
But with a still very inexperienced Yates as our backup QB, having a veteran 3rd stringer who has familiarity with the system and the players is vital. If Schaub were to go down I would feel much better with Beck as our backup to Yates instead of some veteran guy they just picked off the street and has to try and learn the system in a matter of weeks.
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Old 06-11-2012   #270
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Default Re: Former University of Houston QB Case Keenum agrees to a contract with the Texans

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But with a still very inexperienced Yates as our backup QB, having a veteran 3rd stringer who has familiarity with the system and the players is vital. If Schaub were to go down I would feel much better with Beck as our backup to Yates instead of some veteran guy they just picked off the street and has to try and learn the system in a matter of weeks.
Delhome already knows the system.
If they want to resign Beck at that time, the Texans can always do that, too!
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Old 06-11-2012   #271
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Default Re: Former University of Houston QB Case Keenum agrees to a contract with the Texans

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I don't know what brees' combine was like but apparently Keenum's was a big fail.

Questions about his arm strength from some and the health.

I think it was a combo of things.
Keenum pulled a hamstring running his second 40 at the combine.
It affected his movement and his throws.
Having seen him throw the ball more than a thousand times, I say there's nothing wrong with his mechanics or anything.
The knock about his arm strength is also unfounded as we had discussed it before.

All we need to know is that he can throw the ball farther than Schaub.
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Old 06-11-2012   #272
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Default Re: Former University of Houston QB Case Keenum agrees to a contract with the Texans

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OK I will confess to not watching much college ball. I know Brees fell due to his height of 6'0'" to the 1st pick of the 2nd round. Keenum is call it an inch taller. Obviously QB's can be effective at that height. What is it about Keenum v. say Brees that made him drop out of the draft entirely?
76 did a big piece on him during the draft process the link is here.
if you read through it you'll find some good info.
great work from 76

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/sho...ghlight=keenum
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Old 06-11-2012   #273
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Default Re: Former University of Houston QB Case Keenum agrees to a contract with the Texans

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OK I will confess to not watching much college ball. I know Brees fell due to his height of 6'0'" to the 1st pick of the 2nd round. Keenum is call it an inch taller. Obviously QB's can be effective at that height. What is it about Keenum v. say Brees that made him drop out of the draft entirely?
Being a system QB .... taking all those snaps from the shotgun along with his lack of ideal size. Its a pretty huge difference , going from the shotgun all the time to under center , biggest difference is in your reads. Some guy's can make the transition .... others cant. But thats what seperates the good QB'sfrom the great ones.
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Old 06-11-2012   #274
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Default Re: Former University of Houston QB Case Keenum agrees to a contract with the Texans

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Being a system QB .... taking all those snaps from the shotgun along with his lack of ideal size. Its a pretty huge difference , going from the shotgun all the time to under center , biggest difference is in your reads. Some guy's can make the transition .... others cant. But thats what seperates the good QB'sfrom the great ones.
That's another myth.

If one follows the link that aussietexan provides, one can see that Keenum did have experience under center, probably/likely more than RG III and definitely more than Weeden.
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Old 06-11-2012   #275
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Keenum pulled a hamstring running his second 40 at the combine.
It affected his movement and his throws.
Having seen him throw the ball more than a thousand times, I say there's nothing wrong with his mechanics or anything.
The knock about his arm strength is also unfounded as we had discussed it before.

All we need to know is that he can throw the ball farther than Schaub.
I wasn't stating any of that as my opinion, just saying what some knocks on him were.

As far as his combine performance he himself said that he didn't perform at a level he expected. He said he did things that were uncharacteristic.

I don't expect him to use an injury as an excuse, but I'm just saying from a scouts perspective what the impression might have been. Either way, injury or just a bad performance doesn't sit well with folks.
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Old 06-11-2012   #276
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Default Re: Former University of Houston QB Case Keenum agrees to a contract with the Texans

This is a must read for understanding a short QB's challenges and how they may be able to overcome them. [Appeared in the NY TIMES Nov. 2009)]

Saints’ Brees Debunks Notions of the Quarterback Prototype

Quote:
Drew Brees stepped onto the scale at the N.F.L.’s scouting combine in 2001 and was quickly reminded of his biggest — and smallest — problem.

The first time he had heard that he was not as tall as the men with clipboards preferred was when he was coming out of high school. Despite leading his team to the Texas state championship with a perfect season, he was not heavily recruited.

After finishing third in the Heisman Trophy race while at Purdue, Brees again faced perhaps his biggest obstacle, this time in a room filled with talent evaluators. “They had him at 6 feet and one-eighth or two-eighths inches,” his Purdue Coach, Joe Tiller, said. “Drew said ‘No, I’m 6-1. Measure me again.’ He said, ‘That can’t be true. I know I’m 6-1.’ ”

Not quite. Brees is listed at 6 feet flat and is the shortest starting quarterback in a league in which 21 of 32 starting quarterbacks are 6-3 or taller. But as a favorite to win the league’s Most Valuable Player award, Brees is making a mockery of the league’s carefully honed quarterbacking prototype.

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When the Dallas Cowboys pioneered the use of computer analysis in scouting several decades ago, they determined that the breaking point for quarterbacks having passes blocked at the line of scrimmage was 6-1. Any player shorter than that, even one with first-round ability, should not be drafted above the sixth or seventh round, the Cowboys figured.

Brees was the first pick in the second round. Since then, he has debunked the idea that the taller quarterback is better.
Quote:

“If you can visualize a salt shaker and a water tumbler,” said Gil Brandt, a former vice president of player personnel for the Cowboys who helped develop the computer models. “A short quarterback is the salt shaker that has to throw over the water tumbler, to a receiver on the other side that is probably just a little taller than the salt shaker. Brees is a 1-in-100 guy. If you look around, the quarterbacks that are playing the best, they’re all at least 6-3.”

To compensate for not being as tall as Peyton Manning or Ben Roethlisberger, each 6-5, Brees has an instinctive ability to slide a few feet in the pocket to better see his throwing lanes. He is no Steve Young, the barely 6-1 Hall of Fame quarterback whose superb scrambling ability helped make up for his size, but Brees shares Young’s conviction that vision is not a problem.

Giants defensive lineman Justin Tuck, who endured Brees’s four-touchdown day last month, said he guessed that Brees takes a deeper drop before he passes to give him a better view over his offensive line. Nope, Brees said. But Tuck does know one thing from experience.

“His release is so quick, it makes it so tough to judge when he’s letting the ball go, so you don’t know when to jump,” Tuck said.

Brees calls his quick release one of his survival skills. He has concentrated on releasing the ball with his hand high in the air, not down near his shoulder.

“I’ve seen plenty of tall guys where the ball is coming out at a height equivalent to their shoulder,” Brees said. “Compare a 6-5 guy who throws the ball sidearm to a 6-0 guy who has a high release point, and whose ball is coming out higher?”

At Purdue, Tiller noticed that Brees has exceptionally long thumbs, and bigger hands than most people 6 foot. That, Tiller said, allows Brees a better grip on the ball. That may be why Brees is also so adept at throwing the ball from a number of release points, the better to get the ball around and over the linemen.

“Over the top, sidearm, three-quarter — he can alter his throwing motion,” said the former coach Jon Gruden, now an analyst for ESPN.

In the end, what has made Brees great, though, may have more to do with what he has in common with Brady and Manning: extraordinary preparation. Brees has mastered the Saints’ offense, and Coach Sean Payton has given him the freedom to change plays, just as Brady and Manning do. Because Brees knows where everybody is going, which allows him to release the ball before his receiver even makes his break, he can throw off the timing of the leaping linemen.

“Height only matters when you’re not mastering it,” Young, also an ESPN analyst, said. “Maybe the degree of difficulty is a little higher, but it’s still not a gating issue to success.”

Still, even Young said that although he never wished he was 6-6, he was always thankful he was not 5-11.

“6-0 is the Maginot line,” he said.

Brees just made it.

“You’re standing next to these N.F.L. quarterbacks, and you’re the shortest one,” Brees said. “You get these looks like, ‘You play quarterback?’ ”

BTW, when Brees was coming out of college, there were many concerns voiced that he was a "system quarterback" with the system at Purdue especially built around him.
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Old 06-11-2012   #277
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Default Re: Former University of Houston QB Case Keenum agrees to a contract with the Texans

As some here don't get the love for Case in this forum, I'm one of those that don't get the love for Beck. He's washed out on several teams, proved he can't handle the big time, and some here would rather have him than an NCAA record setting rookie?

I don't see the logic in that.
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Old 06-11-2012   #278
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Default Re: Former University of Houston QB Case Keenum agrees to a contract with the Texans

And as for the college "shotgun" formation to NFL under center argument, his retired Purdue football coach Joe Tiller had this to say (Feb 2010):
Quote:
And then there’s the thing about arm strength, but Tiller thinks he’s got that figured out, too, after finally being able to watch professional football on Sundays now that he’s no longer coaching at the college level.

“We also liked him because he throws the short to intermediate ball maybe better than anyone else, certainly as good as anyone in the game,” Tiller stated. “He’s got a great touch. The thing I noticed was one of the knocks on Drew coming out of college was that he always ends up in that shotgun. I’m watching the NFL on Sundays now and that midget quarterback at Pittsburgh (6’7” Ben Roethlisberger), he’s lining up in the shotgun, too. Everybody is in the shotgun anymore in the NFL. Even Sir Peyton is in the shotgun the majority of time.

“I tried to figure that out and I decided that with the speed of the defensive linemen and the speed of the linebackers on blitzes, I didn’t see anyone throw the ball over 40 yards this year. They didn’t have time to throw it over 40 yards. They might have thrown it over 40 when protection broke down, the guy took off scrambling, and he might have flipped it up the field for a home run ball. I don’t see anyone throwing the football way up the field. If you don’t line up in the shotgun and throw the ball when you plant that back foot you’re going to end up on your fanny.

“The stuff they criticized Drew for, everyone in the league is doing now. Go figure. He also has that uncanny sense to be able to feel the rush coming. The good quarterbacks have a feel for it. They don’t look for the rush, they don’t see it because they’re looking up the field, but they can feel it.

“Drew’s a guy who feels it. He skips sideways and he has just enough speed to get outside the pocket and he’s still extremely accurate.”

Tiller also has an explanation for that exceptional asset.

“One of the things physically about Drew, he might have been a little shorter than people wanted him to be, but he has very big hands,” Tiller said. “He has unusually long thumbs. You don’t pay any attention to those kinds of things unless you’re around a guy for four years. You’re up close and you notice how he can grip the ball the way he does. I’m sure it helps him in the way he controls his passes.”
link



It is interesting to note that Keenum has 9-inch-1/8 hands, the second-smallest hands among quarterbacks invited to the combine.......yet, it has not seemed to hamper him in any way.

Last edited by CloakNNNdagger; 06-11-2012 at 10:18 AM. Reason: sp
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Old 06-11-2012   #279
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Default Re: Former University of Houston QB Case Keenum agrees to a contract with the Texans

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...19/6/index.htm

The bad news: Brees had one other goal for Indianapolis—"I don't want any incompletes in the passing drills"—but he didn't come close.

The heart of the quarterbacks' workout was a series of 20 throws: two pass attempts on each of 10 patterns. Brees was prepared to work at full speed, taking a hard drop and throwing on rhythm, before the receiver broke. However, Seahawks quarterbacks coach Jim Zorn, who ran the session, told the passers, "Just ease up and complete balls. Don't worry about anything else."

Brees was confused. Some quarterbacks took Zorn's advice and threw three-quarter-speed spirals to wideouts long after the receivers came out of their breaks. Balls like those would get picked off in a game, but they were safe passes in this arena. Brees stuck with his game plan and threw on rhythm. Some wideouts made sharp breaks, others didn't. Of Brees's 20 balls, 11 were solid throws and nine were poor. He one-hopped a simple out-cut and overthrew another. His long throws—the post-corner and the streak—were wobbly, setting off alarms throughout the league.

.....
Brees' poor showing at the combine didn't hurt him.
It looks to me, it was Keenum's injury on top of the lack of size that scare teams.
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Default Re: Former University of Houston QB Case Keenum agrees to a contract with the Texans

Stephen McGee (A&M) - hand size 9"
drafted in the 4th by the Cowboys in 09


Jimmy Clausen (ND) - hand size 9"
drafted in the 2nd by the Panthers

Zac Robinson (Okl St) hand size 9"
drafted in the 7th by NE

Chad Henne (UM) hand size 9"
drafted in the 2nd by Mia

John David Booty (USC) hand size 8-1/2
drafted in the 5th by Minn

Josh Johnson (SD) hand size 9"
drafted in the 5th by TB

Kevin O'Connell (SD St) hand size 8-7/8
drafted in the third by NE
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