Where i think we stand.

[DocBar]

Originally Posted by Runner

I am calm about my evaluation too, and I still have a negative viewpoint. The parts I have bolded are similar to what I've been saying. They are sacrificing this season, on purpose or not, to salary cap issues they created and to the seasons after the next.

The NFL is a "win now" league. Being able to re-sign Brown won't mean much if Schaub and/or Dre suffer more major injuries next year and don't ever get back to form. Probably neither happens, but Texans fans should be well aware by now that things rarely go as planned. Opportunity must be snatched when it is there. It disappears too fast for the team to run in place for a season.


Just win the season-after-next, baby.




Sounds easy. The truth is that it's easier said than done, especially for a team with cap issues.

I don't follow the logic behind this thinking. Brown has turned into an excellent LT and is still young. You don't let those guys walk if you can help it. Regardless of who is playing QB, RB or WR, they need protection and time or a hole to run through. Brown is an absolute no-brainer to re-sign. I hope they extend him and Cushing this season so they never even get a glimpse of FA.

The Texans are in a good position right now. As EllisUnit pointed out, the replacements on the OL are known quantities and there shouldn't be much of a learning curve there.
They need to draft for depth, with an eye on good contribution from the early round picks and keep making good FA decisions.

[dinkatoid]

The Houston Chronicle reported a bit back that "The Texans would like to extend the contracts of OLB Connor Barwin and LT Duane Brown before the start of the 2012 season." The Rotoworld link to it is here: http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5267/connor-barwin

When I started reading things like this, I am inclined to believe what many have said in this thread: this was not about us being in a bad situation now, but preparing for the future. It would have been nice to keep everyone, but then who do we lose down the road cause of this? They made choices and decided who was the most expendable, and then made sacrifices. Nobody wanted to do it, but with a hard cap, it has to be done sometimes.

As for DeMeco, it really is odd to me that people are saying he was not traded for enough value. The problem is value is perceived - we think he is worth a lot because of what we have seen him do. The problem is that he is making a lot of money and after the injury and scheme change, there are some question marks. Teams knew that we would probably have to get rid of him at some point. Why offer an equal trade? If they don't, he probably has to be released in a year or two, and the team can get him there with no compensation.

You see this quite a bit in basketball at the trade deadline - some star player gets traded for pennies on the dollar. This is because they know there is no other choice but to risk losing them for nothing. I don't think we wanted to get rid of Ryans like this, but the Texans had to know the longer we waited, the more his value went down. If we were going to make a move, we had to do it, and we got the best that was offered for it. From Rotoworld: " Considering Ryans $5.9 million salary, the Texans' haul was as much as could reasonably be expected. "
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3657/demeco-ryans

Also, just my 2 cents on Jacoby: he will be here for the rest of this season. The problem is we have 3 WRs right now. Even if we draft one, we might still have to find 1 more. I just don't think the texans want to add another empty roster spot to the list - they have enough spots to fill with the draft right now.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by ObsiWan

You're half right. They did panic. But the "panic" was last year, not this year.

Smithiak knew they were dead men walking if they didn't at least win the division after the 6-10 showing in 2010. So they pulled out all the stops to shore up the defense last year with the Manning & Joseph acquisitions. They pushed money into the cap this year to make that happen.

We're in cap hell for what? Jjo?

Last year's rookies aren't getting paid squat. Neither is Cushing. We've got a few studs on this team that are making healthy salaries. If the numbers on this chart aren't correct, then we've made a bad habit of overpaying mediocre players.


To pour salt on open wound, notice Jacoby's 2012 cap number versus Andre's & tell me something ain't wrong.

[ObsiWan]

This doesn't tell me what the cap situ was during the 2010 season or going into the 2011 offseason OR what cap changes were made to bring Manning and Joseph (and sign 1st rounder Watt) on board.

Without that data neither of us has a basis for discussion.

I know I heard that a couple of our stars restructured their deals to make cap room to sign those guys.

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by ObsiWan

This doesn't tell me what the cap situ was during the 2010 season or going into the 2011 offseason OR what cap changes were made to bring Manning and Joseph (and sign 1st rounder Watt) on board.

Without that data neither of us has a basis for discussion.

I know I heard that a couple of our stars restructured their deals to make cap room to sign those guys.

Not only that but the numbers aren't making sense with other reports.

For example, TK's source is reporting a $4.5+ mil cap hit for 2012. The reports were a three year $10.5 mil contract with this year's salary at $3 mil. To get to a $4.5 mil cap hit the signing bonus would have to be $4.5 mil. But $4 mil next year, plus $3 mil this year, plus $4.5 mil signing bonus, plus his salary last year adds up to a more than $10.5.

[redwhiteblue]

All I have learned from this off season is that Texan fans are unrealistic. They want 4 pro bowl linebackers. They want 3 all pros on the defensive line. They want 2 shut down corners and 2 ball hawking safeties that never miss a tackle. They want not only an elite running back but his back up to be a 1000 yard rusher too. They want a top 5 qb, and lots of fast wide receivers. They want all 5 positions on the offensive line to all stay together for max salary. About the only thing texan fans don't want is tight ends. And they want all of these players to fit under the salary cap for the next 6 years.

[redwhiteblue]

And the front office is not allowed to miss on a draft pick. They must all be home runs and diamonds in the rough

[thunderkyss]

My point, is that we are in "cap hell" & we've got two, maybe three All-pro's on the roster.

That does not sound like fiscal responsibility.

[bckey]

Originally Posted by WolverineFan

Is that an actual feeling/prediction? Or just you hoping/convincing yourself it will happen?

I guess I could ask you the same thing.

[EllisUnit]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

My point, is that we are in "cap hell" & we've got two, maybe three All-pro's on the roster.

That does not sound like fiscal responsibility.

2 maybe 3 all Pros. Here is a list of all pro off the top of my head

Foster, Schaub, AJ, JoJo, Daniel Manning

and lets not forget all the politics in the NFL, look at ray lewis did he deserve to go to the pro bowl over cushing ? Hell no. so i would add

Cushing, A. Smith, Myers, D. Brown, O.D, Watt, Barwin

i think our roster is still way more solid than you seem to think it is. We are not in cap hell ANYMORE, and we wont be next season either due to all the cuts and trades we have made this season !

[DocBar]

Originally Posted by EllisUnit

2 maybe 3 all Pros. Here is a list of all pro off the top of my head

Foster, Schaub, AJ, JoJo, Daniel Manning

and lets not forget all the politics in the NFL, look at ray lewis did he deserve to go to the pro bowl over cushing ? Hell no. so i would add

Cushing, A. Smith, Myers, D. Brown, O.D, Watt, Barwin

i think our roster is still way more solid than you seem to think it is. We are not in cap hell ANYMORE, and we wont be next season either due to all the cuts and trades we have made this season !

I love it when prudent financial moves are also smart football moves. I mean this in the context of cutting Winston, not re-signing Briseil and trading Ryans.

[Thorn]

Originally Posted by DocBar

I love it when prudent financial moves are also smart football moves. I mean this in the context of cutting Winston, not re-signing Briseil and trading Ryans.

Rick Smith and Kubiak both were rookies at their respective jobs when they first came here. Personally, I think it took them to long to get their acts togeather, but they have built a good team. Keeping Wade Phillips was the best thing they did this offseason. That and signing Foster and Myers.

[DocBar]

Originally Posted by Thorn

Rick Smith and Kubiak both were rookies at their respective jobs when they first came here. Personally, I think it took them to long to get their acts togeather, but they have built a good team. Keeping Wade Phillips was the best thing they did this offseason. That and signing Foster and Myers.

Don't forget letting MW walk.

[aussie_texan]

Originally Posted by redwhiteblue

All I have learned from this off season is that Texan fans are unrealistic. They want 4 pro bowl linebackers. They want 3 all pros on the defensive line. They want 2 shut down corners and 2 ball hawking safeties that never miss a tackle. They want not only an elite running back but his back up to be a 1000 yard rusher too. They want a top 5 qb, and lots of fast wide receivers. They want all 5 positions on the offensive line to all stay together for max salary. About the only thing texan fans don't want is tight ends. And they want all of these players to fit under the salary cap for the next 6 years.

Isn't this what every fan of every team in every sport wants!

Its our right as fans to demand the best its what hopefully keeps the FO honest.

Im not saying we should have signed all these guys we lost this off-season because i think the FO have done everything correct for the franchise.

but still has fans we demand perfection even if it is unobtainable !!!

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by EllisUnit

2 maybe 3 all Pros. Here is a list of all pro off the top of my head

Foster, Schaub, AJ, JoJo, Daniel Manning

and lets not forget all the politics in the NFL, look at ray lewis did he deserve to go to the pro bowl over cushing ? Hell no. so i would add

Cushing, A. Smith, Myers, D. Brown, O.D, Watt, Barwin

i think our roster is still way more solid than you seem to think it is. We are not in cap hell ANYMORE, and we wont be next season either due to all the cuts and trades we have made this season !

You seem to be confusing the All-Pro team for the All-Homer team.

& I'm not talking about Pro-Bowls either.

I think we've got a solid team, not a $120M dollar team.

If you count second teamers, we've got 4 All-Pros. Duane Brown, Brian Cushing, Arian Foster, & Jonathan Joseph. All second team.

[Runner]

Originally Posted by DocBar

I don't follow the logic behind this thinking. Brown has turned into an excellent LT and is still young. You don't let those guys walk if you can help it. Regardless of who is playing QB, RB or WR, they need protection and time or a hole to run through. Brown is an absolute no-brainer to re-sign. I hope they extend him and Cushing this season so they never even get a glimpse of FA.

The Texans are in a good position right now. As EllisUnit pointed out, the replacements on the OL are known quantities and there shouldn't be much of a learning curve there.
They need to draft for depth, with an eye on good contribution from the early round picks and keep making good FA decisions.

I'll help you understand my logic. Yes Duane Brown is an important player, I didn't say he wasn't. That doesn't mean re-signing him is the number one goal the team should have. Most teams are shooting for the Super Bowl next season, not locking up top notch left tackles in another year. Just because the Texans are apparently opening up a lot of cap space for next off-season doesn't mean this is a successful off-season.

I know some people are being deliberately obtuse or just looking for small parts of my posts to twist around to show my statements are wrong and illogical, or to "prove" that I am too stupid to realize we can't sign All-Pros at every position. Guess what - I get it. I know the Texans can't keep all of their players and shouldn't. My point is that they may likely be less competitive next year, judging from the early effects of free agency.

Here is some logic I don't understand. The Texans get to the playoffs once, lose some talented and contributing players because of the salary cap issues, and that proves that the team is just fine and is like the Patriots and Steelers.

Why are they more like them then teams that haven't won multiple - or any - Super Bowls and face salary cap issues?

[Rey]

Originally Posted by Runner

I'll help you understand my logic. Yes Duane Brown is an important player, I didn't say he wasn't. That doesn't mean re-signing him is the number one goal the team should have. Most teams are shooting for the Super Bowl next season, not locking up top notch left tackles in another year. Just because the Texans are apparently opening up a lot of cap space for next off-season doesn't mean this is a successful off-season.

I think some people are being deliberately obtuse or just looking for small parts of my posts to twist around to show my statements are wrong and illogical, or to "prove" that I am too stupid to realize we can't sign All-Pros at every position.

Here is some logic I don't understand. The Texans get to the playoffs once, lose some talented and contributing players because of the salary cap issues, and that proves that the team is just fine and is like the Patriots and Steelers.

Why are they more like them then teams that haven't won multiple - or any - Super Bowls and face salary cap issues?

I think the talent on the team definitely helped, but the texans made the play offs last year because they finally got a competent d coordinator.

[Runner]

Originally Posted by Rey

I think the talent on the team definitely helped, but the texans made the play offs last year because they finally got a competent d coordinator.

Note - I was editing my post when you quoted it, so it doesn't look the same.

[Rey]

Originally Posted by Runner

Note - I was editing my post when you quoted it, so it doesn't look the same.

Which player that we have lost do you think will leave the biggest gap? Or which player do you think will be the hardest to replace?

Also, do you think it's possible that will get better in other areas (like wr or guys that were rookies get better) and maybe off set some of the drop off (if there is any) ?

[Rey]

Originally Posted by Runner

Note - I was editing my post when you quoted it, so it doesn't look the same.

Which player that we have lost do you think will leave the biggest gap? Or which player do you think will be the hardest to replace?

Also, do you think it's possible that will get better in other areas (like wr or guys that were rookies get better) and maybe off set some of the drop off (if there is any) ?