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Old 05-25-2012   #441
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Default Re: 3rd Round DeVier Posey WR Ohio State

Schaub's play fakes are not the reason that Andre and other receivers get so wide open. Sorry.

Not that he doesn't do a good job of executing it, but he's not even close to the main reason the play action is so successful at drawing defenders up.
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Old 05-25-2012   #442
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How else do you explain #80 with no one within 10+ yards of him on so many occasions when defenses are designed to stop the guy ??.
This amazes me too, and not just that it happens, but how often it happens.
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Old 05-25-2012   #443
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Default Re: 3rd Round DeVier Posey WR Ohio State

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Schaub's play fakes are not the reason that Andre and other receivers get so wide open. Sorry.

Not that he doesn't do a good job of executing it, but he's not even close to the main reason the play action is so successful at drawing defenders up.
Running the ball the way they do to go along with the play action sure helps .
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Old 05-25-2012   #444
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Default Re: 3rd Round DeVier Posey WR Ohio State

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Schaub's play fakes are not the reason that Andre and other receivers get so wide open. Sorry.

Not that he doesn't do a good job of executing it, but he's not even close to the main reason the play action is so successful at drawing defenders up.
Schaubs play fakes arent the only reason but they ARE a contributing factor.

For those who dont think that Schaubs play fakes arent that good .... you need to go back and watch some replays.




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Running the ball the way they do to go along with the play action sure helps .
They were able to get the same type of results on play action when Ron Dayne was the primary back ....
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Old 05-25-2012   #445
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Default Re: 3rd Round DeVier Posey WR Ohio State

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Schaubs play fakes arent the only reason but they ARE a contributing factor.

For those who dont think that Schaubs play fakes arent that good .... you need to go back and watch some replays.






They were able to get the same type of results on play action when Ron Dayne was the primary back ....
Yep! The scheme and the quarterback are huge factors!
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Old 05-25-2012   #446
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Default Re: 3rd Round DeVier Posey WR Ohio State

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Yep! The scheme and the quarterback are huge factors!
Dont forget about #80.
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Old 05-25-2012   #447
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Default Re: 3rd Round DeVier Posey WR Ohio State

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Dont forget about #80.
Never could! That goes without saying... just re-enforcing that Kubiak puts them in a position to succeed
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Old 05-25-2012   #448
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Default Re: 3rd Round DeVier Posey WR Ohio State

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Never could! That goes without saying... just re-enforcing that Kubiak puts them in a position to succeed
At least on one side of the ball ..... The combination of & .... solves the other side.
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Old 05-26-2012   #449
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Default Re: 3rd Round DeVier Posey WR Ohio State

i thought this thread was about Posey lol Schuab has a good play action.. because he does the same thing on every run play. He pauses and rolls out on every zone running plays. The play action it's self isn't good but setting it up. I played QB and I remember my coach drilling that into my head lol
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Old 05-26-2012   #450
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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
Schaubs play fakes arent the only reason but they ARE a contributing factor.

For those who dont think that Schaubs play fakes arent that good .... you need to go back and watch some replays.






They were able to get the same type of results on play action when Ron Dayne was the primary back ....
Who said his play fakes aren't good?

They also got the same results on play action when other qb's have been in the game.

And Arian becoming who he is has helped open things up tremendously. The threat of Arian and the fact that the oline looks exactly the same is a much bigger factor than what schaub does.

And no the play action was not as successful when our running game sucked.
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Old 05-26-2012   #451
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Default Re: 3rd Round DeVier Posey WR Ohio State

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
And no the play action was not as successful when our running game sucked.
Do you have any facts behind that assertion? Because everything I've seen indicates the opposite.
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Old 05-26-2012   #452
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Default Re: 3rd Round DeVier Posey WR Ohio State

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Do you have any facts behind that assertion? Because everything I've seen indicates the opposite.
Lucky is right, even when our running game was bad we had one of the best play action passing games in the league.
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Old 05-26-2012   #453
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Default Re: 3rd Round DeVier Posey WR Ohio State

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Do you have any facts behind that assertion? Because everything I've seen indicates the opposite.
Yeah, I remember specifically in the totally suck running game season thinking they were going to have to abandon it and commenting to folks that I was surprised at how it continued to work so well.
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Old 05-26-2012   #454
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Default Re: 3rd Round DeVier Posey WR Ohio State

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Yeah, I remember specifically in the totally suck running game season thinking they were going to have to abandon it and commenting to folks that I was surprised at how it continued to work so well.
I don't think there's any statistical way to corroborate it, but I clearly remember numerous comments during the 2009 season (#30 in the NFL in rushing yards and #1 in the NFL in passing yards) expressing pleasant surprise about the effectiveness of the play action passing game. Seems like the comments usually started something like "I'm not sure why it's still working but..."
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Old 05-26-2012   #455
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Default Re: 3rd Round DeVier Posey WR Ohio State

I totally agree with Lucky on this one. It always surprised me how hard teams (and camera men) bit on our play-action fakes when our running game sucked. Did they bite "AS hard"? I don't know. I thought they did. They definitely bit REALLY hard on them, they might just bite a little bit harder now.

Here's a little something I remembered from 2009, early in the year before Slaton developed as a threat and before we'd had a single back run for over 100 yards in a game:

Warning the 49ers about Schaub's play action fakes.

One of the take aways of that is that in 2009 by the time we played the Niners, Schaub was posting a 133 passer rating on play action fake passes. And at that time,

And then the next week, Schaub killed the Niners with the play-action.

Quote:
Schaub's latest touchdown pass, a 42-yarder to a wide-open Owen Daniels, followed a play-action fake that fooled the 49ers. It fooled me, too. I was watching the running back for about three steps before realizing Schaub was standing alone in the backfield, watching Daniels break into the clear.
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Old 05-26-2012   #456
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Do you have any facts behind that assertion? Because everything I've seen indicates the opposite.
No I don't have any facts just like no one has any facts to the contrary. I didn't say it didn't work, I said it didn't work as well.

And everything I've seen indicates that's true. Teams bite a lot harder on the play action stretch with this version of the texans than they have in the past.
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Old 05-26-2012   #457
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I totally agree with Lucky on this one. It always surprised me how hard teams (and camera men) bit on our play-action fakes when our running game sucked. Did they bite "AS hard"? I don't know. I thought they did. They definitely bit REALLY hard on them, they might just bite a little bit harder now.

Here's a little something I remembered from 2009, early in the year before Slaton developed as a threat and before we'd had a single back run for over 100 yards in a game:

Warning the 49ers about Schaub's play action fakes.

One of the take aways of that is that in 2009 by the time we played the Niners, Schaub was posting a 133 passer rating on play action fake passes. And at that time,

And then the next week, Schaub killed the Niners with the play-action.
None of that proves anything other than the play action is successful which is why kubiak runs it in the first place.

And in the link you posted they talk a out the o line and the scheme.

And in the quote you posted they talk about the running back.

Kubiak's stretch play action is very successful. Have not disputed that. Schaub does a good job executing his play fakes and I even said earlier that what he does after the play fake is far more impressive than the actual play fake.

What I am disputing is that schaubs play fakes are what makes the play action tick. Out of all the factors I'd say it's probably last. O line, rb, wr's then schaub. It's the entire action of the offense. If he's doing a play action fake just dropping straight back defenses don't bit as hard.

The scheme helps take away the importance of individual players and puts in on the entire action of the play. That's why teams respect it regardless of whether schaub is running it or whether Yates or sage ran it. That's why they respect it whether it's Arian or bad slaton.

But it starts with the o line. Their action is the biggest individual factor in selling the run. Period. And really, they aren't doing anything earth shattering either. Just playing within the scheme.
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Old 05-26-2012   #458
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Default Re: 3rd Round DeVier Posey WR Ohio State

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No I don't have any facts just like no one has any facts to the contrary.
Stats.com tracks passer rating for play action. I thought you might have access to that when you made that statement. You don't. Maybe someone else does.
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Old 05-26-2012   #459
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Default Re: 3rd Round DeVier Posey WR Ohio State

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None of that proves anything other than the play action is successful which is why kubiak runs it in the first place.

And in the link you posted they talk a out the o line and the scheme.

And in the quote you posted they talk about the running back.

Kubiak's stretch play action is very successful. Have not disputed that. Schaub does a good job executing his play fakes and I even said earlier that what he does after the play fake is far more impressive than the actual play fake.

What I am disputing is that schaubs play fakes are what makes the play action tick. Out of all the factors I'd say it's probably last. O line, rb, wr's then schaub. It's the entire action of the offense. If he's doing a play action fake just dropping straight back defenses don't bit as hard.

The scheme helps take away the importance of individual players and puts in on the entire action of the play. That's why teams respect it regardless of whether schaub is running it or whether Yates or sage ran it. That's why they respect it whether it's Arian or bad slaton.

But it starts with the o line. Their action is the biggest individual factor in selling the run. Period. And really, they aren't doing anything earth shattering either. Just playing within the scheme.
Im just gonna agree to disagree and move on ..... So much of this is subjective anyway ....
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Old 05-27-2012   #460
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And everything I've seen indicates that's true. Teams bite a lot harder on the play action stretch with this version of the texans than they have in the past.
It is true for the most part...teams with sub-par running games can't go out there play-action passing like the Texans do multiple times a game and expect it to work as well... The running game the '10 and '11 Texans had makes it a lot easier to succeed with it multiple times, because even if the D thinks it might be play-action, they know the Texans are just as likely to kill them on the ground (the only reason Jacoby was able to burn Reed in the regular season)... with a sub-par running game, the D can afford to keep a man out of the box...
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