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Old 03-25-2012   #41
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Default Re: Where i think we stand.

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Originally Posted by Runner View Post
I'll help you understand my logic. Yes Duane Brown is an important player, I didn't say he wasn't. That doesn't mean re-signing him is the number one goal the team should have. Most teams are shooting for the Super Bowl next season, not locking up top notch left tackles in another year. Just because the Texans are apparently opening up a lot of cap space for next off-season doesn't mean this is a successful off-season.

I know some people are being deliberately obtuse or just looking for small parts of my posts to twist around to show my statements are wrong and illogical, or to "prove" that I am too stupid to realize we can't sign All-Pros at every position. Guess what - I get it. I know the Texans can't keep all of their players and shouldn't. My point is that they may likely be less competitive next year, judging from the early effects of free agency.

Here is some logic I don't understand. The Texans get to the playoffs once, lose some talented and contributing players because of the salary cap issues, and that proves that the team is just fine and is like the Patriots and Steelers.

Why are they more like them then teams that haven't won multiple - or any - Super Bowls and face salary cap issues?
I guess we just disagree on the fundamental idea.
I think the team has actually improved, overall, this offseason. The biggest loss is Ryans' leadership. Wade will pick up the slack there.
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Old 03-25-2012   #42
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Default Re: Where i think we stand.

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
I guess we just disagree on the fundamental idea.
I think the team has actually improved, overall, this offseason. The biggest loss is Ryans' leadership. Wade will pick up the slack there.
How has the team improved, we have lost numerous starters and added no free agents. Even if you believe we have pieces that can step in and do better jobs, the team at the very least has gotten worse for loss of depth.
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Old 03-25-2012   #43
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Default Re: Where i think we stand.

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
My point, is that we are in "cap hell" & we've got two, maybe three All-pro's on the roster.

That does not sound like fiscal responsibility.
I think you're helping to argue Smithiak's case here... This FAgency they're trying to avoid the overpaying, so they're really managing the cap in front of our eyes...

A lot of people complaining about this "cap hell" are at the same time pissed because the Texans are making the tough decisions to help avoid all out cap hell in the future...

The reactions to Dreesen being allowed to walk and Ryans being traded are perfect examples.. People are so pissed that Smithiak won't pay our #2 TE starting money, and that we won't pay our part-time ILB elite LB money, yet they also ***** about Smithiak managing the cap poorly... What these people are calling for is more poor managing of the cap...

You want to talk about fiscal responsibility? I think they're showing some right now by refusing to overpay average players... You guys cannot have it both ways...

As i've said, a prime example of wanting the cake and eating it too...
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Old 03-25-2012   #44
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Default Re: Where i think we stand.

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
You seem to be confusing the All-Pro team for the All-Homer team.

& I'm not talking about Pro-Bowls either.

I think we've got a solid team, not a $120M dollar team.

If you count second teamers, we've got 4 All-Pros. Duane Brown, Brian Cushing, Arian Foster, & Jonathan Joseph. All second team.
All Pros according to who ??? This is all opinon if u are talking about NFL all Pro, we have a bunch of impact players on our team besides the few that we let go, and we dont have a 120 million dollar team, we actually do have cap room now.

so the argument about all pros on the team is just not a case for anything. I would rather have a full starting defense full of solid players who can play their position good instead of 5 all pros and the rest scrubs.
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Old 03-25-2012   #45
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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Which player that we have lost do you think will leave the biggest gap? Or which player do you think will be the hardest to replace?

Also, do you think it's possible that will get better in other areas (like wr or guys that were rookies get better) and maybe off set some of the drop off (if there is any) ?
I hesitate to say where the biggest hole is, because then I will be told how a particular move makes sense by itself. My point has been we have multiple holes now, and limited resources to fill them all. I am interested to see how the OL and WRs shake out. For instance, if Dre gets hurt again, "next man up" isn't so catchy if that man is Jacoby Jones.

The area we will get better is easy for me. Quarterback, assuming Schaub is healthy.
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Old 03-25-2012   #46
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Default Re: Where i think we stand.

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Originally Posted by Runner View Post
I hesitate to say where the biggest hole is, because then I will be told how a particular move makes sense by itself. My point has been we have multiple holes now, and limited resources to fill them all. I am interested to see how the OL and WRs shake out. For instance, if Dre gets hurt again, "next man up" isn't so catchy if that man is Jacoby Jones.

The area we will get better is easy for me. Quarterback, assuming Schaub is healthy.
Even if Schaub isn't healthy, you have to assume TJ is better than last season given a full off-season.

Answering the previous question, I do think the personnel we have kept will improve over the offseason, you have to assume that, especially when the areas we've lost starters are positions we've been good at coaching for longer than just since Wade's been here too, we've always got the maximum out of our LB's in the Smithiak era.

Thats why I'm not going to worry yet, it isn't even as if we haven't seen drafts where the number of holes we have have been filled with starters previously, not that I feel we have to bank on that.

Just say we improve 2 starting slots through the draft, and get good backups elsewhere, you're only relying on 2 or maybe 3 of the guys who were backups last season to take significant snaps.

If the whole draft is a complete bust, then yeah, we may have a problem with overall talent at a few spots, if we hit on a couple of positions in the draft, we'll be fine.

I know why you and others are worried Runner, we've lost some starters, some leadership and some depth. We haven't really lost that many pieces though, and have the chance to get better through the draft, and have plenty of quality depth to compete for the spots as well.
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Old 03-25-2012   #47
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Default Re: Where i think we stand.

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Originally Posted by Runner View Post
I'll help you understand my logic.

Here is some logic I don't understand. The Texans get to the playoffs once, lose some talented and contributing players because of the salary cap issues, and that proves that the team is just fine and is like the Patriots and Steelers.

Why are they more like them then teams that haven't won multiple - or any - Super Bowls and face salary cap issues?
Good question. But the Steelers are in cap hell, same as us. But, you can look at that roster & see why. They paid a lot of players a lot of money & those players are getting a little long in the tooth. They got their money's worth.

The Patriots have a QB & nothing else. They also have cap room to manuever if the wanted to & they've got the draft picks to move up or down to get the players they want & not settle for the players they can get.
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Old 03-25-2012   #48
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Default Re: Where i think we stand.

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
I think the talent on the team definitely helped, but the texans made the play offs last year because they finally got a competent d coordinator.
I think our schedule & the lock out helped as well. Had Frank Bush been here & played as aggressively as he did in 2009, I think we would have had the same results.

Next year's opponents will be much more formidable than the majority of the teams we played in 2011. If Wade continues to let the guys play aggressively, giving up big plays every now & then, I think we'll do pretty good.

If he starts playing prevent defense for 3 Qtrs trying to stop the big plays... we'll get our asses handed to us again.
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Old 03-25-2012   #49
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Default Re: Where i think we stand.

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Originally Posted by EllisUnit View Post
I have been hearing a lot of negativity, i was one of them, i finally had a chance to calm down and i have began to view all that is happening in a new light.

What the texans are doing is not near rebuilding, not gutting. They are simply helping the team for the future. Lets be honest if we would of tried to resign most of our starters that would of been great but imagine what our cap situation would of been next season and the season after that.

What they have done is really smart, they have dropped some players who had pretty high salaries that are easily replacable. That way we will also have money to resign some of our better players who will be FA come next off season.

Demeco was a good player for us for a long time, but after his injury and with the new 3-4 system he was virtually usless. Winston was a liability in the pass game and Brisel was ok but not irreplacable. I trust that Kubiak can plug whoever he dicides to into the O-line and pick up where we left off last season. Mario was a good DE when he was healthy, but when is the last time he was healthy ? It had been a while thats for sure.

I think we draft a WR in the draft who will be expected to start and i believe that we trade jacoby for a draft pick soon. We will be ok and i think or chance to win the superbowl now is just as good as it was before FA began.
what a difference a day makes for a day dreaming boy...


#2 WR, starting OG and ILB replacement for Ryans would be nice. Maybe Caldwell could be backup center but me, I'm praying for Myers to start every game
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Old 03-25-2012   #50
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Default Re: Where i think we stand.

We have recently become younger. We need to prepare to replace Andre Johnson and Matt Schaub even if Matt is re-signed. TJ may be the eventual replacement but that is more a fantasy than a dream. This does not have to be done this draft but soon.
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Old 03-25-2012   #51
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Default Re: Where i think we stand.

ikeep telling my selfs its not like Winston Dressen and Brisles are Pro bowl players its not like they can be replaced or even upgraded

we got a 4 Player Depth at guard

hopefully Butler can plug right in

Decent depth at TE

the only stud i think we need is another OLB
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Old 03-25-2012   #52
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Default Re: Where i think we stand.

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Originally Posted by drunkcookie View Post

You want to talk about fiscal responsibility? I think they're showing some right now by refusing to overpay average players... You guys cannot have it both ways...
Doesn't change the fact that they screwed up to get to where we are now, which is what we've been saying, they're scrambling to fix their screw ups.


Quote:
Originally Posted by EllisUnit View Post
...and we dont have a 120 million dollar team, we actually do have cap room now.

so the argument about all pros on the team is just not a case for anything. I would rather have a full starting defense full of solid players who can play their position good instead of 5 all pros and the rest scrubs.
My whole argument is predicated on our team being in "cap hell" If the posters saying we had $30M in cap space as of March 13 are correct, then I'm as happy as a clam.

We've got nothing to go on but rumors so far. So we've got a bunch of ifs..... if the Texan didn't offer Mario $14M because they didn't think it fiscally responsible, I'm good with that. If they didn't offer it because they don't have the money.. not so much.

If they thought they could do better than Eric Winston, Mike Brisiel, & Joel Dressen, I'm fine with that as well. If they couldn't afford to bring those players along.... not so much.

If they thought Demeco Ryans has seen his best days & thought it was time to move on, I'm fine with that as well. If they think Ryans is on his way to a full recovery, but couldn't afford to pay him what he's worth..... not so much.

However, everything that has happened since March 13 points to serious cap mismanagement. It says we have already over-paid a bunch of mediocre players, $120M dollars worth. We've got 4 second team All-Pros on this team, none are our QB or an outside pass rusher....

If you don't see a problem with that, I don't know what to tell you.


I've said my peace.
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Old 03-25-2012   #53
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Default Re: Where i think we stand.

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Doesn't change the fact that they screwed up to get to where we are now, which is what we've been saying, they're scrambling to fix their screw ups.
I can't believe I'm the one asking this, but exactly what are the Texans' "screw ups" that put them in this position? What contracts are so atrocious that they put the team in "cap hell"? I look at the guys who are getting the most $$$ (AJ, Antonio, Joseph, Schaub) and they've pretty much earned their money. Foster and Myers earned their respective raises. I see this more as a function of having a lot of good players and not enough salary cap to pay them all.

When I see the Texans screwing up, I won't be shy about pointing it out. This isn't the first time a team has had to cut/trade/not re-sign players in order to get under the cap. The good teams find a way to continue to win. We'll see if the Texans are one of those "good teams".
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Old 03-25-2012   #54
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Default Re: Where i think we stand.

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All I have learned from this off season is that Texan fans are unrealistic. They want 4 pro bowl linebackers. They want 3 all pros on the defensive line. They want 2 shut down corners and 2 ball hawking safeties that never miss a tackle. They want not only an elite running back but his back up to be a 1000 yard rusher too. They want a top 5 qb, and lots of fast wide receivers. They want all 5 positions on the offensive line to all stay together for max salary. About the only thing texan fans don't want is tight ends. And they want all of these players to fit under the salary cap for the next 6 years.
You and your 60 posts are completely full of it. Not one person on this site has pushed any agenda like that or something that extreme. Nice try at exxaggeration, but it's completely false rhetoric.
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Old 03-25-2012   #55
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Default Re: Where i think we stand.

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I can't believe I'm the one asking this, but exactly what are the Texans' "screw ups" that put them in this position? What contracts are so atrocious that they put the team in "cap hell"? I look at the guys who are getting the most $$$ (AJ, Antonio, Joseph, Schaub) and they've pretty much earned their money. Foster and Myers earned their respective raises. I see this more as a function of having a lot of good players and not enough salary cap to pay them all.

When I see the Texans screwing up, I won't be shy about pointing it out. This isn't the first time a team has had to cut/trade/not re-sign players in order to get under the cap. The good teams find a way to continue to win. We'll see if the Texans are one of those "good teams".
The Texans didn't "screw up" at all. They actually did the opposite.. a screw up would've been them not recognizing that they were bleeding on defense, thus not signing Manning or Joseph and make a scheme change to rectify the situation. It was that scheme change that made certain players expendable and not nearly worh their value. That scheme change is what led them to draft Brooks, which is what ended up making Mario Williams expendable and not worth nearly enough to us as he was to the bills. It was also that scheme change that made Demeco Ryans a highly over paid player when he was worth his contract in a 4-3 front.

If you want to point out a screw up , the screw up happened when they held on to the unproven defensive staffs for as long as they did. However it is now wrong to criticize them for correcting that mistake, a correction that has now forced us to part from certain players. If that's a screw up then I guess every GM in the leauge screws up. The Texans were pressed hard against the cap and had to make some tough decisions.. the same type of decisions that every other team also faces.

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Old 03-25-2012   #56
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Default Re: Where i think we stand.

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
You seem to be confusing the All-Pro team for the All-Homer team.

& I'm not talking about Pro-Bowls either.

I think we've got a solid team, not a $120M dollar team.

If you count second teamers, we've got 4 All-Pros. Duane Brown, Brian Cushing, Arian Foster, & Jonathan Joseph. All second team.
If you're speaking strictly All-Pros, how many teams have more than four on their roster? Hell, how many have four? As you said, not pro-bowlers but All-Pros.

And since you said "including second teamers" I would argue that Myers is 2nd team All-Pro at center and a healthy A.J. is second team All-Pro (at least) at WR.
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Old 03-25-2012   #57
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Default Re: Where i think we stand.

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
You and your 60 posts are completely full of it. Not one person on this site has pushed any agenda like that or something that extreme. Nice try at exxaggeration, but it's completely false rhetoric.
He's right tho.
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Old 03-25-2012   #58
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You seem to be confusing the All-Pro team for the All-Homer team.

& I'm not talking about Pro-Bowls either.

I think we've got a solid team, not a $120M dollar team.

If you count second teamers, we've got 4 All-Pros. Duane Brown, Brian Cushing, Arian Foster, & Jonathan Joseph. All second team.
^This. In what crazy alternate universe is Schaub considered an All-pro? Seriously, people really need to see Schaub for what he is, an above average QB who is a bargain at 8 mill a year. If he was scheduled to make 13 mill this year he would be Demeco'd.
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Old 03-25-2012   #59
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Default Re: Where i think we stand.

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He's right tho.
No, he is just as full of it as you are.
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Old 03-25-2012   #60
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Default Re: Where i think we stand.

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Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
^This. In what crazy alternate universe is Schaub considered an All-pro? Seriously, people really need to see Schaub for what he is, an above average QB who is a bargain at 8 mill a year. If he was scheduled to make 13 mill this year he would be Demeco'd.
Yep, but the problem is that even 2nd tier QBs (and Schaub is right at the top of the list of non elite QBs) still get paid a boat load of money.. they get paid more than "all pros" do at other positions and if Schaub stays healthy and has the type of year that he's more than capable of having (by no means is he some scrub either) it's going to take a lot of cash to bring him back.

And if Shaub was making 13 mil per he wouldn't be demeco'ed either.. QBs get overpaid all the time and if you have a live body at that position, teams are more than willing to eat it. It isn't even fair to compare Schaub to Demeco, the monetary value of the positions are on two complete different stratospheres. Demeco's cap hit alone is not what got him demeco'ed.. His cap hit plus the fact that he did not fit the system is what got him Demeco'ed. Schaub is still a highly productive player in the system that he plays in, where Demeco was not and that is the main reason why he no longer plays here.

Last edited by Carr Bombed; 03-25-2012 at 10:27 PM.
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