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Old 03-24-2012   #1
EllisUnit
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Default Where i think we stand.

I have been hearing a lot of negativity, i was one of them, i finally had a chance to calm down and i have began to view all that is happening in a new light.

What the texans are doing is not near rebuilding, not gutting. They are simply helping the team for the future. Lets be honest if we would of tried to resign most of our starters that would of been great but imagine what our cap situation would of been next season and the season after that.

What they have done is really smart, they have dropped some players who had pretty high salaries that are easily replacable. That way we will also have money to resign some of our better players who will be FA come next off season.

Demeco was a good player for us for a long time, but after his injury and with the new 3-4 system he was virtually usless. Winston was a liability in the pass game and Brisel was ok but not irreplacable. I trust that Kubiak can plug whoever he dicides to into the O-line and pick up where we left off last season. Mario was a good DE when he was healthy, but when is the last time he was healthy ? It had been a while thats for sure.

I think we draft a WR in the draft who will be expected to start and i believe that we trade jacoby for a draft pick soon. We will be ok and i think or chance to win the superbowl now is just as good as it was before FA began.
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Old 03-24-2012   #2
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Default Re: Where i think we stand.

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Originally Posted by EllisUnit View Post
What the texans are doing is not near rebuilding, not gutting. They are simply helping the team for the future.

What they have done is really smart, they have dropped some players who had pretty high salaries that are easily replacable. That way we will also have money to resign some of our better players who will be FA come next off season.
Most know that I'm usually the one bringing the koolaide to the party. This time however, I see an organization that got completely off guard and are now running to catch up.

If the Mario situation was the worst of it, I'd be ok with that, because it truly was a difficult situation. And though I am not the biggest fan of Eric Winston, I believe in Continuity. If we had someone on this team that could beat him out for the starting spot, that person should have been playing in the final games of the 2011 season.

Instead, it appears that we panicked & made some decisions we would rather not have.
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Demeco was a good player for us for a long time, but after his injury and with the new 3-4 system he was virtually usless.
Most of us are not without some intelligence. We know who & what Demeco is. We traded him for mid round picks, which most of us don't feel is equal value. Imagine Cushing gets pregnant again, who would you rather have be the next man up? Demeco or Sharpton?

Making too much money? Again, that points to errors made by the F.O. to fix that error, they could have traded him for what appears to be low value, or they could have restructured his deal where his cap hit is much lower. I can understand a FA like Mario or even Myers not wanting to work with the team to get that cap number lower, but 'Meco? I'm not buying it.

Winston as well... I can't imagine him not restructuring... we're not talking about less money, only the way it is paid out, which 9 times out of 10 benefits the player as much as the team.
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I think we draft a WR in the draft who will be expected to start and i believe that we trade jacoby for a draft pick soon. We will be ok and i think or chance to win the superbowl now is just as good as it was before FA began.
Everybody said the same about Jacoby for quite some time now. I'm beginning to think we have some pretty thick fans. Jacoby is here, Winston is not, Brisiel is not, Demeco is not, Dressen is not.... if they were going to get rid of Jacoby (which I think they should) they would have done it by now.

Jacoby making more money that Plaxico in 2011 didn't make sense. Making as much as Manningham in the 2012 season doesn't make sense. But we're going to have to wait & see how it plays out.

Especially since WR is no longer our top priority. Outside Pass Rusher, Offensive Guard, & ILB are at the top of our chart.
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Old 03-24-2012   #3
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Default Re: Where i think we stand.

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Most know that I'm usually the one bringing the koolaide to the party. This time however, I see an organization that got completely off guard and are now running to catch up.

If the Mario situation was the worst of it, I'd be ok with that, because it truly was a difficult situation. And though I am not the biggest fan of Eric Winston, I believe in Continuity. If we had someone on this team that could beat him out for the starting spot, that person should have been playing in the final games of the 2011 season.

Instead, it appears that we panicked & made some decisions we would rather not have.

Most of us are not without some intelligence. We know who & what Demeco is. We traded him for mid round picks, which most of us don't feel is equal value. Imagine Cushing gets pregnant again, who would you rather have be the next man up? Demeco or Sharpton?

Making too much money? Again, that points to errors made by the F.O. to fix that error, they could have traded him for what appears to be low value, or they could have restructured his deal where his cap hit is much lower. I can understand a FA like Mario or even Myers not wanting to work with the team to get that cap number lower, but 'Meco? I'm not buying it.

Winston as well... I can't imagine him not restructuring... we're not talking about less money, only the way it is paid out, which 9 times out of 10 benefits the player as much as the team.


Everybody said the same about Jacoby for quite some time now. I'm beginning to think we have some pretty thick fans. Jacoby is here, Winston is not, Brisiel is not, Demeco is not, Dressen is not.... if they were going to get rid of Jacoby (which I think they should) they would have done it by now.

Jacoby making more money that Plaxico in 2011 didn't make since. Making as much as Manningham in the 2012 season doesn't make since. But we're going to have to wait & see how it plays out.

Especially since WR is no longer our top priority. Outside Pass Rusher, Offensive Guard, & ILB are at the top of our chart.
I'm not saying they didnt panic, BUT i think with the moves they did make they were smart about it. I think they will wait until FA slows down and then see what kind of interest they get for Jacoby, maybe some other team out there is dumb like us and believe they can develope him, i hope so anyways.
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Old 03-24-2012   #4
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Default Re: Where i think we stand.

We already need a WR and that's with Jacoby on the roster. He will not be cut. Mark it down.

Everyone who has been cut, traded, or let walk is replaceable. Their replacements are already on the roster and obviously the staff believes they can be serviceable. Now they need to add depth behind those guys to keep the status quo.

These moves over the last 2 weeks do not make us a better team, but I do not think they make us dramatically worse. This team would have made the Super Bowl last year if not for so many injuries to key players.

With Schaub back I still see us as a top 3 team in the AFC. Now we just need to fill the new holes in the roster and add a few playmakers via the draft.
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Old 03-24-2012   #5
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Default Re: Where i think we stand.

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Everyone who has been cut, traded, or let walk is replaceable. Their replacements are already on the roster and obviously the staff believes they can be serviceable. Now they need to add depth behind those guys to keep the status quo.

These moves over the last 2 weeks do not make us a better team, but I do not think they make us dramatically worse. This team would have made the Super Bowl last year if not for so many injuries to key players.

With Schaub back I still see us as a top 3 team in the AFC. Now we just need to fill the new holes in the roster and add a few playmakers via the draft.
I can buy that. One thing that can be said, is that the Texans are not in any place they haven't been before. I personally generally like how they handle the off-season, but this time, my panties are already bunched up.
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Old 03-24-2012   #6
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Default Re: Where i think we stand.

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We already need a WR and that's with Jacoby on the roster. He will not be cut. Mark it down.
Mark this down. Jacoby will be a June 1st cut.
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Old 03-24-2012   #7
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Default Re: Where i think we stand.

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Mark this down. Jacoby will be a June 1st cut.
Is that an actual feeling/prediction? Or just you hoping/convincing yourself it will happen?
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Old 03-24-2012   #8
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Default Re: Where i think we stand.

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Originally Posted by EllisUnit View Post
I have been hearing a lot of negativity, i was one of them, i finally had a chance to calm down and i have began to view all that is happening in a new light.

What the texans are doing is not near rebuilding, not gutting. They are simply helping the team for the future. Lets be honest if we would of tried to resign most of our starters that would of been great but imagine what our cap situation would of been next season and the season after that.

What they have done is really smart, they have dropped some players who had pretty high salaries that are easily replacable. That way we will also have money to resign some of our better players who will be FA come next off season.

...
I am calm about my evaluation too, and I still have a negative viewpoint. The parts I have bolded are similar to what I've been saying. They are sacrificing this season, on purpose or not, to salary cap issues they created and to the seasons after the next.

The NFL is a "win now" league. Being able to re-sign Brown won't mean much if Schaub and/or Dre suffer more major injuries next year and don't ever get back to form. Probably neither happens, but Texans fans should be well aware by now that things rarely go as planned. Opportunity must be snatched when it is there. It disappears too fast for the team to run in place for a season.


Just win the season-after-next, baby.


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Originally Posted by WolverineFan View Post
...
Now we just need to fill the new holes in the roster and add a few playmakers via the draft.
Sounds easy. The truth is that it's easier said than done, especially for a team with cap issues.
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Old 03-24-2012   #9
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Default Re: Where i think we stand.

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Mark this down. Jacoby will be a June 1st cut.
That would be nice if it happens.
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Old 03-24-2012   #10
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Default Re: Where i think we stand.

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Mark this down. Jacoby will be a June 1st cut.
They could have designated him a June 1st cut already. Each team can designate two players as June 1st cuts and release them earlier.
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Old 03-24-2012   #11
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Default Re: Where i think we stand.

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Mark this down. Jacoby will be a June 1st cut.
I agree. He's in a holding pattern, which is the only pattern he does correctly. Once the draft is over, and the FA market is whittled down, he'll be a June 1st cut and off our books. Period.

In regards to Runner's assessment that 2012 might be a season sacrificed by the Texans front office, the only way I see that happening is if they know 100% Matt Schaub is not going to be back in 2012, meaning they feel they are going to have to have a lot of stars line up in 2012 (to begin with) to win the South and make a push in the playoffs.

The only thing I don't understand about that assessment is that it doesn't compute with a team led by McNair, Smith, and Kubiak (and now Wade, as well). I cannot foresee these guys meeting in the bunker at Reliant and sadly contemplating the surrender of their season so easily.

That sort of defeatist attitude, IMO, is being projected onto them by the creator of said assessment. If you cannot understand or foresee HOW the Texans would rectify the loss of our own FAs, it becomes easy to think it was all pre-destined to begin with and it's a white flag of surrender by the Texans altogether. I think those dots are being wrongly connected, actually.

What is certain, anyways? 1. McNair is loyal; 2. Kubiak is loyal; 3. McNair trusts Gary and Wade and Rick so they ain't going anywhere soon; 4. We retained two vital pieces to our offense; 5. We've lost a few our own FAs because a team paid them substantially more than we would have, respective of their level of worth to their new teams; and 6. We still have FAs out there we can re-sign, we have a draft coming up, OTAs, a UDFA system to utilize after the draft, as well as the normal sign/cut/sign/cut system used by all 32 teams during training camp and pre-season.

FWIW, you guys all know that I thought McNair was a cheapskate deluxe. Well, 2011 changed my view dramatically. And even with the first few weeks of FA underway, I haven't reverted back to my Bob's A Cheapskate ways. I feel comfortable knowing both sides of the football have a coach who knows what they want and what works for what we have here.

You know what would have been depressing? The off-chance we had kept Frank Bush for 2011, missed the playoffs while witnessing the Titans win the AFCS and then having watched a prime opportunity fly by us because we didn't change gears on defense. Success creates new problems, McNair & Co. are all learning as they go, apparently. This is new territory for Bob.
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Old 03-24-2012   #12
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I did not say they have given up on the season. That is a misinterpretation of what I am saying. It makes it easier to point out that "my projections" are what the issue is though.

I am sure that they will try to win to the best of their abilities and resources. The resources (which are their responsibility to manage) are the problem. The reality of the cap issue is what makes this a difficult season to improve. They have lost contributing players, and it will be difficult to replace them when the cap limits their free agent moves and with one draft to work with.

Many posters state that these moves were great because it helps with 2013 free agent signings. 2012? Not so much.
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Old 03-24-2012   #13
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Default Re: Where i think we stand.

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Sounds easy. The truth is that it's easier said than done, especially for a team with cap issues
I am starting to believe more and more that the Texans do not have any "major" cap problems, but are managing it now and trying to avoid major cap problems in the future...

How do you get into major cap trouble? By overpaying a right tackle, who though a great run blocker is not a real good pass blocker... Another way is to spend top notch MLB money on an ILB who is for the most part a part-time player... Then of course you can pay your #2 TE starting money..

I can't say the Texans will be as good as they were next year, yet Kubs and staff give me a little confidence.. for example: where in the hell did Joel Dreesen come from? Dude wasn't jack squat til he was in this offense! Now he's probabaly going to be starting in Denver...

Myers? Got him for nothing more than a 6th round draft pick, he was on the scrap heap... Fast-forward to 2012 and Texans fans were crying in their beers at the thought of him signing elsewhere...

Arian Foster? He went from UDFA to top RB in the league...enough said...

I can't say everything will be fine, but i've seen enough to say that this staff can plug holes on the offense pretty well, and Wade should have the D good to go...

We shall see...
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Old 03-24-2012   #14
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Default Re: Where i think we stand.

They're not rebuilding, they're not gutting, they're simply restructuring. Guess what? Companies in every line of business have to do it to remain competitive and this is no diferent. Hell every successful team in the league has had to do it to remain competitive. The Steelers have done it, the Eagles have done it, the Pats have done it, and the Colts had PLENTY of tough decisions they had to make to remain competitive over the last decade.... but god forbid if the Houston Texans make big boy tough decisions themselves Nope when the Texans do it, it clearly means they're forfeitting the up coming season and only care about winning 2 years from now. Yep, it has absolutey nothing to do with them wanting to restructure their books to make sure what happened this season doesn't happen again anytime soon and it also can't mean they're trying to realign their payroll to make sure they can lock up their young core players so they can compete on a yearly basis. It just means they want to win two years from now.

I also fail to see the logic in thinking that resigning Duane Brown won't mean much if Schaub or others get hurt.. The LT position is the 2nd most important position you have on your team and we have a pretty damn good young one. That guy needs to be locked up regardless of who's taking snaps under center, because you certainly aren't competing for much of anything with some Joe Blow at that position... we've already been there, done that, and have the T-shirt to prove it.
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Old 03-24-2012   #15
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Default Re: Where i think we stand.

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Most know that I'm usually the one bringing the koolaide to the party. This time however, I see an organization that got completely off guard and are now running to catch up.

Instead, it appears that we panicked & made some decisions we would rather not have.
You're half right. They did panic. But the "panic" was last year, not this year.

Smithiak knew they were dead men walking if they didn't at least win the division after the 6-10 showing in 2010. So they pulled out all the stops to shore up the defense last year with the Manning & Joseph acquisitions. They pushed money into the cap this year to make that happen.

The folks that had to be released this year boils down to us having to "pay the bill" for last year's success.

Welcome to success folks.

With free agency enabling every player to be a hired gun and the salary cap limiting how many home-grown hired guns each team gets to retain, this is how it's going to be. Truth is that we'll only be able to keep 15-20 high paid to moderately high paid performers on the team each season. The quality of our draft picks, fill-ins, and up-and-comers will determine whether we have continued success.

As other posters have noted, the Pats, Steelers, Giants, and others have been operating this way for a while. From year to year they pick and chose who they keep and who they let walk. This is new territory for us.
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Old 03-24-2012   #16
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They're not rebuilding, they're not gutting, they're simply restructuring. Guess what?
...
I guess:

Sometimes restructuring means a step back, or no improvement, before a step forward.


It's a simple concept, really. I don't expect fan(atic)s to agree it is happening. I think the anger its mention brings out is funny in a ridiculous sort of way though.
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Old 03-24-2012   #17
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Default Re: Where i think we stand.

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
But the "panic" was last year, not this year.
Yep, and it was a good gamble. With Schaub we had a real chance at the SB. Paying for the gamble now a bit, but I'd do it again.

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Welcome to success folks.
Good teams lose good players. We got a little "cap trapped" but it's SOP for elite teams.
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Old 03-24-2012   #18
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You're half right. They did panic. But the "panic" was last year, not this year.

Smithiak knew they were dead men walking if they didn't at least win the division after the 6-10 showing in 2010. So they pulled out all the stops to shore up the defense last year with the Manning & Joseph acquisitions. They pushed money into the cap this year to make that happen.

The folks that had to be released this year boils down to us having to "pay the bill" for last year's success.

...

As other posters have noted, the Pats, Steelers, Giants, and others have been operating this way for a while. From year to year they pick and chose who they keep and who they let walk. This is new territory for us.
Good point that they had to make up for a lot of defensive missteps from previous seasons last year and the bill is due now. That does imply everything isn't quite perfect though.

I know it's fun to think the Texans are the Pats and Steelers, but have any teams ever stumbled entering this "new territory"?
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Old 03-24-2012   #19
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Default Re: Where i think we stand.

You can put me right in the happy-clapper camp right now.

I have my concerns about some of the losses, but at the same time I can see the reasoning behind every single one of them.

Myers and Foster were the two most important FA's, we signed them both.

Mario got way more than he was worth to us, would have been a great piece to have but a luxury we can do without.

Briesel got $4m, above what I'd consider him to be worth to us, we have a well established backup in Caldwell, who has a fair amount of starting experience, and I'd expect us to draft competition for him in camp. Shame to lose MB but I can understand it.

Dreessen was a backup who made very few yards, and went unmarked in goal-line situations, that hints to me it was as much about scheme as ability, and we have Graham who supposedly has great hands and will likely either draft competition, or move Casey back and won't miss a beat. I'm fine with this.

Ryans, its a great shame to lose such a good locker room guy, but the guy isn't what he was, and doesn't play fit in on a lot of snaps. Finding a replacement does worry a little but to save $9m in 2013 is huge for us, its going to tie up our LT. It makes sense to do it, and it makes even more sense to do it now, best of luck to him.

Winston, another guy who's been a great servant, sad to see him go. He has his weaknesses and was being paid as if he didn't, we have a guy backing him up who we've spent plenty of time on, and again, we will likely draft some camp competition.

I'm not about to get too upset about this offseason right now, in a perfect world we wouldn't have lost any of them and simply strengthened by getting healthier for next season, I know its a win-now league, but who's to say they can't be just as good or better next season? Say they have a draft on the level of the '06 draft, 2 great OL, a great WR as opposed to OD, a great OLB and a great ILB?

Thats pretty much what the '06 draft got us, you'd rather not rely on getting that but at the same time I see guys already on the roster who have starting experience at ILB, OT, and OG, they may have their weaknesses but it isn't like we couldn't live with the level of talent they have.

As for the money saving side, great job, the only other move I'd make is to cut Jacoby, and again I'd do it now rather than wait a year and get rid of the dead money now.

Its not like we just went and lost our QB, C, TE & WR to FA as the Colts have. That is cleaning house, moving on a few guys who were great team players but who's contracts have outgrown their value isn't cleaning house, its making smart moves before they begin to hurt you.

I might be proven wrong in 6 months time, but between the fact that there is no point in getting worked up about it now, and that I can see all the reasoning behind every move, I'm not about to start getting all upset.

Edit; I just noticed that I joined this forum in Feb 05, I think in 04 I began to casually watch games, I think there may have been a late night game on TV that was the first time I got to watch the Texans live, and at the end of that season I decided to properly get into it and join this forum to learn more. If I survived that particular time in our history at the earliest stage of my fandom, I doubt there is anything coming that will top it next year! Chill out peeps.
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Old 03-24-2012   #20
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Default Re: Where i think we stand.

Texans will become elite when they take multiple years off from big spending in Free Agency. I can only hope that we are done with huge spending. J-Jo and Manning needs to be it for the next 4 yrs.
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