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Old 04-28-2012   #1
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Default 4 Man fronts

Who is going to come in on DL when we go to our Nickel and Dime packages?

We have a lot of options but right now I'm thinking

Barwin Watt Smith Mercilus

Thoughts?
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Old 04-28-2012   #2
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Default Re: 4 Man fronts

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Originally Posted by dc_txtech View Post
Who is going to come in on DL when we go to our Nickel and Dime packages?

We have a lot of options but right now I'm thinking

Barwin Watt Smith Mercilus

Thoughts?
That looks about right to me.

With Reed and Cush playing the LBs.
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Old 04-28-2012   #3
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Default Re: 4 Man fronts

Early reports seem to indicate Crick will have a role in the 4 man front as well.

Maybe Barwin Crick Smith Watt
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Old 04-28-2012   #4
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Default Re: 4 Man fronts

I think you'll see a whole bunch of looks from them. We have plenty of bodies who can do the job and they will keep it fresh and relentless.

They will give Crick some looks inside in those situations.
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Old 04-28-2012   #5
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Default Re: 4 Man fronts

DE - Barwin
DT - Watt
DT - Smith
DE - Mercilus

Crick works in there in rotation at DT.
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Old 04-28-2012   #6
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Default Re: 4 Man fronts

Wade explicitly stated he could use a front of Barwin/Reed/Mercilus/Watt/Smith/Cush yesterday. He said they would find the best way to do that, and not try to just stick the players in to fit them into a preset package. That's my favorite thing about Wade, he changes his system to fit the players and not the other way around.
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Old 04-28-2012   #7
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Default Re: 4 Man fronts

Who said we were gonna go with 4 man fronts in nickle and dime situations? Wade clearly said that he was gonna put the best players possible at the same time in those situations meaning that we might go with more exotic looks having Reed, Barwin, Watt, Cushing, Mercyless, Crick, and Antonio.
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Old 04-28-2012   #8
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Default Re: 4 Man fronts

The possibilities are almost endless, Wade can get seriously inventive with the looks we throw out, and not only because of new personnel, but a proper off-season too.

I like that teams may not know what front we're going to give them until moments before the snap too.

You see a front 7 of Watt Smith Cody Mercilus Barwin Cushing Reed in the huddle, when they come to the line they show 4-3, then suddenly at the snap one stands up and we're effortlessly into 3-4, we play a lot of inexperienced QB's in our division next season, thats got to throw them off somewhat.
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Old 04-28-2012   #9
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Default Re: 4 Man fronts

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Originally Posted by Allstar View Post
Wade explicitly stated he could use a front of Barwin/Reed/Mercilus/Watt/Smith/Cush yesterday. He said they would find the best way to do that, and not try to just stick the players in to fit them into a preset package. That's my favorite thing about Wade, he changes his system to fit the players and not the other way around.
Wade has saved the Texans. And he's said a few times that's what he does, tweaking his system to fit the players, not the other way around. It makes so much sense, that you wonder why it even has to be mentioned.
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Old 04-28-2012   #10
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Default Re: 4 Man fronts

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Originally Posted by Thorn View Post
Wade has saved the Texans. And he's said a few times that's what he does, tweaking his system to fit the players, not the other way around. It makes so much sense, that you wonder why it even has to be mentioned.
Makes you wonder why it's not a more widely used practice in the league.
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Old 04-28-2012   #11
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Default Re: 4 Man fronts

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Originally Posted by Allstar View Post
Makes you wonder why it's not a more widely used practice in the league.
The really good coordinators do this. Lesser coordinators probably resort to the "Coach Red Beaulieu", from the Waterboy, method of coaching. They only know what's in the book and aren't comfortable or creative enough to tweak the system to fit the players.
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Old 04-28-2012   #12
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Default Re: 4 Man fronts

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
The really good coordinators do this. Lesser coordinators probably resort to the "Coach Red Beaulieu", from the Waterboy, method of coaching. They only know what's in the book and aren't comfortable or creative enough to tweak the system to fit the players.
I'm a department manager in a major supermarket, you see it all the time, the less able the manager, the more they stick to the rules, do things by the book.

It inevitably fails because you have to be able to think on your feet and change things to suit the situation.

In coaching the effect is twofold, because its that less capable coach who's written his own rulebook, not somebody more able in a higher position.

I believe this explains perfectly Frank Bush's initial success followed by later failure, as he tried to mold the players to fit his scheme.

From what I see, Wade's scheme is a pretty flimsy concept, hybrid 3-4/4-3, changing depending on the personnel available, and allowing the players to perform to their strengths.
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Old 04-28-2012   #13
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Default Re: 4 Man fronts

Lots of packages available now with another high effort 5tech and an athletic OLB in the fray.

With 4 hands in the dirt I think you could have any combo of the following:

Inside: Antonio, Watt, Crick, Mitchell
Edge rusher: Barwin, Reed, Mercilus, Watt, Cushing, Braman

The Combos are endless and all viable. THIS is the pass rush we've been longing for. Mario Williams left and it's going to take another step FORWARD. Fresh legs, lots of will power and plenty of talent, this front 7 is going to be hell on wheels.
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Old 04-28-2012   #14
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Default Re: 4 Man fronts

Four man fronts
Barwin/Watt/Smith/Reed
Mercilus/Crick/Jamison/Braman
Mitchell and Cody can play the DTs also

the ILBs/Nickel/Dime
Cushing and Sharpton
James and Dobbins

Cushing would be the LB in the dime, followed by Sharpton whenever he's resting or hurt, then James, or Dobbins.
Sharpton and James are interchangeable cuz we don't know who'll be starting, I'd prefer Sharpton though.

the DBs
Joseph LCB
Kareem RCB
Brice Nickel
Harris Dime
Quin Safety
Manning Safety

Manning and Quin can move down into nickel/dime and we can put in another safety at the top, troy nolan or queintin demps. the other two unnamed dbs are sherrick mcmanis and roc carmichael (if we're carrying 6 CBs)
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Old 04-28-2012   #15
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Default Re: 4 Man fronts

Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_txtech View Post
Who is going to come in on DL when we go to our Nickel and Dime packages?

We have a lot of options but right now I'm thinking

Barwin Watt Smith Mercilus

Thoughts?
yup, though smith and watt will be swapped (watt at LDT and smith RDT more often than not), and the DE's will change their alignment often. reed, nading, and braman will sub at DE. crick, mitchell, and jamison will sub at tackle. we have the versatility to go heavier or lighter depending on varying situations, but that will be the standard.

cushing's going to be out there basically every down, with sharpton probably getting most of the 42 nickel snaps (james getting the first two downs).
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Old 04-28-2012   #16
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Default Re: 4 Man fronts

I hope Wade doesn't do away with bumping Quinn down to a joker position and bringing in another safety. That was a very succesful formation for us last year.

I'd rather not have Reed or Mercilus playing LB in the Nickel. I'd rather they just be in a rotation and keeping the D-line and OLB's fresh.

In some long passing situations I would like to see Watt, Smith, Crick, Merci, and Reed on the field all rushing the passer though.

Merci, Watt, Crick, Smith, Reed on the line all going after the QB with Cushing At LB behind them. Mix in some Cush-blitzes and QB's are going to be in trouble..
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Old 04-28-2012   #17
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Default Re: 4 Man fronts

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I hope Wade doesn't do away with bumping Quinn down to a joker position and bringing in another safety. That was a very succesful formation for us last year.

I'd rather not have Reed or Mercilus playing LB in the Nickel. I'd rather they just be in a rotation and keeping the D-line and OLB's fresh.

In some long passing situations I would like to see Watt, Smith, Crick, Merci, and Reed on the field all rushing the passer though.

Merci, Watt, Crick, Smith, Reed on the line all going after the QB with Cushing At LB behind them. Mix in some Cush-blitzes and QB's are going to be in trouble..
while nice, and probably somewhere on the menu because of wade's 52 base, i think we'd be better off with a traditional nickel alignment and i'm guessing wade feels the same. the difference being cushing - an elite level blitzer inside or out, he allows a more creative gameplan. in those situations you want to be more flexible and having two cover linebackers gives you that when one can also move along the line to choose his target, as opposed to a slightly more overwhelming but much more obvious front.
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Old 04-28-2012   #18
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Default Re: 4 Man fronts

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while nice, and probably somewhere on the menu because of wade's 52 base, i think we'd be better off with a traditional nickel alignment and i'm guessing wade feels the same. the difference being cushing - an elite level blitzer inside or out, he allows a more creative gameplan. in those situations you want to be more flexible and having two cover linebackers gives you that when one can also move along the line to choose his target, as opposed to a slightly more overwhelming but much more obvious front.
I said in some (keyword being some) situations.

If I'm going off of what Wade did last year I would guess that he'd continue to use the three safety Nickel package with Quinn basically playing the second LB.

My point was that we have flexibility now and can be creative. I didn't say that should be our base nickel package.
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Old 04-28-2012   #19
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Default Re: 4 Man fronts

appologies, i assumed too much reading your post - i read it as more of requesting it as the standard long distance formation. dont get me wrong, i'd love to see it as well on a few occasions. when playing around with play designs mirroring wade's system, i actually did create 5/1 options pretty often. like i said i'm sure wade's got it on the menu, but i dont see it actually showing up because the preferred flexibility (like the 3S you mentioned for example) belongs in the secondary much more than in the front in passing situations.
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