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Old 04-07-2012   #41
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Default Re: Texans Nightmare Pick

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
Aren't you forgetting pick #8?
Ouch! The one and only Amobi Okoye! Actually picked 10th after the trade with Atlanta.
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Old 04-07-2012   #42
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Default Re: Texans Nightmare Pick

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Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
Smith and Kubiak's drafting overall has been pretty decent I'm not sure why some of you are acting like their the next Matt Millen. Even as bad as Kareem Jackson is perceived by some of you, he's certainly no Vernon Gholston or Jason Smith or what have you. I think some of you are forgetting just how awful Charley Casserly was at the draft game all of a sudden.

I'm not saying either of these guys are Ozzie Newsome or whatever, but come on, the guy who said Rick Smith's DB drafting history was horrible is full of it. Glover Quin in the 4th, Brice McCain in the 6th, Troy Nolan in the 7th is pretty much the opposite of horrible. And Kubiak's offensive picks have not been bad outside of Jacoby Jones, and even then, he's certainly not the most offensive 3rd rounder anybody has ever seen my lord. John freaking Beck was picked 40th overall by the Dolphins. JOHN BECK. Ted Ginn went like 9th overall. TED GINN.

Kubiak as a gameday coach and Rick Smith as a cap manager? Yeah, not that great. But these guys do a decent job in the draft, which gets our hopes up, which are usually dashed by about week 12, which makes us angry, repeat.

A lot of people don't remember that when the dolphins took ginn, Adam Schefter came on air seconds later saying had the dolphins not taken ginn, we were going to with the 10th pick.
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Old 04-07-2012   #43
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Default Re: Texans Nightmare Pick

Ryan Tannehill or whatever his name is.
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Old 04-07-2012   #44
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Default Re: Texans Nightmare Pick

The only stellar draft in the Rick Smith era was last year & one could argue Wade Phillips was the heavy handed defensive guru that wanted JJ Watt & Brooks Reed. I will give him credit however as a good listener

Now will Texans FO still listen? With both DeMeco & Mario gone I sure hope so, hence reason why I started this thread. To gauge the pulse of my fellow, knowledgeable Texan fans.
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Last edited by beerlover; 04-07-2012 at 05:22 PM.
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Old 04-07-2012   #45
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Default Re: Texans Nightmare Pick

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Originally Posted by Premier View Post
Alshon Jeffrey came into his proday at 213 pounds and ran a high 4.4

That is exactly the problem.Which Jeffery do you get? The player who ballooned his last season or the one who dropped way below playing weight when he saw his status drop out of first round? Do you trust him to stay away from quarter pounders with cheese and chili fries when he has a million dollar deal?
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Old 04-07-2012   #46
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Default Re: Texans Nightmare Pick

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That is exactly the problem.Which Jeffery do you get? The player who ballooned his last season or the one who dropped way below playing weight when he saw his status drop out of first round? Do you trust him to stay away from quarter pounders with cheese and chili fries when he has a million dollar deal?
+1

When players suddenly drop weight before their pro day, then that should be a red flag. He had more than enough reasons to stay in shape all of last year, and he either couldn't or wouldn't.

Players typically gain weight when they enter the NFL, so big question marks with Jeffery.
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Old 04-07-2012   #47
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Default Re: Texans Nightmare Pick

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Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
Smith and Kubiak's drafting overall has been pretty decent I'm not sure why some of you are acting like their the next Matt Millen. Even as bad as Kareem Jackson is perceived by some of you, he's certainly no Vernon Gholston or Jason Smith or what have you. I think some of you are forgetting just how awful Charley Casserly was at the draft game all of a sudden.

I'm not saying either of these guys are Ozzie Newsome or whatever, but come on, the guy who said Rick Smith's DB drafting history was horrible is full of it. Glover Quin in the 4th, Brice McCain in the 6th, Troy Nolan in the 7th is pretty much the opposite of horrible. And Kubiak's offensive picks have not been bad outside of Jacoby Jones, and even then, he's certainly not the most offensive 3rd rounder anybody has ever seen my lord. John freaking Beck was picked 40th overall by the Dolphins. JOHN BECK. Ted Ginn went like 9th overall. TED GINN.

Kubiak as a gameday coach and Rick Smith as a cap manager? Yeah, not that great. But these guys do a decent job in the draft, which gets our hopes up, which are usually dashed by about week 12, which makes us angry, repeat.
1 playoff appearance in a decade. Rah-Rah-Rah

Decent is good enough for fans with low expectations. (Not me)
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Old 04-07-2012   #48
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Default Re: Texans Nightmare Pick

I just hope that they don't try to outsmart the rest of the league by drafting another small-school player like Jacoby.
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Old 04-07-2012   #49
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Default Re: Texans Nightmare Pick

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
The only stellar draft in the Rick Smith era was last year & one could argue Wade Phillips was the heavy handed defensive guru that wanted JJ Watt & Brooks Reed. I will give him credit however as a good listener

Now will Texans FO still listen? With both DeMeco & Mario gone I sure hope so, hence reason why I started this thread. To gauge the pulse of my fellow, knowledgeable Texan fans.
2009 was a FAR better draft than 2011. Quit giving wade smith all the credit.

2009
Cushing
Barwin
Caldwell
Quin
Casey
McCain
Nolan

2011 we got Watt and Reed. Both great, but behind them, what? Harris didn't play, Carmichael didn't play, Keo was ok on special teams, Yates was good, Newton barely played and Ozougwu didn't make the team

Also in 2009, Arian Foster.
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Old 04-07-2012   #50
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Default Re: Texans Nightmare Pick

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
The only stellar draft in the Rick Smith era was last year & one could argue Wade Phillips was the heavy handed defensive guru that wanted JJ Watt & Brooks Reed. I will give him credit however as a good listener.
also go back and watch the press conference from Thursday night and Friday morning and it is very clear that wade Phillips wanted Aldon Smith ahead of everyone else. To his credit, Aldon smith looks to be a great player, but to give wade credit for putting his foot down and tell Rick smith to draft jj watt is ridiculous.
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Old 04-07-2012   #51
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Default Re: Texans Nightmare Pick

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Originally Posted by redwhiteblue View Post
2009 was a FAR better draft than 2011. Quit giving wade smith all the credit.

2009
Cushing
Barwin
Caldwell
Quin
Casey
McCain
Nolan

2011 we got Watt and Reed. Both great, but behind them, what? Harris didn't play, Carmichael didn't play, Keo was ok on special teams, Yates was good, Newton barely played and Ozougwu didn't make the team

Also in 2009, Arian Foster.
What a ridiculous response. First of all, it's Wade Phillips, not Wade Smith.

Second, it's unfair to compare a draft from 3 years ago, in which players have had time to grow, to a draft held 11 months ago. Looking at your 2009 list, only one player made an impact in his first year - Cushing. Last year both Watt and Reed did.

At least be intellectually honest if you are going to post.
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Old 04-07-2012   #52
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Default Re: Texans Nightmare Pick

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Originally Posted by BullBlitz View Post
What a ridiculous response. First of all, it's Wade Phillips, not Wade Smith.

Second, it's unfair to compare a draft from 3 years ago, in which players have had time to grow, to a draft held 11 months ago. Looking at your 2009 list, only one player made an impact in his first year - Cushing. Last year both Watt and Reed did.

At least be intellectually honest if you are going to post.
I agree with you, but I do want to point out that your logic also applies in redwhiteblue's favour as well.

You can't really compare them because who's to say Cushing, McCain, Nolan, and Quin don't play well in their rookie years if Wade was a part of the team then?

Wade knows how to put his players in a position to succeed and maximize their strengths, and I feel like he would have had a field day with the 2009 draft.

Secondly, no matter what happens with the development of 2011 draft, I don't think it's as far fetched to say that even 2 years from now, the 11 draft and the 09 draft can't be comparable.
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Old 04-07-2012   #53
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Default Re: Texans Nightmare Pick

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Originally Posted by BullBlitz View Post
What a ridiculous response. First of all, it's Wade Phillips, not Wade Smith.

Second, it's unfair to compare a draft from 3 years ago, in which players have had time to grow, to a draft held 11 months ago. Looking at your 2009 list, only one player made an impact in his first year - Cushing. Last year both Watt and Reed did.

At least be intellectually honest if you are going to post.
The argument wasn't which draft was better. The poster said that rick smith had only one spectacular draft, 2011. I was trying to point out that 2009 was great too. Don't discredit my argument because I made a typo with wade Phillips name.
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Old 04-07-2012   #54
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Default Re: Texans Nightmare Pick

To me, a "ridiculous response" would be saying that this current front office has only had one good draft and wade Phillips came in and told everyone what to do
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Old 04-07-2012   #55
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Default Re: Texans Nightmare Pick

It's OK.

Basically the Texans first pick with exception of Andre Johnson in Casserly tenure were all nightmares IMO.

Rick Smith was hired as GM after the 2006 draft. So his tenure stretches from 07-2011 to date.

2007 Amobi Okoye - decent rookie season/all downhill from there/traded
2008 Duane Brown - hand picked by Gibbs/Rick Smith & Gary Kubiak let him build the OL into what it is today.
2009 Brian Cushing - terrific rookie year/down second season/plus year w/Phillips coaching
2010 Kareem Jackson - horrible rookie year/turnaround season once again because of Wade Phillips
2011 JJ Watt - Wade Phillips loved Watt as well as Aldon Smith (off the board) replaced Mario anyway & Williams would have had to play 5 tech instead of Watt but you know he couldn't ever stay healthy.

Rick Smith background is mostly secondary related while Kubiak is known as a guru of QB's. Honestly, Kubiak got off on the wrong foot in his own arena of strength which led to a couple unnecessarily painful seasons. Now I wouldn't mind if he just went ahead & handpicked a QB to develop every year, then start using them to trade up for higher picks.

Now should I add some color, change fonts & make my words bigger
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Old 04-07-2012   #56
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Default Re: Texans Nightmare Pick

In a very real sense, it doesn't matter who they pick. Well, unless it's a QB or a RB this year. LOL Until the player is on the field playing with da big boys, we don't know how good he is anyway.
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Old 04-07-2012   #57
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Default Re: Texans Nightmare Pick

Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
The only stellar draft in the Rick Smith era was last year & one could argue Wade Phillips was the heavy handed defensive guru that wanted JJ Watt & Brooks Reed. I will give him credit however as a good listener
Please be understanding when I tell you that 2009 was a far superior draft as of right now if we're going to go ahead and say that 2011 was "stellar". Hell 2010 so far was far superior in the middle rounds as well. Sharpton, Mitchell, Tate and McManis all contributed plenty.
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Old 04-07-2012   #58
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Default Re: Texans Nightmare Pick

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
It's OK.

Basically the Texans first pick with exception of Andre Johnson in Casserly tenure were all nightmares IMO.

Rick Smith was hired as GM after the 2006 draft. So his tenure stretches from 07-2011 to date.

2007 Amobi Okoye - decent rookie season/all downhill from there/traded
2008 Duane Brown - hand picked by Gibbs/Rick Smith & Gary Kubiak let him build the OL into what it is today.
2009 Brian Cushing - terrific rookie year/down second season/plus year w/Phillips coaching
2010 Kareem Jackson - horrible rookie year/turnaround season once again because of Wade Phillips
2011 JJ Watt - Wade Phillips loved Watt as well as Aldon Smith (off the board) replaced Mario anyway & Williams would have had to play 5 tech instead of Watt but you know he couldn't ever stay healthy.

Rick Smith background is mostly secondary related while Kubiak is known as a guru of QB's. Honestly, Kubiak got off on the wrong foot in his own arena of strength which led to a couple unnecessarily painful seasons. Now I wouldn't mind if he just went ahead & handpicked a QB to develop every year, then start using them to trade up for higher picks.

Now should I add some color, change fonts & make my words bigger
Right now I see not much reason to worry about whats going to happen in about 3 weeks, and so far, nobody here has posted anything even nearing convincing trying to get me to think otherwise. Smith and Kubiak do decent enough in the draft and treating them like they're Charley Casserly part deux is a little insulting.

Also, including only the first rounds is what's known as cherry picking. Lets see the whole thing:

2007
Further information: 2007 NFL Draft
Round/Pick Player Position College
1/10 (from Atlanta) Amobi Okoye Defensive tackle Louisville - bust
3/73 Jacoby Jones Wide receiver Lane - Starter much to the chagrin of many
4/123 (from New Orleans) Fred Bennett Cornerback South Carolina - out of the league
5/144 Brandon Harrison Safety Stanford - out of the league
5/163 (from New Orleans) Brandon Frye Offensive tackle Virginia Tech - OOL
6/183 Kasey Studdard Offensive guard Texas - still on the team?
7/218 Zac Diles Linebacker Kansas State - played well, left in FA
[edit] 2008
Further information: 2008 NFL Draft
Round/Pick Player Position College
1/26 (from Baltimore) Duane Brown Offensive tackle Virginia Tech - can't give smith credit here lol
3/79 Antwaun Molden Cornerback Eastern Kentucky - cut/plays for patriots
3/89 (from Baltimore) Steve Slaton Running back West Virginia - on the dolphins
4/118 Xavier Adibi Linebacker Virginia Tech - Minnesota?
5/151 Frank Okam Defensive tackle Texas - Was on Bucs in 2011
6/173 (from Baltimore) Dominique Barber Safety Minnesota - OOL
7/223 Alex Brink Quarterback Washington State - OOL
[edit] 2009
Further information: 2009 NFL Draft
Round/Pick Player Position College
1/15 Brian Cushing Linebacker Southern California - lol no credit here
2/46 Connor Barwin Defensive end Cincinnati - starter
3/77 Antoine Caldwell Center Alabama - incumbent starter
4/112 Glover Quin Cornerback New Mexico -starter
4/122 (from Minnesota) Anthony Hill Tight end North Carolina State - injured
5/152 James Casey Tight end Rice - starter
6/188 Brice McCain Cornerback Utah - nickel corner
7/223 Troy Nolan Safety Arizona State - reserve safety, actually halfway decent
[edit] 2010
Further information: 2010 NFL Draft
Round/Pick Player Position College
1/20 Kareem Jackson Cornerback Alabama
2/58 (from New England) Ben Tate Running back Auburn
3/81 Earl Mitchell Defensive tackle Arizona
4/102 (from Kansas City) Darryl Sharpton Linebacker Miami (FL)
4/118 Garrett Graham Tight end Wisconsin
5/144 (from Kansas City) Sherrick McManis Cornerback Northwestern
6/187 Shelley Smith Offensive guard Colorado State
6/197 (from San Diego) Trindon Holliday Wide receiver LSU
7/227 Dorin Dickerson Tight end Pittsburgh
[edit] 2011
Further information: 2011 NFL Draft
Round/Pick Player Position College
1/11 J. J. Watt Defensive End Wisconsin
2/42 Brooks Reed Linebacker Arizona
2/60 (from New England) Brandon Harris Cornerback Miami (FL)
4/127 (from Washington) Rashad Carmichael Cornerback Virginia Tech
5/144 (from Washington) Shiloh Keo Safety Idaho
5/152 (from Washington) T. J. Yates Quarterback North Carolina
7/214 Derek Newton Offensive tackle Arkansas State
7/254 Cheta Ozougwu Defensive end Rice

Pretty much you're wrong
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Old 04-08-2012   #59
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Default Re: Texans Nightmare Pick

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Me. I can't play football.
You kidding? I am a 32 year old with a 24 year on and off again relationship with cigs (keep trying to quit but I snap) so while I wouldn't be the BEST choice by far I wouldn't be the worst.

For that amount of money, plus my stubbornness PLUS my love of this team.

I would have the heart of Andre Johnson but on the field I would look more like Jimmy Johnson (the driver) where the only way I could go 100 yards fast is by car. ( Unless I can take breaks, gotta wheeze a bit)

Plus big guys wanting to hit me at full speed..... BIG motivator...... being able to leave a crappy job BIGGER motivator..... not being piled on by a bunch of dudes...... BIGGEST motivator.
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Old 04-08-2012   #60
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Default Re: Texans Nightmare Pick

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Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
Right now I see not much reason to worry about whats going to happen in about 3 weeks, and so far, nobody here has posted anything even nearing convincing trying to get me to think otherwise. Smith and Kubiak do decent enough in the draft and treating them like they're Charley Casserly part deux is a little insulting.

Also, including only the first rounds is what's known as cherry picking. Lets see the whole thing:

2007
Further information: 2007 NFL Draft
Round/Pick Player Position College
1/10 (from Atlanta) Amobi Okoye Defensive tackle Louisville - bust
3/73 Jacoby Jones Wide receiver Lane - Starter much to the chagrin of many
4/123 (from New Orleans) Fred Bennett Cornerback South Carolina - out of the league
5/144 Brandon Harrison Safety Stanford - out of the league
5/163 (from New Orleans) Brandon Frye Offensive tackle Virginia Tech - OOL
6/183 Kasey Studdard Offensive guard Texas - still on the team?
7/218 Zac Diles Linebacker Kansas State - played well, left in FA
[edit] 2008
Further information: 2008 NFL Draft
Round/Pick Player Position College
1/26 (from Baltimore) Duane Brown Offensive tackle Virginia Tech - can't give smith credit here lol
3/79 Antwaun Molden Cornerback Eastern Kentucky - cut/plays for patriots
3/89 (from Baltimore) Steve Slaton Running back West Virginia - on the dolphins
4/118 Xavier Adibi Linebacker Virginia Tech - Minnesota?
5/151 Frank Okam Defensive tackle Texas - Was on Bucs in 2011
6/173 (from Baltimore) Dominique Barber Safety Minnesota - OOL
7/223 Alex Brink Quarterback Washington State - OOL
[edit] 2009
Further information: 2009 NFL Draft
Round/Pick Player Position College
1/15 Brian Cushing Linebacker Southern California - lol no credit here
2/46 Connor Barwin Defensive end Cincinnati - starter
3/77 Antoine Caldwell Center Alabama - incumbent starter
4/112 Glover Quin Cornerback New Mexico -starter
4/122 (from Minnesota) Anthony Hill Tight end North Carolina State - injured
5/152 James Casey Tight end Rice - starter
6/188 Brice McCain Cornerback Utah - nickel corner
7/223 Troy Nolan Safety Arizona State - reserve safety, actually halfway decent
[edit] 2010
Further information: 2010 NFL Draft
Round/Pick Player Position College
1/20 Kareem Jackson Cornerback Alabama
2/58 (from New England) Ben Tate Running back Auburn
3/81 Earl Mitchell Defensive tackle Arizona
4/102 (from Kansas City) Darryl Sharpton Linebacker Miami (FL)
4/118 Garrett Graham Tight end Wisconsin
5/144 (from Kansas City) Sherrick McManis Cornerback Northwestern
6/187 Shelley Smith Offensive guard Colorado State
6/197 (from San Diego) Trindon Holliday Wide receiver LSU
7/227 Dorin Dickerson Tight end Pittsburgh
[edit] 2011
Further information: 2011 NFL Draft
Round/Pick Player Position College
1/11 J. J. Watt Defensive End Wisconsin
2/42 Brooks Reed Linebacker Arizona
2/60 (from New England) Brandon Harris Cornerback Miami (FL)
4/127 (from Washington) Rashad Carmichael Cornerback Virginia Tech
5/144 (from Washington) Shiloh Keo Safety Idaho
5/152 (from Washington) T. J. Yates Quarterback North Carolina
7/214 Derek Newton Offensive tackle Arkansas State
7/254 Cheta Ozougwu Defensive end Rice

Pretty much you're wrong
Too many b0ng hits I guess, your still missing the point. Best Texans could do with all this talent assembled in 2010 was go 6-10. Then in steps Wade Phillips who not only put together the defensive puzzle, that had so eluded this organization, he identified the players in both Free Agency & the Draft who fit the system he wanted to implement.
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2012 Draft was Mercilus
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