O-line Situation

[DocBar]

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

I would spend a Rd. 1/3 pick on a OT.

Nobody knows if Butler can stay healthy. A ruptured triceps injury can be a reoccurring thing.

The way I see the Texans needs are WR/OT/CB. I hope they take BPA at a position of need.

A later rd guy that intrigues me is Donald Stepehenson. He test well at the combine and seems to be a great fit for the ZBS. He can play both OG/OT.

Not picking on you, SBT, but these kind of comments irritate me. It would be more accurate, imo, to say I would spend a 1-3 round pick on an OT if there's one rated that high when we pick. Just drafting a player at a need position at a specific spot is just asking for trouble.
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[CloakNNNdagger]

Most fans would not know this, but high ankle sprains should ideally be given ~6 weeks of rest. Caldwell didn't have this. In fact, he tried to play through this notoriously painful injury from the beginning and all through the season.......to the point that mid way through the season, he actually developed a high ankle sprain to his opposite ankle...........and then continued to play through both injuries until the season was over. In my opinion, that takes quite a man. at that position where you severely stress your ankles on every play.

Remember how often you have "heard" me say that an unrehabilitated injury on one side commonly results in compensatory injuries on the other side? Well, for sure, last year you did not see the "real" Antoine Caldwell.......and that's why you see my expectations are for the return of a much better player than we ever saw last year.

[Insideop]

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger

Most fans would not know this, but high ankle sprains should ideally be given ~6 weeks of rest. Caldwell didn't have this. In fact, he tried to play through this notoriously painful injury from the beginning and all through the season.......to the point that mid way through the season, he actually developed a high ankle sprain to his opposite ankle...........and then continued to play through both injuries until the season was over. In my opinion, that takes quite a man. at that position where you severely stress your ankles on every play.

Remember how often you have "heard" me say that an unrehabilitated injury on one side commonly results in compensatory injuries on the other side? Well, for sure, last year you did not see the "real" Antoine Caldwell.......and that's why you see my expectations are for the return of a much better player than we ever saw last year.

Well, this is good news and gives me a little more optimism for the O-line this coming season. Just hope Caldwell performs at a high level and proves the nay-sayers wrong. Thanks for your expert opinions CND!

[badboy]

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger

Most fans would not know this, but high ankle sprains should ideally be given ~6 weeks of rest. Caldwell didn't have this. In fact, he tried to play through this notoriously painful injury from the beginning and all through the season.......to the point that mid way through the season, he actually developed a high ankle sprain to his opposite ankle...........and then continued to play through both injuries until the season was over. In my opinion, that takes quite a man. at that position where you severely stress your ankles on every play.

Remember how often you have "heard" me say that an unrehabilitated injury on one side commonly results in compensatory injuries on the other side? Well, for sure, last year you did not see the "real" Antoine Caldwell.......and that's why you see my expectations are for the return of a much better player than we ever saw last year.

I'm going with late round back ups at center and guard to train for future as our OLine coach seem good.

[Bulls on Parade]

Is there a veteran right guard or right tackle on the free agent market right now that we can sign or is it pretty limited? Obviously it would have to be somebody with knowledge of the zone-blocking schemes but it seems more teams use it these days.

[drs23]

Originally Posted by Bulls on Parade

Is there a veteran right guard or right tackle on the free agent market right now that we can sign or is it pretty limited? Obviously it would have to be somebody with knowledge of the zone-blocking schemes but it seems more teams use it these days.

As posted by many others as well as myself, don't look for the Texans to be players in FA. Hell, they can't even sign some guys I'm sure they'd like to keep. They'll be sitting on their hands during FA this year.

There're are several kingpins they've gotta ink next season and they're preparing for it and have been.

[IDEXAN]

Foster noted the importance of guard Mike Brisiel, who recently signed with the Oakland Raiders. "I'm really happy for Mike Brisiel," Foster said. "He's been a big part of my success. I'm happy for him and his family. But people forget Antoine Caldwell started the entire 2010 season, which was my best year as a pro."
http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articl...aders/10417060
********************
Thanks Arian because I for one forgot Caldwell started the whole 2010 season, and it's also been reported that his entire 2011 season was hampered by a high-ankle sprain.
This is reassuring to me and maybe others who've been concerned about a falloff in the performance OLine this year with the departure of Caldwell (and Winston) ?

[welsh texan]

Originally Posted by IDEXAN

Foster noted the importance of guard Mike Brisiel, who recently signed with the Oakland Raiders. "I'm really happy for Mike Brisiel," Foster said. "He's been a big part of my success. I'm happy for him and his family. But people forget Antoine Caldwell started the entire 2010 season, which was my best year as a pro."
http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articl...aders/10417060
********************
Thanks Arian because I for one forgot Caldwell started the whole 2010 season, and it's also been reported that his entire 2011 season was hampered by a high-ankle sprain.
This is reassuring to me and maybe others who've been concerned about a falloff in the performance OLine this year with the departure of Caldwell (and Winston) ?

I think the starting experience of both Butler and Caldwell has been noted. Its one reason I'm not too worried about these losses right now, especially if they can draft some quality at the positions and force these guys to battle it out in camp.

I'm actually a little more worried by this high-ankle sprain though, isn't that what we blamed 3 years of atrocious play by Myers on before he got it together?

Thanks for sharing.

[CloakNNNdagger]

Originally Posted by welsh texan

I think the starting experience of both Butler and Caldwell has been noted. Its one reason I'm not too worried about these losses right now, especially if they can draft some quality at the positions and force these guys to battle it out in camp.

I'm actually a little more worried by this high-ankle sprain though, isn't that what we blamed 3 years of atrocious play by Myers on before he got it together?

Thanks for sharing.

WT,

Myers actually initially suffered his high ankle sprain early in the 2009 camp and missed the first two preseason games that year. He played relatively poorly throughout that year, as would have been expected given that his injury was not given adequate rest. Before that 2009 season, Meyers was never reported to have any ankle problem, even dating back to his Bronco days. He has returned in both 2010 and 2011 to become one of the top centers in the league.

Indeed, it is possible for Caldwell to experience re-injury. But, it is more probable that after being allowed the necessary offseason rest/rehab program, he returns with a markedly improved performance profile.

[welsh texan]

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger

WT,

Myers actually initially suffered his high ankle sprain early in the 2009 camp and missed the first two preseason games that year. He played relatively poorly throughout that year, as would have been expected given that his injury was not given adequate rest. Before that 2009 season, Meyers was never reported to have any ankle problem, even dating back to his Bronco days. He has returned in both 2010 and 2011 to become one of the top centers in the league.

Indeed, it is possible for Caldwell to experience re-injury. But, it is more probable that after being allowed the necessary offseason rest/rehab program, he returns with a markedly improved performance profile.

Cool, reason for optimism then! Cheers Doc.

[otisbean]

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger

WT,

Myers actually initially suffered his high ankle sprain early in the 2009 camp and missed the first two preseason games that year. He played relatively poorly throughout that year, as would have been expected given that his injury was not given adequate rest. Before that 2009 season, Meyers was never reported to have any ankle problem, even dating back to his Bronco days. He has returned in both 2010 and 2011 to become one of the top centers in the league.

Indeed, it is possible for Caldwell to experience re-injury. But, it is more probable that after being allowed the necessary offseason rest/rehab program, he returns with a markedly improved performance profile.

Great couple of posts Doc! I've read that the excessive taping to the ankles is a root cause of the high ankle sprain, which to my understanding is a more severe injury than a lower ankle sprain. I've also read that excessive taping of the ankle can cause added knee stress. I'd love to hear your thoughts.

From my perspective as a Strength Coach, I know the joints alternate from mobility to stability throughout the body, a mobility joint has a fairly wide ROM capability while a stability joint has a more limited, for example the ankle is a "mobility" joint while the knee is a "stability" joint. From a movement screening perspective, when there is restriction in a mobility joint it will cause stress in the nearest stability as the body seeks to gain motion from somewhere. This can force a joint to do more than it was meant to do. With my clients, if they have generic knee pain (stiff, sore knees) if I work regain proper motion of the 2 nearest mobility joints, hip and ankle, their knee pain seems to ease quite a bit.

As a 30+ year football fan, it seems as if the high ankle sprain is a relatively new occurrence, but it could be that we just get waaay more info now than we used to.

[welsh texan]

Originally Posted by otisbean

Great couple of posts Doc! I've read that the excessive taping to the ankles is a root cause of the high ankle sprain, which to my understanding is a more severe injury than a lower ankle sprain. I've also read that excessive taping of the ankle can cause added knee stress. I'd love to hear your thoughts.

From my perspective as a Strength Coach, I know the joints alternate from mobility to stability throughout the body, a mobility joint has a fairly wide ROM capability while a stability joint has a more limited, for example the ankle is a "mobility" joint while the knee is a "stability" joint. From a movement screening perspective, when there is restriction in a mobility joint it will cause stress in the nearest stability as the body seeks to gain motion from somewhere. This can force a joint to do more than it was meant to do. With my clients, if they have generic knee pain (stiff, sore knees) if I work regain proper motion of the 2 nearest mobility joints, hip and ankle, their knee pain seems to ease quite a bit.

As a 30+ year football fan, it seems as if the high ankle sprain is a relatively new occurrence, but it could be that we just get waaay more info now than we used to.

I wonder if the cleats also have an impact on this, as technology allows a more flexible, lightweight shoe to be manufactured, we've seen a lot of injuries become more and more common. One has been the metatarsal injury in soccer, and I'm sure Schaubs lisfranc injury occured in a similar way to how the metatarsal injury would.

Maybe increased flexibility throughout the foot itself leads to added strain on the ankles?

[IDEXAN]

Originally Posted by welsh texan

I think the starting experience of both Butler and Caldwell has been noted. Its one reason I'm not too worried about these losses right now, especially if they can draft some quality at the positions and force these guys to battle it out in camp.

I'm actually a little more worried by this high-ankle sprain though, isn't that what we blamed 3 years of atrocious play by Myers on before he got it together?

Thanks for sharing.

And here's another "glass half-full" take on may part: maybe there wasn't really that much difference between Winston and Butler, it's just that they played Winston because he was the higher-paid guy, actually much higher-compensated than his former U teammate. And as we know that's what also got Winston fired.
My biggest concern about Butler is his durability, his toughness. It's not just that he went on IR last year, he's had other serious medical issues in his history. For example, I think he's on medication indefinitely for stomach/bowel problems which untreated prevented him in the past from retaining adequate body weight/mass to play in the NFL football as an Olineman ?

[otisbean]

Originally Posted by welsh texan

I wonder if the cleats also have an impact on this, as technology allows a more flexible, lightweight shoe to be manufactured, we've seen a lot of injuries become more and more common. One has been the metatarsal injury in soccer, and I'm sure Schaubs lisfranc injury occured in a similar way to how the metatarsal injury would.

Maybe increased flexibility throughout the foot itself leads to added strain on the ankles?

Im not sure on that, the foot is a tricky thing. Lot's of different theories, some like supportive orthotics, some favor minimalist shoe design to allow the intrinsic muscles to work. To me it makes sense to allow the muscles of the feet to do their job, BUT with cleats and the pressure points they would cause, this might be a bad thing???

I can tell you this, if I owned a sports teams and had hundreds of millions of dollars invested in players I would invest millions in strength and conditioning, injury prevention and rehabilitation, and have the best medical staff that money could buy. I'd want to protect my investment as much as possible.

[CloakNNNdagger]

Originally Posted by otisbean

Great couple of posts Doc! I've read that the excessive taping to the ankles is a root cause of the high ankle sprain, which to my understanding is a more severe injury than a lower ankle sprain. I've also read that excessive taping of the ankle can cause added knee stress. I'd love to hear your thoughts.

From my perspective as a Strength Coach, I know the joints alternate from mobility to stability throughout the body, a mobility joint has a fairly wide ROM capability while a stability joint has a more limited, for example the ankle is a "mobility" joint while the knee is a "stability" joint. From a movement screening perspective, when there is restriction in a mobility joint it will cause stress in the nearest stability as the body seeks to gain motion from somewhere. This can force a joint to do more than it was meant to do. With my clients, if they have generic knee pain (stiff, sore knees) if I work regain proper motion of the 2 nearest mobility joints, hip and ankle, their knee pain seems to ease quite a bit.

As a 30+ year football fan, it seems as if the high ankle sprain is a relatively new occurrence, but it could be that we just get waaay more info now than we used to.

OB, you’ve brought up a concept which is unfortunately so often ignored by those who should know better........that is, the concept of “mobility” and “stability” joints. This plays a major role in a subject that I’ve brought up numerous times in discussions of joint injuries...........i.e., when one joint is injured and not given adequate time to heal, risk of injury to an adjacent or contralateral joint increases immensely. The concept you have brought up goes a long way in explaining the serious contributor to this phenomenon.
And, yes, I firmly stand by the thinking that excessive ankle taping can and does lead to undue stress and risk to especially knee injury. Taping an ankle is actually much more inhibitive then an ankle brace, because it is wrapped so much tighter around the ankle. When you try to move laterally (side to side), your ankle will be protected from another sprain. But your knee will be at a high risk for an ACL tear since, outside of flexion and extension, the ligaments in the knee cannot move very far without tearing. If the ankle is all taped up and your body cannot get the lateral mobility from the ankle, it will move up to the next joint (the knee) and get it there. Unfortunately, since the knee is not mobile, it will simply move outside it’s natural and safe range of motion and one of the ligaments can easily tear.



Furthermore, relying on taping will actually weaken the muscle and hinder rehab of the related muscle groups. Just as you do with your clients, it is wisest to make them rely mostly on strengthening their”supporting” muscles, not tape or a brace, to rehab them quicker and safer. That’s where they will regain their ROM and gain protection from recurrent injury most predictably and most quickly.

BTW, a perfect example of not adhering to these principles in the “real” world, is the frequent use by grocery workers, warehouse stockers, and heavy laborers of those G-d awful wide black belts with suspenders meant to protect the back. These have been shown to weaken the back, since the back muscles are not forced to strengthen, and, in fact, to result in the opposite effect of which they were meant.

[steelbtexan]

Originally Posted by DocBar

Not picking on you, SBT, but these kind of comments irritate me. It would be more accurate, imo, to say I would spend a 1-3 round pick on an OT if there's one rated that high when we pick. Just drafting a player at a need position at a specific spot is just asking for trouble.
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Yo're not hurting my feelings, I agree with your premise. There is value in rds 1-3. I should've made my thoughts clear. Guys like Brandon Brooks, Jeff Allen, Cordy Glenn, James Brown etc... represent great vlue in rds 1-3 IMHO and the good thing is that each of these guys can play either the RG/RT position. So drafting versatile guys like this is killing 2 birds with 1 stone.