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Old 04-11-2012   #21
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Default Re: How will Winston's loss affect this season's on-field play

I say we bring back Seth Wand ?
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Old 04-11-2012   #22
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Default Re: How will Winston's loss affect this season's on-field play

I get what you're saying about why they might pick a QB, but I don't think they would pick Keenum unless it was in the second half of the draft.
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Old 04-11-2012   #23
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Default Re: How will Winston's loss affect this season's on-field play

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I thunk that was the 12th? Or is my calender FUBAR'D?
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Old 04-11-2012   #24
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Default Re: How will Winston's loss affect this season's on-field play

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I think Butler will be capable in replacing Winston. Possibly better in pass protection.

I am more concerned about getting good guard play right now.Can Wade Smith recover from a mediocre year? Is Caldwell capable of stepping up his game with more reps?
I agree. Butler did well for Brown and should do as well as Winston. Now will he have to help Caldwell more that Winston helped Briesel? Also, CND's info on Caldwell's injuries should also allow Caldwell to play better imo. I think a better pass option than JJ or another better TE in 2 TE sets will make us an even more proficient offense. This draft should allow us to add better depth. I am more concerned about Schaub and RG than RT.
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Old 04-11-2012   #25
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Default Re: How will Winston's loss affect this season's on-field play

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Re: How will Winston's loss affect this season's on-field play
I dunno how it will effect the Texans, but I certainly hope it doesn't effect his involvement with Gary's foundation... Link: Gary J Lynn Foundation

Eric Winston was, and I hope will continue to be in the future, be a huge contributor to the foundation!!
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Old 04-12-2012   #26
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Default Re: How will Winston's loss affect this season's on-field play

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What is the net effect of Winston's loss? Is it probable that run blocking is worse? Is it probable that pass protection is better? Is the net effect a push, positive, or negative?
Winston is the superior run blocker. That said, Butler should be good enough to spring the best RB and best backup RB in the league. I think it's a push, at worst, in pass protection. Still, I would like to see the Texans bring in a blocking TE to help Butler with the speed rushers.

The most negative effect is in terms of depth. Winston never missed a start, so you weren't concerned with who was playing behind him. Butler has had medical/injury issues that have kept him off the field. And he's never been a regular starter. The Texans must find a competent backup to Butler (if they feel they don't already posses one in Derek Newton).
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Old 04-12-2012   #27
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Default Re: How will Winston's loss affect this season's on-field play

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Well, the Texans rushed to the right side heavily this year, more so than almost ever other team did (NYG tied, GB 40%). I don't think that was an accident, but rather by design because they got great push from Winston. He was a great runblocking RT, and the Texans used that to their advantage.

I think we will see a step back in our run production this year due to the downgrade on the right side, but it will likely be overtaken by increased passing. Last year we ran it a lot more than usual by about 100 more carries total.


Stats from FBO if anyone wants to look at it:

Total runs: 26% left, 41% mid, 33% right
That is some interesting stuff, I saw Lance Zierlein had an article recently with slightly different numbers but still favoring runs to the right. I believe the O-line as a whole takes a step back this year and we see the numbers either even out or skew to the left a bit. Hopefully Duane becomes to the run game what he has become as a pass protector. I think its very possible that he does and that would go a long way to mitigating our losses.
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Old 04-13-2012   #28
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Default Re: How will Winston's loss affect this season's on-field play

Butler filled in for Winston at the U when winston went down his senior year. They were just fine. Caldwell played all of 2010, when healthy he's a very capable RG.
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Old 04-13-2012   #29
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Default Re: How will Winston's loss affect this season's on-field play

Hadn't thought of this until today, but the final game of the season against the Titans featured Caldwell, Austin and Newton quite a bit. After halftime, the line became: Brown - Smith - Austin - Caldwell/S. Smith - Winston/Newton (didn't see Butler in any of the plays)

So there is some tape out there of what it may look like next year. If anyone has a copy of that game, it may be worth it to check out the second half. I'll check TYT for it sometime this weekend. Granted having Myers at Center ought to make a big difference over Austin, we should still be able to evaluate the RG and RT play. I found a few clips of it on NFL.com that I'll link here. I'll try to explain some of these as best I can. (really wish they had slo-mo...)

1st quarter play, Tate runs for a 4 yard TD. LINK Oline is: Brown? - W Smith - Myers - Caldwell - Winston - Dreessen
I like this play because Caldwell really helps Tate punch it in the end zone. Caldwell chips Myers guy at the line and then proceeds to take a step forward and blocks the Titans LB Whitherspoon, which stands him up, Vickers comes in late to push him back too. Tate follows right behind and bashes through the other LB to get the TD. Good power by Caldwell to push back the LB and make room for Tate to run by.

This is a bad one for Caldwell LINK. Early 1st quarter, Caldwell is the RG, and Jurrell Casey runs right by him and sacks Yates. Iirc, this is the play that bruised Yates' shoulder. Titans bring 6 guys and Yates gets gobbled up by two of them. 99 (Casey) goes right of Caldwell, while 90 takes a step towards Winston, then stunts back to the other side of Caldwell. I'm not sure if there was a miscommunication between him and Winston or what, because he may have been trying to pass 99 off to Winston. Either way, he didn't block either guy, but Winston wasn't much help either.

2nd Q 6:35 to go, Delhomme is stripped of the ball, LINK. Line is:
Brown - W Smith - Myers - Caldwell - Winston
Fwiw, Caldwell and Winston do a good job double teaming 1 guy at the line, but the other 4 guys get to Delhomme and force the turnover. Winston probably should have left the double team and blocked the outside guy, but Ward did try to pick him up. The sack/fumble should probably be credited against Wade Smith on this play. Brown tried to pass off the guy to Smith so he could block the outside rusher, but Smith was out of position to pick him up.


On this play: LINK it looks like a run to the right tackle, but the line gets blown up at the snap and the Titans almost get Tate for a loss. Tate avoids the first tackle and then cuts back to the middle and runs for a 56 yard gain. Vickers made a good block on the left side to keep the lane open for him. I'm having trouble seeing the center's number, but I believe the line was setup like this:
Brown - Smith - Austin - Caldwell - Newton - Dreessen
In any case, it didn't look very good for Caldwell and Newton as they both get moved back at the snap.

4th quarter 3:48 to go, the whole o-line fails on this one, LINK. Line setup:
Gardner - W Smith - Austin - Caldwell - Winston
Wade Smith doesn't even try to block 99 Casey coming up the middle, Austin tries to pick him up but doesn't have the position to do so and gives him an open lane to the QB. Caldwell can't hold position to create space for Delhomme to step into the pocket to avoid the two pass rushers on the edge, so there were about 4 different ways he could be sacked on this play.

Not very encouraging overall, but Eric's poor pass protection makes me less concerned that he is gone. The lack of Butler makes me wonder if was playing or inactive for the game. Seems odd, maybe Newton will be the RT next year?
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Old 04-13-2012   #30
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Default Re: How will Winston's loss affect this season's on-field play

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Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
Hadn't thought of this until today, but the final game of the season against the Titans featured Caldwell, Austin and Newton quite a bit. After halftime, the line became: Brown - Smith - Austin - Caldwell/S. Smith - Winston/Newton (didn't see Butler in any of the plays)

So there is some tape out there of what it may look like next year. If anyone has a copy of that game, it may be worth it to check out the second half. I'll check TYT for it sometime this weekend. Granted having Myers at Center ought to make a big difference over Austin, we should still be able to evaluate the RG and RT play. I found a few clips of it on NFL.com that I'll link here. I'll try to explain some of these as best I can. (really wish they had slo-mo...)

1st quarter play, Tate runs for a 4 yard TD. LINK Oline is: Brown? - W Smith - Myers - Caldwell - Winston - Dreessen
I like this play because Caldwell really helps Tate punch it in the end zone. Caldwell chips Myers guy at the line and then proceeds to take a step forward and blocks the Titans LB Whitherspoon, which stands him up, Vickers comes in late to push him back too. Tate follows right behind and bashes through the other LB to get the TD. Good power by Caldwell to push back the LB and make room for Tate to run by.

This is a bad one for Caldwell LINK. Early 1st quarter, Caldwell is the RG, and Jurrell Casey runs right by him and sacks Yates. Iirc, this is the play that bruised Yates' shoulder. Titans bring 6 guys and Yates gets gobbled up by two of them. 99 (Casey) goes right of Caldwell, while 90 takes a step towards Winston, then stunts back to the other side of Caldwell. I'm not sure if there was a miscommunication between him and Winston or what, because he may have been trying to pass 99 off to Winston. Either way, he didn't block either guy, but Winston wasn't much help either.

2nd Q 6:35 to go, Delhomme is stripped of the ball, LINK. Line is:
Brown - W Smith - Myers - Caldwell - Winston
Fwiw, Caldwell and Winston do a good job double teaming 1 guy at the line, but the other 4 guys get to Delhomme and force the turnover. Winston probably should have left the double team and blocked the outside guy, but Ward did try to pick him up. The sack/fumble should probably be credited against Wade Smith on this play. Brown tried to pass off the guy to Smith so he could block the outside rusher, but Smith was out of position to pick him up.


On this play: LINK it looks like a run to the right tackle, but the line gets blown up at the snap and the Titans almost get Tate for a loss. Tate avoids the first tackle and then cuts back to the middle and runs for a 56 yard gain. Vickers made a good block on the left side to keep the lane open for him. I'm having trouble seeing the center's number, but I believe the line was setup like this:
Brown - Smith - Austin - Caldwell - Newton - Dreessen
In any case, it didn't look very good for Caldwell and Newton as they both get moved back at the snap.

4th quarter 3:48 to go, the whole o-line fails on this one, LINK. Line setup:
Gardner - W Smith - Austin - Caldwell - Winston
Wade Smith doesn't even try to block 99 Casey coming up the middle, Austin tries to pick him up but doesn't have the position to do so and gives him an open lane to the QB. Caldwell can't hold position to create space for Delhomme to step into the pocket to avoid the two pass rushers on the edge, so there were about 4 different ways he could be sacked on this play.

Not very encouraging overall, but Eric's poor pass protection makes me less concerned that he is gone. The lack of Butler makes me wonder if was playing or inactive for the game. Seems odd, maybe Newton will be the RT next year?
I don't really agree with your premise. Butler went on IR after the second game of the season, and wasn't even an option, Caldwell was playing with two high ankle sprains, and as you mentioned, Myers wasn't in the middle. 40% of the line will flat out be different players, and another 20% could be a more effective player than he was at the time you referenced.

Additionally, continuity is a big deal for the O-line as has been mentioned numerous times, so even if the starting line is the 5 players currently expected, and even if everybody stays healthy (certainly not a given), the line you see in the first few games may not even give a good basis to evaluate how they'll look towards the middle and end of the year.
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Old 04-13-2012   #31
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Default Re: How will Winston's loss affect this season's on-field play

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I don't really agree with your premise. Butler went on IR after the second game of the season, and wasn't even an option, Caldwell was playing with two high ankle sprains, and as you mentioned, Myers wasn't in the middle. 40% of the line will flat out be different players, and another 20% could be a more effective player than he was at the time you referenced.

Additionally, continuity is a big deal for the O-line as has been mentioned numerous times, so even if the starting line is the 5 players currently expected, and even if everybody stays healthy (certainly not a given), the line you see in the first few games may not even give a good basis to evaluate how they'll look towards the middle and end of the year.
I forgot that Butler was IR'd, so that explains that.

I think this is a good game of reference for Caldwell at least. He played the entire game and in first half he played with Brown, W Smith, Myers and Winston. It's not like he played the whole game with backups, so we can see some differences in his ability with and without them. I saw him get blown up on a few of those plays, and I think it's important to watch, but I also see Wade Smith and Winston making mistakes too, and I pointed those out. We don't have much gametape on him from last year, so this is just one opportunity to see him in action.
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Old 04-14-2012   #32
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Default Re: How will Winston's loss affect this season's on-field play

I think one of the biggest things the Texans have going for them with Butler coming in is that it's his contract year (as it is with Caldwell) which means in addition to getting the opportunity to have the regular starter jobs handed to them and it theirs to lose, they have the tremendous additional incentive to leaverage their 2012 performances into a 2012-13 offseason monetary bonanza as free agents.
And I expect the Texans to draft no less than 2 offensive lineman besides other possible FA signings including undrafted rookie FAs. Big ops in Houston this fall for young, athletic Olineman who fit the ZBS to find a place on an NFL roster.
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