What exactly did DD do to the offense???

[HoustonTexans4Life]

Originally Posted by Fiddy

I can agree with the first part of your first sentence, but DD did take away from the WRs. I do agree that the Carr's injury did have a lot.

Tony Banks was not conservative last year and did not limit the WRs, the WRs had some of their best games with Banks at the QB. He was our best QB last year.

Well that seems to be the way it goes ,,,you have good running teams and you dont hear much from their recievers ,,,or viceversa ! Like the broncos w/ clinton portis ,,,,and the ravens w/ Jamal Lewis ! I think since whe have a solid ground game and a well rounded set of recievers its up to the coaches to decide the pass/run differentia. Dont blame DD he dont call the plays. (He just makes the big ones)

[Fiddy]

Originally Posted by HoustonTexans4Life

Well that seems to be the way it goes ,,,you have good running teams and you dont hear much from their recievers ,,,or viceversa ! Like the broncos w/ clinton portis ,,,,and the ravens w/ Jamal Lewis ! I think since whe have a solid ground game and a well rounded set of recievers its up to the coaches to decide the pass/run differentia. Dont blame DD he dont call the plays. (He just makes the big ones)

The difference between playing a ball control offense with DD/Portis/Lewis is that Portis and Lewis broke 50 yard TD runs. DD had one 50 yard run, and it wasnt for a TD. Portis and Lewis were a threats to take a long one to the house everyday, DD wasnt a threat to break a long one.

Also, the Ravens had a rookie QB in that got hurt and the Broncos had to go to their 3rd string QB...

[Speedy]

Originally Posted by El Tejano

I do think this was a very good post and probably one of the best in a long time because it allows us to put so much analogy to it.

I wouldn't say that these stats aren't correct but I would say they don't reflect what the season was really like. While taking the first five games before Davis started and comparing them to the last eleven when he did start I think it is important to take the games themselves into consideration.

Miami- we had to start passing to get back in the game, where a Carr to Bradford 78 yard catch and run helped get us back in it but the dump passes to DD (I knew he was special when he ran over Zach Thomas) is what helped us get the game winning FG.

New Orleans-Injuries to our defensive line allowed the Saints to get a big lead on us and we had to pass to try and get back in the game.

K.C- We turned over the ball too much and we had to pass to get back into that game and Carr was pulled from the game to avoid injury to him.

Jville- This was a little different. Carr had a great first half, and he and Johnson looked good in the 4th quarter. A lousy halfback pass call and a lousty 3rd quarter ruined our chances of winning this one early.

@Tenn-Matt Stephens forced us to have to come from behind and pretty much throw in the second half, and Tenn defense was forcing Carr to get rid of it fast.

Also we played Indy twice after those five games and they have a pretty good cover 2 defense that allows the dump off and we had to exploit their weak run defense.

Then you have to look at how Davis did the last two games of the season. He showed up in those games against Tenn and Indy, and he was the reason we won against Atlanta and Carolina.

We can also put it like this. Our 3rd down conversion % was a whole lot better once we started Davis and as the season progressed.

What exactly did DD do to our ofense?? The last sentence in that quote. "Our 3rd down conversion % was a whole lot better once we started Davis and as the season progressed" That's huge for an offense. As someone mentioned, numbers don't tell the whole story. You have to look at each game and situation. You're going to pass more when you're behind even with a 1,500 yard back. But the converting 3rd downs, which we were horrible at in year one, plays a BIG part in a successful offense, IMO.

[Fiddy]

Now is the best time as ever to bring this thread back up....

Originally Posted by HoustonTexans4Life

To think DD hurt or offense in any kind of way is a little strange but to think he took away from the recievers is even more nuts (no offense) ! Yeah or recievers might of had more yards and catches before DD took the starting job at running back but Carr's injuries had alot to do with it ! I Mean look at all or last few games where we had most all or starting offense we had over 20 points in a lot of those games ,,,,its or defense that couldnt stop the other team ! i think DD helped us alot and w/ a more productive defense we would of won alot more games ! and about the recievers Tony banks is a good quarter back but he is alittle bit conservative and that also limits recievers catches and yards, while carr was injured . I might be crazy but i think Davis is exactly what or offense needed .

does it seem strange now???

[DominatorDavis]

4 fumles in 2 games. Eegghh, not good double D.

[TheOgre]

I think our offense if fine as is EXCEPT the turnovers. I'm more concerned with DD's fumbles than Carr's picks though. DD's fumbles seem habitual now. Teams are keying on stripping the ball from him too.

It seems like Caper's philosophy is to wear teams down with DD and watch him plow over them with ease in the 4th. The problem I see with it is too much run, run, pass in the first half, particularly the first quarter. I'd like to see more 1st and 2nd down play action passes in the first half. We can still run prodominantly, but we should take advantage of the stacked lines we are seeing so much of.

[MojoX]

Too much of the load is falling on DD, right now. The guy is a good back, but maybe he just isn't effective as over 50% of the offense. DD isn't LT. When he isn't fumbling, he is a consistent running threat, but never a threat to take it all the way from anywhere on the field. There is no reason why he should be the leading receiver, especially when Andre Johnson is on the field. The coaches and Carr need to get more of those passes to the TEs and WRs. Those dump offs to DD could be going to a TE or slot receiver.

[Htown34s]

If you think about it, this is the first time our guys have had to deal with any sort of adversity. They were expected to win these first two games and failed. This is new. How they respond will determine Caper's future and the team's reputation.

I support them of course, but I do have a few gripes:

-When was the last time Carr did a pump fake? He stares down his receivers too much.

-DD still goes down with only one arm on the ball.

-90% of our play calling is run on 1st and 2nd down and then try to pass for a first down. NO imagination. Screen dumps are not opening up the offense.

-Carr seems to give up too easy on his receivers and dumps to DD. Effective, but I wished he'd let Johnson try to go get it more.

-Where is the blitz? I can't remember the last time I saw an all-out blitz by our "hard to recognize the blitz" D.

Also, in my eyes, our guys are playing soft. It seems like the other team always hits harder and plays nastier (but fair).

To me, all of these are coaching issues. I feel like we're on the road to being respected in another two or three years, but not this year. I don't think its possible with Capers' coaching, he will need more time to work with the guys because he's not the type that gets quick results.

[YoungnotBush]

It decreased everyone elses stats because the Texans knew they had to start pounding the ball and try to extend games and pull out a win in the fourth quarter. That also keeps other teams offenses off the field and that way they can't beat you 50 - 0. DD gave us our best chances of winning, but the QB has to be able to seal the deal.

[Big78]

i attribute it to the fact that carr had no effective #2WR to look to. DD was essencialy his #2 and he did a good job, i think, in giving Carr a reliable option.

[Scooter]

whew, you did some digging for this one. DD has two knocks on his game. 1, he isnt incredibly fast. 2, he isnt very durable (despite this post's creation being after a 300+ carry/68 catch season). neither are very arguable because they're accurate. unless you're drafting jim brown however, every back has trade offs and i for one would trade speed for vision. as far as durability ... look at DD's injuries (bruised ribs, bruised thigh, etc). i'm not one to question his heart because when he plays he leaves it all on the field, but if we could field something resembling a winning team i bet he'd line up in a wheelchair if he had to.

what this post was in reference to however is how the offense reacts with & without his presence. it's actually been argued that the offense performs better without DD because then they actually have to play football and not form an offensive gameplan 90% around DD. i find it hard to fault DD for carr not having a TE to check down to or sufficient blocking to find the deep routed receivers in palmer's passing attack. nor is it DD's fault that every play capers called involved looking at the clock first. what we had is a conflict of interest ... a defensive coordinator calling the offensive plays and a long ball offensive coordinator arguing with it. when DD was in the game, other teams DID have to game plan around him ... the trick was to make our offense one dimensional. either by stacking the box the entire game, or letting DD be the entire offense the opposition successfully dictated how we played. when DD wasnt playing we were forced to have to play the entire offense because our coaching staff was otherwise befuddled as to what to do. this is poor game planning and poor adjustment ... NOT poor execution.

i think next season we'll really start seeing how much of an asset DD is with kubiak calling the shots. our possession WR's (plus 'dre who plays like the biggest guy on the field) should fit entirely into kubiak's shorter "zone destruction" passing game, and DD should benefit greatly from kubiak being smart enough to work his run blocking scheme to exploit DD's acceleration and cut-back ability. with the addition of a legitimate tight end, and if very least a better coached line, i think DD is going to be a fantasy draft "must" for years to come.

[zeplin]

The Texan were a team that was coached by someone who believed in the ball control philosophy. 3 yards and a cloud of dust. When they did pass usually DC was looking up from the ground. It was not until later in the season that they began to work for the quick short pass to keep defense off of DC. He had about 1.5 secs on avg to make a decision on where the ball was going too. If Sherman is really coming to Houston then we should benifit from his experiance. DD will work nicely with a revamped OL. We should be happy that we have a 1000 yard rusher already in place.
OL, OL, OL!!!!

[TheOgre]

I'd add DD's lack of pass-blocking skills to his deficiencies. Bush is allegedly a decent pass-blocker.


*edit* Also, take a look at our winning percentage with DD starting verses Wells starting over the past 3 seasons.

[Kaiser Toro]

Originally Posted by TheOgre

*edit* Also, take a look at our winning percentage with DD starting verses Wells starting over the past 3 seasons.

I would say the problem was DC always looking to dump off to DD and it stumped our running and passing game. 8 men in the box were always licking their chops. Wells was never a threat in the passing game, so DC in the time he could drop back usually had an extra blocker in Wells. Just a shell game in my opinion, with the former staff not knowing how to use their assets properly.

If you want to talk winning percentages then why did we just extend Carr when we had a guy on the bench that guided us to three wins out of five games in Banks. Best streak in Texans history.

[Vinny]

Originally Posted by Big78

i attribute it to the fact that carr had no effective #2WR to look to. DD was essencialy his #2 and he did a good job, i think, in giving Carr a reliable option.

When AJ is injured Gaffney catches 9 passes....how come he can't get looks at a WR2 but out produce AJ when he is the first option? So Gaffney can beat CB1's but not CB2's? (I think I know why but I will keep my mouth shut because I don't want to get into it with the apologists). If you haven't been the first or last option in this offense you have been lost....I don't think that is Gaffney's fault.

also, DD is a dump off....he just swings to the flat...he is the last option.

[thunderkyss]

This thread was started after our second season...... it makes some of the last replies seem odd..... you're using Carr's deficiencies from last year to explain problems he had two seasons ago... two seasons ago..

Originally Posted by Htown34s

If you think about it, this is the first time our guys have had to deal with any sort of adversity. They were expected to win these first two games and failed. This is new. How they respond will determine Caper's future and the team's reputation.

I support them of course, but I do have a few gripes:

-When was the last time He stares down his receivers too much. Carr did a pump fake?

-DD still goes down with only one arm on the ball.

-90% of our play calling is run on 1st and 2nd down and then try to pass for a first down. NO imagination. Screen dumps are not opening up the offense.

-Carr seems to give up too easy on his receivers and dumps to DD. Effective, but I wished he'd let Johnson try to go get it more.

-Where is the blitz? I can't remember the last time I saw an all-out blitz by our "hard to recognize the blitz" D.

Also, in my eyes, our guys are playing soft. It seems like the other team always hits harder and plays nastier (but fair).

To me, all of these are coaching issues. I feel like we're on the road to being respected in another two or three years, but not this year. I don't think its possible with Capers' coaching, he will need more time to work with the guys because he's not the type that gets quick results.

two seasons ago...

[chuckm]

Originally Posted by Vinny

also, DD is a dump off....he just swings to the flat...he is the last option.

eureka, we have agreement .... I expect that we differ on the causes of this effect (although I'll keep my mouth shut rather than risk the wrath of the Carr bashers) ... I suspect, but don't know this to be fact, that Carr did not begin his pro career with the mindset of "first option isn't open so dump it" ... was Billy Miller his first option on the first TD against the Cowboys?

[Vinny]

Originally Posted by chuckm

was Billy Miller his first option on the first TD against the Cowboys?

Billy Miller was the safety valve in the first year. Corey Bradford was the first option. They moved to using Dom Davis as the SV after the first and second seasons. Then Miller went to a 'middle option' in the progression and he dissappeared from the offense at this point too. Kinda brings my point full circle.

[chuckm]

Originally Posted by Vinny

Kinda brings my point full circle.

you're reaching ..... but that's cool ..... the breeze is nice ....

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Vinny

Billy Miller was the safety valve in the first year. Corey Bradford was the first option. They moved to using Dom Davis as the SV after the first and second seasons. Then Miller went to a 'middle option' in the progression and he dissappeared from the offense at this point too. Kinda brings my point full circle.

He disappeared, because we were using our TEs mostly for protection right??