Maybe last years draft wasn't all Phillips.

[DocBar]

Originally Posted by Lucky

Not sure what this has to do with last year. It's documented that Phillips gave Smith a list of players he wanted. And Smith drafted 5 of them.

Credit Smith for actually drafting the players. He did move up to take Harris. But it was Phillips' list he was drafting from.

Originally Posted by Wolf6151

Last years draft was 2011 not 2009.

Did either of you happen to follow the link provided? The article was about the 10 best drafts between 2008 and 2010. I titled the thread the way I did to point out that the Texans have had good drafts before Phillips got here.

I didn't do that to downplay Phillips or overly prop up Smith.

Phillips has definitely been the catalyst for the defensive turn around and a positive influence on the team, as a whole, but Smith is, imho, turning into a rather nice talent evaluator. He's not perfect, but name me a GM who is.

[b0ng]

Originally Posted by DocBar

He's not perfect, but name me a GM who is.

Mickey Loomis






AAAAAAAAAH j/k

[DocBar]

Originally Posted by b0ng

Mickey Loomis






AAAAAAAAAH j/k

That's funny right there...

[Mr teX]

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

You would think Rick may watch a little film so that he could be educated on those lists. He** he might even compile a list of his own? (Doubtful)

& here we go....I'm pretty certain that no GM on any sports franchise does that....well maybe except for Daryl Morey & look at his last couple of drafts. It's very unwise to not include your coaches in that process. Why draft & bring in players that your coaches may not necessarily like?

[steelbtexan]

Originally Posted by b0ng

Since you've got the finger very close to the pulse of the Texans FO office, what are Rick Smith's preparations exactly?

Typical response

We do know Rick takes a consensus. Probably whoever Gary wants on offense and Wade wants on Defense. As it should be. As far as a talent evaluator Rick is avg to below avg. He's as good as the people around him. He's certianly no Colbert/BB/Thompson when it comes to talent evaluation. 1 playoff appearence in 6 yrs doesn't change that. But you seem to be a person who will defend all that is Texans regardless of the lack of playoff appearances. If the OL gets worse next yr you will have an excuse and everthing will be hunky- dory (status quo/mediocrity, hopefully this doesn't happen but there will be excuses from you.)

Clue me in oh wise one on the great Rick Smith and his role with the Texans. If you know this answer you will be one of the few that does know what his actual role with the team is.

I can tell you this fairly certianly it isn't lead talent evaluator as it is for the GM's I mentioned above.

[drs23]

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

Typical response

We do know Rick takes a consensus. Probably whoever Gary wants on offense and Wade wants on Defense. As it should be. As far as a talent evaluator Rick is avg to below avg. He's as good as the people around him. He's certianly no Colbert/BB/Thompson when it comes to talent evaluation. 1 playoff appearence in 6 yrs doesn't change that. But you seem to be a person who will defend all that is Texans regardless of the lack of playoff appearances. If the OL gets worse next yr you will have an excuse and everthing will be hunky- dory (status quo/mediocrity, hopefully this doesn't happen but there will be excuses from you.)

Clue me in oh wise one on the great Rick Smith and his role with the Texans. If you know this answer you will be one of the few that does know what his actual role with the team is.

I can tell you this fairly certianly it isn't lead talent evaluator as it is for the GM's I mentioned above.

0.09375% of the sitting GMs then? Hmmm, less than 1% of all 32 sitting GMs dun't make a real valid comparison point in my opinion steelb. But hey, that's prolly just me, another .

[burro]

Last years draft isn't a great metric to judge this year's draft by considering that the bulk of our needs are on offense. Smithiak needs to step up.

[steelbtexan]

Originally Posted by burro

Last years draft isn't a great metric to judge this year's draft by considering that the bulk of our needs are on offense. Smithiak needs to step up.

Yep,

I hope Gary does as good as Wade did last yr with his list. If Gary really wants a guy do you see Rick saying, no Gary you cant have him we're taking this guy. Same with Wade.

[DocBar]

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

Typical response

We do know Rick takes a consensus. Probably whoever Gary wants on offense and Wade wants on Defense. As it should be. As far as a talent evaluator Rick is avg to below avg. He's as good as the people around him. He's certianly no Colbert/BB/Thompson when it comes to talent evaluation. 1 playoff appearence in 6 yrs doesn't change that. But you seem to be a person who will defend all that is Texans regardless of the lack of playoff appearances. If the OL gets worse next yr you will have an excuse and everthing will be hunky- dory (status quo/mediocrity, hopefully this doesn't happen but there will be excuses from you.)

Clue me in oh wise one on the great Rick Smith and his role with the Texans. If you know this answer you will be one of the few that does know what his actual role with the team is.

I can tell you this fairly certianly it isn't lead talent evaluator as it is for the GM's I mentioned above.

I agree with the bolded. Maybe that's why the offense has been so much better than the defense for 5 of 6 years. Smith doesn't pick coordinators, HC's do. Kubiak has chosen poorly at DC.

This season should be very, very telling as far as personnel decisions go, considering the players we let go.

[dc_txtech]

Originally Posted by Lucky

Not sure what this has to do with last year. It's documented that Phillips gave Smith a list of players he wanted. And Smith drafted 5 of them.

Credit Smith for actually drafting the players. He did move up to take Harris. But it was Phillips' list he was drafting from.

I thought it was the other way around, Smith gave Wade a list and Wade edited it down to who he thought would work in his system and Smith then chose from those names.

I definitely remember the quote you're referring to though.

[b0ng]

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

Typical response

We do know Rick takes a consensus. Probably whoever Gary wants on offense and Wade wants on Defense. As it should be. As far as a talent evaluator Rick is avg to below avg. He's as good as the people around him. He's certianly no Colbert/BB/Thompson when it comes to talent evaluation. 1 playoff appearence in 6 yrs doesn't change that. But you seem to be a person who will defend all that is Texans regardless of the lack of playoff appearances. If the OL gets worse next yr you will have an excuse and everthing will be hunky- dory (status quo/mediocrity, hopefully this doesn't happen but there will be excuses from you.)

Clue me in oh wise one on the great Rick Smith and his role with the Texans. If you know this answer you will be one of the few that does know what his actual role with the team is.

I can tell you this fairly certianly it isn't lead talent evaluator as it is for the GM's I mentioned above.

Explain to me how you come to the conclusion that Rick Smith is a below average talent evaluator. Like I said in the other thread, you basically give any positive credit to other people around Smith, and any negative credit goes to him whether he is responsible or not.

Or for you, it's just business as usual.

[House of Pain]

Originally Posted by BigBull17

Agreed. Bush didn't know his elbow from his *******.

True, but he may have some sort of rare disease. Apparently, he can't tell the difference between a bar and his hotel room the night before games in Denver.

[Goldensilence]

I think its really hard to tell with Rick period.

Last year showed us what a difference an at least competent DC (we got lucky and got a great one) that has a REAL scheme can do for a defense. It made the draft posted much better because we had people doing what they should be doing. Cush was lights out but, thats no matter what position. If they had better depth at CB I think Quinn would've moved to safetya long time ago. Barwin, when drafted, was projected to be a great 3-4 OLB...guess what? He produced much better as an OLB than an undersized DE.

When any GM leans on their coaching staff so much for input its really hard to grade the GM himself. Really its up to the coaching staff to make good on utilizing what they request.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by DocBar

LINK
Just some food for thought here.

I don't really see too much difference between last years draft & the draft from years before.

2006, Mario Williams & Demeco Ryans. You can't tell me those two players did not make as good if not better an impact on this team as JjWatt & Brooks Reed.

2007, Amobi Okoye & Matt Schaub, eh.....

2008, Duane Brown & Matt Schaub, two big time contributers.

2009, Brian Cushing & Connor Barwin, I guarantee you if we lost either of those two guys last season, we wouldn't have made the play-offs. Guarantee.

Mario is the only guy that doesn't fit the high motor, team leader mold, & Richard Smith (who I'm not particularly a big fan of) didn't pick him.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Goldensilence

Last year showed us what a difference an at least competent DC (we got lucky and got a great one) that has a REAL scheme can do for a defense.

I also think we overstate Wade's competence, or at least the incompetence of Frank Bush & Richard Smith. Frank Bush didn't all of a sudden get incompetent after 2009 & Kareem isn't so bad a draft pick to drop us to the worst pass defense in history to that point (surpassed by the Packers & Patriots this year).

Balls.

That's what Wade had that those other guys didn't. It wasn't our lack of scheme that had the Texans ranked 20th or so in total defense, it was our pansy coaches belief that the prevent defense should be played for 3 quarters.

That was the primary difference between Frank Bush 2009 & Frank Bush 2010. 2009, we attacked the ball, all the time. 2010 we had Bernard Pollard covering slot receivers.

[Lucky]

Originally Posted by buddyboy

Not that I don't believe you, but where is the documented evidence of this? Just curious because things tend to become fact around here after enough people say it...

Originally Posted by dc_txtech

I thought it was the other way around, Smith gave Wade a list and Wade edited it down to who he thought would work in his system and Smith then chose from those names.

I definitely remember the quote you're referring to though.

From PFT

Hiring Phillips was another validation. Kubiak and G.M. Rick Smith deserve the blame for Houston’s consistent defensive struggles over the last few years, and now they have essentially turned things over to Phillips.


Kubiak said that previous coordinators cut their list of potential defensive draft picks to roughly 50-60 prospects. Phillips got the list to 15-20, and the Texans drafted five of them.


“It was locked in before we went to draft day,” Kubiak said. “He knew exactly what he wanted.”


Kubiak’s future now depends on Phillips being right.

I'm not trying to get into a Rick Smith bash session. The Texans did have an excellent draft in 2009. Smith was a part of that. So was Frank Bush, who loved Brian Cushing. But the dynamic now is Wade letting Rick know what he wants on defense. Not Rick telling Wade what he needs. Rick still has to make it happen on draft day(s).

[steelbtexan]

Mercilus was definitely a Wade pick.

And a great one at that.

[steelbtexan]

Originally Posted by b0ng

Explain to me how you come to the conclusion that Rick Smith is a below average talent evaluator. Like I said in the other thread, you basically give any positive credit to other people around Smith, and any negative credit goes to him whether he is responsible or not.

Or for you, it's just business as usual.

My response is that he doesn't evaluate talent and he should. It's his job.

Look at Luckys response above at what role Rick plays in drafting talent.

The fact that Norg could do Ricks job when it comes to the draft says it all.

Rick and Gary provide lists, if Gary and Wade both want a player for their side of the ball, Garys side will probably win out. (He is the HC)

Rick gets no credit because he is hardly involed in the process. He gets blame if things dont work out for the same reason. I think you already know this but are just being Bong.

What do you think of Phillps pick? (Mercilus)

[Goldensilence]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

I also think we overstate Wade's competence, or at least the incompetence of Frank Bush & Richard Smith. Frank Bush didn't all of a sudden get incompetent after 2009 & Kareem isn't so bad a draft pick to drop us to the worst pass defense in history to that point (surpassed by the Packers & Patriots this year).

Balls.

That's what Wade had that those other guys didn't. It wasn't our lack of scheme that had the Texans ranked 20th or so in total defense, it was our pansy coaches belief that the prevent defense should be played for 3 quarters.

That was the primary difference between Frank Bush 2009 & Frank Bush 2010. 2009, we attacked the ball, all the time. 2010 we had Bernard Pollard covering slot receivers.

I would have been happy had the defense under Bush and Smith finished in the high 20's regularly, sad as that sounds.

The defense had no clue under Bush and Smith. They so often looked out of place, confused on assignments, and they had routinely had no clue on matching personnel to... Whatever crap they were trying to run.

As incompetent as both were I have to wonder how much Gary played a role in that.

Far as overstating Wade's competence? Ummm dead last in the league prior to arrival... Fininhed second overall after first year.

I want some of what you're smoking.

[JB]

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

Typical response

We do know Rick takes a consensus. Probably whoever Gary wants on offense and Wade wants on Defense. As it should be. As far as a talent evaluator Rick is avg to below avg. He's as good as the people around him. He's certianly no Colbert/BB/Thompson when it comes to talent evaluation. 1 playoff appearence in 6 yrs doesn't change that. But you seem to be a person who will defend all that is Texans regardless of the lack of playoff appearances. If the OL gets worse next yr you will have an excuse and everthing will be hunky- dory (status quo/mediocrity, hopefully this doesn't happen but there will be excuses from you.)

Clue me in oh wise one on the great Rick Smith and his role with the Texans. If you know this answer you will be one of the few that does know what his actual role with the team is.

I can tell you this fairly certianly it isn't lead talent evaluator as it is for the GM's I mentioned above.

Just curious, how do you know these are great talent evaluators and not taking consensus from their coaches and scouting departments. They all do have extensive scouting departments right?