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Old 04-06-2012   #21
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Default Re: Bob McNair Speaks

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Originally Posted by Yankee_In_TX View Post
I think most fans want 2 questions answered:

1. Why did we not trade Winston or Brisel? (all legit speculative answers I have heard involve the F.O. kind of dropping the ball)

2. Why did we not front load deals in the uncapped year like many other teams did t avoid where we are today?


I don't think anyone is saying doom and gloom because those guys are gone. They are saying 'I don't think our FO did this in a smart way.'
Winston, not Brisel.
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Old 04-06-2012   #22
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Default Re: Bob McNair Speaks

The team will never be able to keep every player, and we the fans will never be sastified with the results that come out of that. That's just how it is.
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Old 04-06-2012   #23
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Default Re: Bob McNair Speaks

Why did Bob speak? Did he see another Ox in the ditch??
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Old 04-06-2012   #24
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Default Re: Bob McNair Speaks

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
Why did Bob speak? Did he see another Ox in the ditch??
No, just a ghost in the machine.
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Old 04-06-2012   #25
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Default Re: Bob McNair Speaks

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
Why did Bob speak? Did he see another Ox in the ditch??
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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
No, just a ghost in the machine.
What th'....?

I know what both phrases usually mean but what the hell are you two on about?
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Old 04-06-2012   #26
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Default Re: Bob McNair Speaks

We're a touchy bunch, aren't we?
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Old 04-06-2012   #27
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Default Re: Bob McNair Speaks

Well Bob if you would tell us about your plan, give good cap info and step up when you make significant roster changes and tell us why immediately; we just might support you more. Reminds me of daddy saying "you know I love you and I will make the best decisions for you." except Mr. McNair you seem to be saying "I love your money and I will make the best decision for me because really, what else are you gonna do on Sundays?"
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Old 04-06-2012   #28
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Default Re: Bob McNair Speaks

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
What th'....?

I know what both phrases usually mean but what the hell are you two on about?
LMFAO!!! Bob said in a telephone interview... "It's not the first time I've seen an ox in a ditch" when discussing a disappointing season a couple of years ago.
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Old 04-10-2012   #29
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Default Re: Bob McNair Speaks

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Well Bob if you would tell us about your plan, give good cap info and step up when you make significant roster changes and tell us why immediately; we just might support you more. Reminds me of daddy saying "you know I love you and I will make the best decisions for you." except Mr. McNair you seem to be saying "I love your money and I will make the best decision for me because really, what else are you gonna do on Sundays?"
I know from the armchair GM perspective people want detailed, accurate knowledge of their teams cap situation, its only natural. Its in the teams best interest however to keep that as secret as possible because when they're negotiating their deals in FA, and some guy wants 500k extra per year because their agent has accurate cap information for the team, and hey, we know you can afford it, suddenly the team is in a worse bargaining position.

What would you prefer? To have them tell us all the cap info so that we can endlessly talk all offseason about what we'd do with all that money, at the cost of having to pay players a bit extra to the effect of not being able to get as many quality guys in. Or let them keep their cards close to their chest and offer players what they're worth telling them its the best they could possibly come up with?

Compared to 12 months ago, I think we go into this draft with a stronger talent pool already on the team than we did then, and therefore we're drafting from our strongest position of all time.

We've lost Brisiel, Winston, DeMeco, and Williams, but we've gained JoJo, Manning, Watt, Reed, whilst Barwin, Cushing, Tate, Quin all look significantly more valuable than they did 12 months ago.

I'm fully behind Bob's plan right now, and frankly, if I'm proven wrong, I'll have spent 6 months less pissed off about it than anyone who's pissed off already, so its win-win for me.
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Old 04-10-2012   #30
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Default Re: Bob McNair Speaks

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Originally Posted by welsh texan View Post
I know from the armchair GM perspective people want detailed, accurate knowledge of their teams cap situation, its only natural. Its in the teams best interest however to keep that as secret as possible because when they're negotiating their deals in FA, and some guy wants 500k extra per year because their agent has accurate cap information for the team, and hey, we know you can afford it, suddenly the team is in a worse bargaining position.

What would you prefer? To have them tell us all the cap info so that we can endlessly talk all offseason about what we'd do with all that money, at the cost of having to pay players a bit extra to the effect of not being able to get as many quality guys in. Or let them keep their cards close to their chest and offer players what they're worth telling them its the best they could possibly come up with?

Compared to 12 months ago, I think we go into this draft with a stronger talent pool already on the team than we did then, and therefore we're drafting from our strongest position of all time.

We've lost Brisiel, Winston, DeMeco, and Williams, but we've gained JoJo, Manning, Watt, Reed, whilst Barwin, Cushing, Tate, Quin all look significantly more valuable than they did 12 months ago.

I'm fully behind Bob's plan right now, and frankly, if I'm proven wrong, I'll have spent 6 months less pissed off about it than anyone who's pissed off already, so its win-win for me.
Rep your way.

We are the defending AFC South champs. We need to be excited about that and see the positives.

Every team has something wrong with it: Some teams have zero talent, so they're grabbing guys in FA and drafting in the top 10 of the draft. Some teams have mediocre talent and could make bad moves or good moves, which would make them better or worse depending on the moves made. And some teams are coming off great years (such as ours) but are having to battle the inherent problems with success--Players want more money than what can be paid to them.

So therefore, every team has its own "problems" to overcome. I'd rather have our kind of problems than the problems a team like the Colts have. Outside of drafting Andrew Luck, they got zilch. OK, maybe Reggie Wayne. They're switching to a 3-4 and they have nobody on the nose in that 3-4 scheme. They are going to have to draft virtually "for need" all draft long. They lost their center, Jeff Saturday. No run game to speak of. Defense in flux. New head coach, and new GM. It's not impossible for them to succeed, but their problems are greater than ours...big time!
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Old 04-10-2012   #31
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Default Re: Bob McNair Speaks

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It's funny now that the Texans are having big boy problems for like the first time ever, most of the "fans" we have immediately go to a doom and gloom mode because you know, we lost Eric Winston, and Mike Brisel, and Mario Williams. Not Brian Cushing, not Arian Foster, not Chris Myers, not Andre Johnson, no the reason we are going into the toilet this year is because we lost a guy we basically didn't have last year, a RT whom most on here called "overrated", a guy who came out on 3rd downs, and an actual good guard. We lose 2 guys out of 4 that probably receive the most negative attention on this board, yet most of the people who were complaining about them are now saying we are screwed.
I'm not to "doom and gloom" yet, but very serious concern about sums it up.

Let's think about this. Last season, what were the team's two biggest strengths?

1) Offensive Line - Arguably one of the best in football. What do we do this offseason? We lose the entire right-hand side of the line. Hell, we just CUT Winston outright, and we didn't make much of a play for Briesel. I think it's fair to be really, REALLY concerned about our O-Line (which took awhile to "gel" in the first place). Expect to see one of these two guys to be in next year's Pro Bowl.

2) Defense - The defense took to Wade's new scheme with a vengeance. We lost Mario (on his best sack pace ever) early on and had to get Brooks Reed up to speed. We couldn't compete for Mario, he was "known to be gone". We've now traded Demeco who was a shell of his normal self until late last season when he rounded back into form. At least we got something in exchange, though it wasn't much. Expect to see BOTH of these guys back in the Pro Bowl.

We've lost some guys who were at /near the top of their game. Other than Mario, exactly who were we "expecting" to lose? I fully understand that most (if not all) of these moves were made more for the benefit of NEXT year's cap vs. helping any THIS year.

The question is, did we torpedo this season to get to where we wanted to be cap-wise for next year? I'm not sure we have, but I'm not exactly reassured by teh losses either.
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Old 04-10-2012   #32
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Default Re: Bob McNair Speaks

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I'm not to "doom and gloom" yet, but very serious concern about sums it up.

Let's think about this. Last season, what were the team's two biggest strengths?

1) Offensive Line - Arguably one of the best in football. What do we do this offseason? We lose the entire right-hand side of the line. Hell, we just CUT Winston outright, and we didn't make much of a play for Briesel. I think it's fair to be really, REALLY concerned about our O-Line (which took awhile to "gel" in the first place). Expect to see one of these two guys to be in next year's Pro Bowl.

2) Defense - The defense took to Wade's new scheme with a vengeance. We lost Mario (on his best sack pace ever) early on and had to get Brooks Reed up to speed. We couldn't compete for Mario, he was "known to be gone". We've now traded Demeco who was a shell of his normal self until late last season when he rounded back into form. At least we got something in exchange, though it wasn't much. Expect to see BOTH of these guys back in the Pro Bowl.

We've lost some guys who were at /near the top of their game. Other than Mario, exactly who were we "expecting" to lose? I fully understand that most (if not all) of these moves were made more for the benefit of NEXT year's cap vs. helping any THIS year.

The question is, did we torpedo this season to get to where we wanted to be cap-wise for next year? I'm not sure we have, but I'm not exactly reassured by teh losses either.
You are saying Briesel and Winston are going to make the Pro Bowl playing for the Raiders and the Chiefs? I don't see it, dissacks. I just don't.

Winston and Brisiel blocked for Arian Foster/Ben Tate/Derrick Ward and had the league's number 2 defense helping them out in 2011. It's Big Boy time for Winston and Brisiel now. If they make the Pro Bowl, then they sure as hell will have earned it by playing for two pretty bad teams in the Raiders/Chiefs.

So your first argument about how you're not doom-and-gloom, just merely "concerned," is that we lost two Pro Bowl OL players.

Your next argument is that the defensive guys we lost are going to make the Pro Bowl too. First of all, Mario has to finish a freaking season or he isn't going to get votes. Voters won't care if Mario "was on pace for ___ sacks" but was also in and out of the lineup throughout the year. You have to be on the TV cameras week in and week out or you're forgotten. And Ryans as a Pro Bowler? He was on the league's best defense last year and didn't get voted. Wasn't even an alternate, IIRC.

Sounds like you're more than just "concerned" to me. You've laid out how we lost four Pro Bowl players...for Pro Bowls that haven't even happened yet.
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Old 04-10-2012   #33
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What do Arian Foster, Ben Tate, Derrick Ward have in common?

A) They are great/very good runners no matter who is blocking.
B) They were great/very good runners behind a great run blocking line last year.

I suspect if the Texans had kept the oline and lost Foster and/or Tate I'd be reading that their loss is OK, they were just a "product of the system" and the team would be fine because it was the line that counts.

For years I've read that running backs were plug and play commodities in the Kubiak system. Now it seems the athletic zone blocking lineman are the replaceable ones.

I think there is ample reason to be concerned about the running game next year without being branded a doom and gloomer.
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Old 04-10-2012   #34
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Default Re: Bob McNair Speaks

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Originally Posted by disaacks3 View Post
I'm not to "doom and gloom" yet, but very serious concern about sums it up.

Let's think about this. Last season, what were the team's two biggest strengths?

1) Offensive Line - Arguably one of the best in football. What do we do this offseason? We lose the entire right-hand side of the line. Hell, we just CUT Winston outright, and we didn't make much of a play for Briesel. I think it's fair to be really, REALLY concerned about our O-Line (which took awhile to "gel" in the first place). Expect to see one of these two guys to be in next year's Pro Bowl.

2) Defense - The defense took to Wade's new scheme with a vengeance. We lost Mario (on his best sack pace ever) early on and had to get Brooks Reed up to speed. We couldn't compete for Mario, he was "known to be gone". We've now traded Demeco who was a shell of his normal self until late last season when he rounded back into form. At least we got something in exchange, though it wasn't much. Expect to see BOTH of these guys back in the Pro Bowl.

We've lost some guys who were at /near the top of their game. Other than Mario, exactly who were we "expecting" to lose? I fully understand that most (if not all) of these moves were made more for the benefit of NEXT year's cap vs. helping any THIS year.

The question is, did we torpedo this season to get to where we wanted to be cap-wise for next year? I'm not sure we have, but I'm not exactly reassured by teh losses either.



So you think out of Demeco, Winston, Briesel, and Mario 3-4 will be in next years probowl?


I don't see that. I wouldn't be surprised at all if none of them made it.
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Old 04-10-2012   #35
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Default Re: Bob McNair Speaks

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Originally Posted by Runner View Post
What do Arian Foster, Ben Tate, Derrick Ward have in common?

A) They are great/very good runners no matter who is blocking.
B) They were great/very good runners behind a great run blocking line last year.

I suspect if the Texans had kept the oline and lost Foster and/or Tate I'd be reading that their loss is OK, they were just a "product of the system" and the team would be fine because it was the line that counts.

For years I've read that running backs were plug and play commodities in the Kubiak system. Now it seems the athletic zone blocking lineman are the replaceable ones.

I think there is ample reason to be concerned about the running game next year without being branded a doom and gloomer.
Probably depends on who you talk to because personally I've maintained (and a few others I've read) that Foster is what makes the running game tick and he is a special back.

Does that mean the line is worthless? No, it doesn't. What it means is that they work in unison together, but Foster makes it special.

If we had lost Foster I think it would have been a huge blow, but I think Tate is talented in his own right, so we would have still been a good running team.

But even though football is a team sport and it takes all the players to be successful, you can still look at individual performance and determine how much the team benefits from them and vice versa.
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Old 04-10-2012   #36
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Default Re: Bob McNair Speaks

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I think there is ample reason to be concerned about the running game next year without being branded a doom and gloomer.
Well, if you doom and gloomers wouldn't call the rest of us homers or sunshiners, maybe you'd get cut a little slack.

As it is right now, there isn't any middle ground, so you can sleep in the beds you've made.

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Old 04-10-2012   #37
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You are saying Briesel and Winston are going to make the Pro Bowl playing for the Raiders and the Chiefs? I don't see it, dissacks. I just don't.

Good for you. For the record, I said one of them...I stand by that.

Winston and Brisiel blocked for Arian Foster/Ben Tate/Derrick Ward and had the league's number 2 defense helping them out in 2011. It's Big Boy time for Winston and Brisiel now. If they make the Pro Bowl, then they sure as hell will have earned it by playing for two pretty bad teams in the Raiders/Chiefs.

Exactly how did that defense help them block, I'm truly interested.

So your first argument about how you're not doom-and-gloom, just merely "concerned," is that we lost two Pro Bowl OL players.

Your next argument is that the defensive guys we lost are going to make the Pro Bowl too. First of all, Mario has to finish a freaking season or he isn't going to get votes. Voters won't care if Mario "was on pace for ___ sacks" but was also in and out of the lineup throughout the year. You have to be on the TV cameras week in and week out or you're forgotten. And Ryans as a Pro Bowler? He was on the league's best defense last year and didn't get voted. Wasn't even an alternate, IIRC.

Wow, so you think if Mario wasn't injured last year, he wouldn't make the Pro Bowl...good luck with that. Demeco was a Pro Bowler previously, and was recovering from an injury until late in teh season (maybe you noticed the cast?)

Sounds like you're more than just "concerned" to me. You've laid out how we lost four Pro Bowl players...for Pro Bowls that haven't even happened yet.

Alright, how many of those guys have been to a Pro Bowl...count them and call me back.
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So you think out of Demeco, Winston, Briesel, and Mario 3-4 will be in next years probowl?


I don't see that. I wouldn't be surprised at all if none of them made it.

Actually, I didn't say NEXT year's Pro Bowl, but the point still stands. Where are these guys' replacements that can play at/above their level? They sure as hell aren't currently on the Texans roster.
Responses in BOLD. What Bob is doing is called "sunshine pumping". While he may be right, comparing the Texans organization to the Patriots organization is self-congratulatory on his part to a rather extreme level. When we make the playoffs 7 of 10 years in a row, then I might buy in. As it stands now, Bob is spinning a bad story the best way he can.
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Old 04-10-2012   #38
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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
Well, if you doom and gloomers wouldn't call the rest of us homers or sunshiners, maybe you'd get cut a little slack.

As it is right now, there isn't any middle ground, so you can sleep in the beds you've made.

Exactly. Well, not exactly. Change the "you've" to "we've" and the comment would be spot on.
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Old 04-10-2012   #39
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Default Re: Bob McNair Speaks

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I think there is ample reason to be concerned about the running game next year without being branded a doom and gloomer.
You know what concerns me about our running game next year? It isn't that we lost 2 solid players who were paid more than we could possibly afford, who's replacements will be chosen between a couple of guys with years in the system + solid starting experience or a couple of rookies/less experienced guys who'll have to beat them out if they want to play.

The key is going to be can Schaub and AJ return to where they were before they got injured.

Because if we're playing with Yates/a hobbled Schaub, and the AJ we saw in the playoffs (great effort but clearly not himself) then we're going to be getting 8 guys stacking the box all season long, shutting down our running game no matter who we have in there, and be forced to throw it up to AJ regardless of how well covered he is late in the game.

We rely on the threat of our play action and bootlegs to open up the running game, if we can't establish that threat then everything else becomes so much more difficult in our system.
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Old 04-10-2012   #40
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Default Re: Bob McNair Speaks

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What do Arian Foster, Ben Tate, Derrick Ward have in common?

A) They are great/very good runners no matter who is blocking.
B) They were great/very good runners behind a great run blocking line last year.

I suspect if the Texans had kept the oline and lost Foster and/or Tate I'd be reading that their loss is OK, they were just a "product of the system" and the team would be fine because it was the line that counts.

For years I've read that running backs were plug and play commodities in the Kubiak system. Now it seems the athletic zone blocking lineman are the replaceable ones.

I think there is ample reason to be concerned about the running game next year without being branded a doom and gloomer.
It also doesn't mean that Winston and Brisiel are going to be Pro Bowl OL this year, either. It's possible that other guys could do their jobs.

The RBs also were NOT very good at running when Caldwell replaced Brisiel at RG. So the theory that the RBs are gods among mere mortals is a myth. And I don't think the RG spot is Caldwell's just yet. Draft, other OL already on our roster, and other avenues (during camp) can mean Caldwell is not our RG when the season begins.

All in all, we just have to wait and see. But yeah, the woe-is-me attitude is a bit premature. I blame this on lack of substantial football activity...once the pads and helmets are cracking, clouds will lift and the sun will shine. Birds will chirp. We'll have more substantive things to discuss instead of this retread topic. Happens every time.

Right now, people are just "concerned" with no way of knowing if their concerns are valid or not.
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