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Old 04-05-2012   #1
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Default Williams: Kill the head and the body will die

Woa. Glad he didn't come here....

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/77...o-49ers-speech

Quote:
On the day that members of the Saints' brass will have their appeals heard for their roles in New Orleans' bounty system, damning audio has been released of Gregg Williams, the man who orchestrated the program, instructing his players to injure San Francisco 49ers players in their wild-card playoff game last season.

Williams can be heard in the audio recording instructing his defensive players to injure quarterback Alex Smith, running back Frank Gore, tight end Vernon Davis and receivers Michael Crabtree and Kyle Williams.

According to Pamphilon, Gregg Williams pointed to his chin while telling his players to hit Niners quarterback Alex Smith "right there" and says "Remember me. I got the first one. I got the first one. Go get it. Go lay that m----------- out."

Williams uses one of his favorite slogans in the speech: "Kill the head and the body will die."

On Gore: "We've got to do everything in the world to make sure we kill Frank Gore's head. We want him running sideways. We want his head sideways."

On fullback Kendall Hunter: "Little 32, we're going to knock the f--- out of him."

On Smith: "Every single one of you, before you get off the pile, affect the head. Early, affect the head. Continue, touch and hit the head."

On Kyle Williams: "We need to find out in the first two series of the game, that little wide receiver, No. 10, about his concussion. We need to f------ put a lick on him right now. He needs to decide. He needs to f------ decide."

On Crabtree: "We need to decide whether Crabtree wants to be a fake-ass prima donna, or he wants to be a tough guy. We need to find out. He becomes human when we f------ take out that outside ACL."

On Davis: "We need to decide how many times we can bull rush and and we can f------ put Vernon Davis' ankles over the pile."
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Old 04-05-2012   #2
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Default Re: Williams: Kill the head and the body will die

If he does coach again...

Someones going to run into him Sean Peyton style.

Cept its going to be on purpose, hard as hell, and without punishment.
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Old 04-05-2012   #3
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Default Re: Williams: Kill the head and the body will die

Any questions about if his indefinite suspension, if it was too harsh or what not...well, I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a solid 2 or 3-year ban. Maybe even a permanent ban.

This stuff he's saying...it's more than just a fiery pre game speech. He's directing, in very clear language, the players to hurt and target areas of other players. It goes against the spirit of the game.

Want to say "Go after the football, rip at his hands and get the football out. Pull and yank on the arms and pry the football out!" then I'm fine with that. But when you tell people to go after ACL's, ankles, and heads...that's horrific.
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Old 04-05-2012   #4
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Default Re: Williams: Kill the head and the body will die

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
Any questions about if his indefinite suspension, if it was too harsh or what not...well, I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a solid 2 or 3-year ban. Maybe even a permanent ban.

This stuff he's saying...it's more than just a fiery pre game speech. He's directing, in very clear language, the players to hurt and target areas of other players. It goes against the spirit of the game.

Want to say "Go after the football, rip at his hands and get the football out. Pull and yank on the arms and pry the football out!" then I'm fine with that. But when you tell people to go after ACL's, ankles, and heads...that's horrific.
I agree 100% man.
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Old 04-05-2012   #5
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Default Re: Williams: Kill the head and the body will die

What's an "outside ACL"? lol
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Old 04-05-2012   #6
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Default Re: Williams: Kill the head and the body will die

Quote:
On Kyle Williams: "We need to find out in the first two series of the game, that little wide receiver, No. 10, about his concussion. We need to f------ put a lick on him right now. He needs to decide. He needs to f------ decide."
sounds a lot like what the Giants said, too - following their win in large part due to Williams's fumble

http://www.masslive.com/patriots/ind...ns_giants.html

Quote:
After muffing one punt and fumbling a second in an overtime loss last weekend, San Francisco's Kyle Williams was subjected to an all-too-predictable barrage of Twitter hate and several death threats. Compared to that, what two members of the winning New York Giants recklessly boasted about after the game sounded almost tame.

Almost.

"The thing is, we knew he had four concussions, so that was our biggest thing, was to take him outta the game," said Jacquian Williams, who forced the second fumble, in overtime, to set up New York's game-winning field goal.

"He's had a lot of concussions," said Devin Thomas, who recovered both fumbles. "We were just like, 'We gotta put a hit on that guy.'" Later in the same interview, he told the Newark Star-Ledger that teammate and backup safety Tyler Sash "did a great job hitting him early and he looked kind of dazed when he got up. I feel like that made a difference and he coughed it up."

That the Giants targeted a vulnerable opponent like Kyle Williams hardly qualifies as news, nor even that they zeroed in on his head. Those tactics, despite all the attention advancing science has focused on the dangers of concussions, were part of football long before helmets became mandatory. More troubling, but hardly news, either, is the implication that it was part of the Giants' game plan, something that was discussed in the film room or a special-teams meeting among the players, with or without input of the blessing of the coaching staff. It wouldn't be the first time that happened, either.

No, the surprising thing is that Thomas and Jacquian Williams came right out and said it.
edit: just to clarify, I'm not condoning either. And I am glad that Williams is gone.
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Old 04-05-2012   #7
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Default Re: Williams: Kill the head and the body will die

AND some of you think Sean Payton is innocent?? That his sentence is to "harsh!!?" SURE, and the sun refuses to come up in the morning!!! That entire coaching staff should be penalized! There is no way in hell they didn't know what he was doing!!
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Old 04-05-2012   #8
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Default Re: Williams: Kill the head and the body will die

What is the context of this? Was this the coach firing up his players before the game or was he game planning?
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Old 04-05-2012   #9
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Default Re: Williams: Kill the head and the body will die

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Originally Posted by Stemp View Post
What is the context of this? Was this the coach firing up his players before the game or was he game planning?
It was a pre-game speech he made to the players the night before the playoff game vs. the 49ers.

He is directing them to target specific areas of certain players, in an attempt to take those players out of the game.

In my mind, there is a difference between a player deciding to do those things on his own (of his own accord) compared to a coach--an authority figure who has the power to bench you or promote you, etc.--directing a player to do those things.

I think we all know that players can do things on their own--you cannot control the person and his motives--but the idea that a "more mature" person, a coach in this situation, is provoking and encouraging such behavior is the focus of the punishments.

I can see how the Saints will argue that although Williams was "suggesting" that they target players and their specific injury-prone areas, there is no proof that any Saints defensive player did, indeed, try to do so on the field of play. To that extent, I think the Saints lawyers might be able to (a) get the players off the hook, and maybe even (b) get the draft pick punishment scaled back a bit, claiming that the team--the PLAYERS on the roster--should not be punished for the provoking nature of the coach(es).

I think Williams is screwed no matter what happens, and he knows it and everyone on God's green earth knows it, but there might be a way to scale back the other punishments if the Saints lawyers can say "Look, there's no way to prove that the players actually carried out the coach's wishes." To that extent, I think Goodell will need to seriously consider JUST punishing the coaches and the GM, as well as fining the team. I think that the punishments involving players and maybe even draft picks can be arguably scaled back.

But you know what? I think Goodell is so pissed off about this, especially with the way gobs of former players are suing the NFL for head injuries, that he's going to say "Eff you. Eff you ALL. The ruling stands, get the hell out of my office and I don't want to EVER see or hear of these sorts of things from any of you ever again." Goodell is no joke when it comes to penalizing ANYBODY. He is for real. Homie ain't playin'.

I'm just thinking there MIGHT be wiggle room, but won't be surprised if the punishments stand in their totality.
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Old 04-05-2012   #10
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Default Re: Williams: Kill the head and the body will die

He shouldn't be going after ankles and stuff...

And with how the rules are and what we know about concussions he should be preaching about head shots...

That's just dirty.


But I've heard some of that from coaches before. I've never heard one say go after an ACL or any shyt like that, but "knock them out", "bang him in the head", "punch him in the gut"...yeah....
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Old 04-05-2012   #11
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Default Re: Williams: Kill the head and the body will die

I'm torn on this...... On one hand I see a coach who's looking to inspire his players to play passionately and be physical. On the other hand, he's crossing the line when he talks about hitting players to physically injuure them. At one point in the youtube audio it shows where tells his players to hit Alex Smith in the chin, and that he has the first one (Meaning fine or bounty payment). He's basically laughing in the face of the NFL even after they were notified of the second investigation.

There's a very fine line in football between being physical and being dirty. Hell, sometimes being dirty isn't even a bad thing as long as its done within the rules. To be dirty though to the point where you're putting guys careers in jeopardy for your personal gratification is way too much. These guys have families and a shortened time to make as much money as possible to provide for them. The thought that a coach would intentionally tell players to go out and try to "injure" a guy sickens me. You want to make guys "hurt" anytime you're on defense because you want to inflict pain. But to purposely try to injure a guy is out of line.
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Old 04-05-2012   #12
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Default Re: Williams: Kill the head and the body will die

What if players on a team got together and said, "OK, I got $5,000 for the guy on our team who takes out Sean Payton. Just roll through him when he's on the sideline and take out his knee."

I wonder if Sean Payton would care for that or not. What happened to him was an accident, but what if it had been ordered by an opposing team's coach or player(s)??? That's what the Saints were trying to accomplish: The specific, encouraged/provoked targeting of game-ending and even season-ending or career-ending injuries on opposing players. Makes me sick.

Gregg Williams, IMO, seems like he's a chicken schit guy. Goodell should ban him for life JUST to keep Gregg Williams off the sideline so that a player doesn't take him out some day. It's for Williams' own safety. When you live by the word, you die by that same sword. It's how it is.
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Old 04-05-2012   #13
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Default Re: Williams: Kill the head and the body will die

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Old 04-05-2012   #14
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Default Re: Williams: Kill the head and the body will die

Fixed it for ya'.....

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Old 04-05-2012   #15
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Default Re: Williams: Kill the head and the body will die

Awesome!

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to GP again."

Requesting permission to spread around the internet.
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Old 04-05-2012   #16
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Default Re: Williams: Kill the head and the body will die

*

*This has been a Saints PAID Public Announcement
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Old 04-05-2012   #17
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Default Re: Williams: Kill the head and the body will die

Wait, you mean it's not okay to pay people to tear an ACL? I wonder what kind of a bonus Jarred Allen made from those consecutive hits to Schaub's knee.

The NFL must have had a plant inside the Saints locker room, which means this investigation has been going on for some time.
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Old 04-05-2012   #18
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Default Re: Williams: Kill the head and the body will die

I thought he was giving out zombie advice...

Playing dirty is just a way to cover up a lack of talent. That goes from 4 year olds playing tackle basketball to grown men completely removing the spirit of competition out of professional sport. Everybody knows it.

I'd rather spend my time making my personnel perform better than drawing up bounty charts.

I think the Gooddell hate is pretty unwarranted. On one hand people want him to take care of players from the past and on the other, people don't want to see the commissioner punishing people for disrespecting the game, the league and themselves by injuring each other purposefully. Frankly, he's done Williams a monumental favor by limiting the suspension to "indefinitely" and not "completely and utterly"
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Old 04-05-2012   #19
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Default Re: Williams: Kill the head and the body will die

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Originally Posted by TimeKiller View Post
I thought he was giving out zombie advice...

Playing dirty is just a way to cover up a lack of talent. That goes from 4 year olds playing tackle basketball to grown men completely removing the spirit of competition out of professional sport. Everybody knows it.

I'd rather spend my time making my personnel perform better than drawing up bounty charts.

I think the Gooddell hate is pretty unwarranted. On one hand people want him to take care of players from the past and on the other, people don't want to see the commissioner punishing people for disrespecting the game, the league and themselves by injuring each other purposefully. Frankly, he's done Williams a monumental favor by limiting the suspension to "indefinitely" and not "completely and utterly"
Good post TK. Nothing overly harsh at all about the penalties they've imposed so far. I also agree with your comments on why people play dirty.
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Old 04-05-2012   #20
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Default Re: Williams: Kill the head and the body will die

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Originally Posted by Brisco_County View Post
The NFL must have had a plant inside the Saints locker room
no - as an fyi

the source audio came from the work of Sean Pamphilon, a filmmaker/documentarian who'd worked on a Saints/Ricky Williams documentary for an ESPN 30-for-30 production

he crossed paths with Steve Gleason - former Saint and local hero (for his punt block on Dome re-opening) and current sufferer from ALS. He was making a documentary about the inspiring, courageous story of one of the most likeable Saints' in recent memory.

You can see his esteem for Gleason brandished on his twitter page:

https://twitter.com/#!/seanpamphilon

He was in the locker room while Greg gave this speech as a guest of Gleason's.

Apparently Gleason is supposed to be making a comment today, about expecting these tapes to remain private. At least one Saints beat writer apparently believes the Saints might've had knowledge of the leak and played a part in its orchestration #tinfoil. As part of a move to distance themselves from Williams who was specifically directed by Payton and Loomis to make sure that he wasn't up to his old tricks - and that he refused to comply in the speech he delievered (which Payton and Loomise were not present for, as Pamphilon also pointed out). From Schefter:

Quote:
Sources close to Saints said Sean Payton and Mickey Loomis directed Gregg Williams to ensure no inappropriate conduct would occur.
And then there are some - like Jenkins - have already accused Pamphilon for taking advantage of Gleason.

Things only get increasingly bizarre.

This makes me wonder, though. This type of talk or sentiment isn't just Williams (although I don't doubt he might be the worst offender) - it's happening in other locker rooms. So do we bug or put plants in locker rooms all over the NFL? How is this going to be policed going forward?

Then there's the issue of intent and actual harm committed. In that 9ers game, the worst hit was suffered by Pierre Thomas - leading to his being taken off the field, not to return and a turnover at the SF goal line. AN important play for that game, no doubt. And the 49ers celebrated the injury at the time, just as the Giants celebrated the successful targeting of Kyle Williams.

And Pamphilon said about that game:

Quote:
Pamphilon, who watched the Saints-49ers game from the New Orleans sidelines, said he doesn’t believe Williams’ speech translated into any actual harm to San Francisco players.

“I was two feet behind the Saints’ bench,” he said, “and it looked like they were trying to kill each other every play. But I’ve watched about 15 NFL games from the sidelines, and I didn’t see anything different in that game than I’ve seen in any other football game. To me, they’re all trying to separate guys from the ball and all trying to get big hits that land them on ‘SportsCenter’ – on every play.”
:backtolurking:
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