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Old 03-19-2012   #41
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Default Re: Williams vs Brown

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
No worries!! By the time we face the Bills, Mario will be hampered by Plantar Fasciitis, a sports hernia, maybe pectoral issues.......... or Something!
ahem...I believe the correct medical term is "torn boobie muscle"...I'm sure CnD can back me up on this.
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Old 03-19-2012   #42
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Default Re: Williams vs Brown

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Originally Posted by NastyNate View Post
You are all delusional. Name the last game/person Duane Brown surrendered a sack against... Okay I'm still waiting... Okay still waiting... that's what I thought. 600+ pass attempts strong and not a single sack surrendered, you're all drunk. Duane Brown is the real deal, would make Mario a non-factor for 60 minutes no problem.
Add the fact that we played what? 6 of 2011's top ten defenses? Duane Brown ain't chopped liver.

At the same time, Mario ain't the punk many around here would have you believe. Mario may sack Tj Yates (or whoever our QB will be for the game) twice.... Texans may still win & we'll say Brown owned.

Mario may force three fumbles & return one for a TD, but with no sacks, we'll say Brown owned.

Mario may shut off the run game to his side, Texans still win & we'll say Brown owned.

This is a Texans' board, so if we're going to go by popular opinion at the end of the game, I'm going to say with certainty, that Duane Brown will win the "battle"

Butt (I hear Dreadhead likes those things) I know I'm going to be watching a hell of a game for this matchup alone. Best against the best, the way it's supposed to be.
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Old 03-19-2012   #43
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Default Re: Williams vs Brown

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Originally Posted by Seņor Stan View Post
ahem...I believe the correct medical term is "torn boobie muscle"...I'm sure CnD can back me up on this.


Doc, any thoughts?
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Old 03-19-2012   #44
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Default Re: Williams vs Brown

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
Are you trying to say that being voted to pro bowls is some way of saying a player is really good? That's a hoot. The pro bowl is nothing but a popularity contest. Guys having suck seasons go every single year based on name recognition.

What has MW shown you that makes you think he's well above average at his position?
Why not go ahead and list who you think are the best DE's in the league and post their 6 year stats on here? You'll be surprised at how far MW is from being elite at his position.
Nice to ignore all-pro (which isn't a popularity contest) and the rest of the NFLs interest that caused the Bills to make him the highest paid defensive player.

I would be shocked if Duane Brown will be made the highest paid left tackle, and not just because he takes less to stay here.
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Old 03-19-2012   #45
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Default Re: Williams vs Brown

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Originally Posted by noxiousdog View Post
Nice to ignore all-pro (which isn't a popularity contest) and the rest of the NFLs interest that caused the Bills to make him the highest paid defensive player.
Don't forget top 100 player.

There are 32 teams in the NFL, 53 men on each roster. For a total of 1,696 players. Mario is considered by many to be in the top 5%

That looks something like elite to me.
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Old 03-19-2012   #46
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Default Re: Williams vs Brown

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Originally Posted by noxiousdog View Post
Right. Mario has been to 2 pro-bowls and 3 all-pro teams (2 firsts, 1 second) and was made the highest paid defensive player in football.

It's not close by any standard.

I can see letting him go, but can we please stop pretending he's just 'better than average'
2 All-pros. 2007 & 2008. Since his first all-pro season 2007's 14 sacks (12 in 2008), his numbers have steadily declined every year.

The Bills stepped completely outside their minds paying an oft injured player that kind of money.

Carlos Lee thinks Mario's deal is ridiculous!
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Old 03-19-2012   #47
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Default Re: Williams vs Brown

Stop talking about Mario. He is not a Texan anymore.
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Old 03-19-2012   #48
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Default Re: Williams vs Brown

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
2 All-pros. 2007 & 2008. Since his first all-pro season 2007's 14 sacks (12 in 2008), his numbers have steadily declined every year.

The Bills stepped completely outside their minds paying an oft injured player that kind of money.

Carlos Lee thinks Mario's deal is ridiculous!
You make good points.

We've got this other guy on our team who accumulated 1,575 receiving yards in 2008. Since then, it's been a steady decline. 1,569 in 2009, 1,216 in 2010m & a mere 492 yards in 2011. This guy has missed significant time over the last two years; 3 games in 2010, & 9 games in 2011 (maybe that's why his numbers have declined, but I can't put two & two together, so I don't know).....

the guy is a shadow of his former self. Declining production & can't stay on the field. Every time he runs down the field or catches the ball, I cringe with what might happen.

We should maximize his value right now & trade him away.

Thanks for showing me the light Bill.
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Old 03-19-2012   #49
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Default Re: Williams vs Brown

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Originally Posted by ckhouston View Post
Stop talking about Mario. He is not a Texan anymore.
We're not. We're talking about how our two tackles will destroy an over-paid, often injured defensive end.
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Old 03-19-2012   #50
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Default Re: Williams vs Brown

Bills are going to a have a pretty stout D-Line this season. I hope Wade doesn't dismiss Mario as much as the Texans Talk faithful seems to be.
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Old 03-19-2012   #51
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Originally Posted by Iceman16 View Post
I answered your question. Mario is better at his respective position. Though if you want to get technical, in pretty much every single situation a tackle is going to stop the opposing defensive end from getting a pressure, hurry and/or sack on the majority of possessions in a game, so Duane would win more battles than not.
I don't think you can say Mario is better at his position than Brown is at his... Brown is an elite left tackle, Mario is a very good DE (could be elite if he can stay healthy and stop getting those nagging injuries)... To be quite honest with you, i think before Mario went on IR this past season he was playing better at OLB than he ever has at DE...jmo

As for the rest, i'm pretty sure we all understand who would win the majority of "plays", so no explanation was needed, we're not all dumbasses... We know it's a whole game... With 35 passing plays and Brown winning 30 of those it's still a loss overall for Brown if the QB is sacked twice and rushed/pressured heavily three times with knockdowns in each...

I think Brown wins 3 out of 5...
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Old 03-19-2012   #52
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Default Re: Williams vs Brown

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Originally Posted by WolverineFan View Post
Bills have already said they're going to utilize Mario as a LE. That means he's going to be going up against Butler...and he's going to own that battle.
Hold on just a minute there, partner...

We all know that the guy locking down Mario is going to be Owen Daniels. After all, Mario can't beat TEs blocking him, right?
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Old 03-20-2012   #53
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Default Re: Williams vs Brown

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Originally Posted by noxiousdog View Post
Nice to ignore all-pro (which isn't a popularity contest) and the rest of the NFLs interest that caused the Bills to make him the highest paid defensive player.

I would be shocked if Duane Brown will be made the highest paid left tackle, and not just because he takes less to stay here.
He plays a position that's in high demand. I never said MW sucked. I've consistently said he's above average. It's nice of you to ignore how he compares to other DE's who are or were considered elite. MW pales in comparison.
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Old 03-20-2012   #54
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Default Re: Williams vs Brown

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
He plays a position that's in high demand. I never said MW sucked. I've consistently said he's above average. It's nice of you to ignore how he compares to other DE's who are or were considered elite. MW pales in comparison.
Mario pales when you compare single season sack stats. Check Mario out against the run, there isn't a DE that plays the position better. Check out Mario's sacks per game, he's on par with Peppers.
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Old 03-20-2012   #55
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Default Re: Williams vs Brown

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Mario pales when you compare single season sack stats. Check Mario out against the run, there isn't a DE that plays the position better. Check out Mario's sacks per game, he's on par with Peppers.
Check out the links I listed before in this thread in post #37. Compare MW to "elite" DE's and he's exactly what I said: above average, but certainly not elite.
EDIT: I also happen to think that Peppers is above average but not elite. Just because some team decides to break the bank to get a player doesn't make that player elite. Look around the league at the number of players that are paid far above their performance.
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Old 03-20-2012   #56
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Default Re: Williams vs Brown

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Originally Posted by noxiousdog View Post
Nice to ignore all-pro (which isn't a popularity contest) and the rest of the NFLs interest that caused the Bills to make him the highest paid defensive player.

I would be shocked if Duane Brown will be made the highest paid left tackle, and not just because he takes less to stay here.
Mario is a great player! I'm a little miffed he didn't take less for a chance at being on a legendary defense but you are selling Duane short here.

He was a elite LT last season. He's not made any all-pros but trust me, Olinemen get those rewards on recognition. He's a 2nd team All-pro and once people realize how dominant a linemen is he will get voted into these pro-bowls and all pro teams by default.

Duane is I think a better player than Mario and I wanted Mario back and yada yada all that. But Duane dominated any pass rusher that came his way including guys who have dominated tackles for their whole career.
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Old 03-20-2012   #57
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Default Re: Williams vs Brown

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Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
He plays a position that's in high demand. I never said MW sucked. I've consistently said he's above average. It's nice of you to ignore how he compares to other DE's who are or were considered elite. MW pales in comparison.
If he pales, why did he get Julius Peppers money while other players at his position didn't?
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Old 03-20-2012   #58
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Default Re: Williams vs Brown

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Originally Posted by fiasco west View Post
He was a elite LT last season. He's not made any all-pros but trust me, Olinemen get those rewards on recognition. He's a 2nd team All-pro and once people realize how dominant a linemen is he will get voted into these pro-bowls and all pro teams by default.

Duane is I think a better player than Mario and I wanted Mario back and yada yada all that. But Duane dominated any pass rusher that came his way including guys who have dominated tackles for their whole career.

He did great. I don't even have a problem with people saying Duane is better, though I disagree. It's certainly within the realm of possibility. Mario's certainly not 50% better which is the salary commitment it would have taken.

But the 'no comparison' argument is ludicrous. Both are borderline elite by the people who are paid to make the decisions. And while it only takes one organization to make a dumb offer, it's not like that wasn't the consensus (except for a bunch of sour grapes here) opinion.
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Old 03-20-2012   #59
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Default Re: Williams vs Brown

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
You make good points.

We've got this other guy on our team who accumulated 1,575 receiving yards in 2008. Since then, it's been a steady decline. 1,569 in 2009, 1,216 in 2010m & a mere 492 yards in 2011. This guy has missed significant time over the last two years; 3 games in 2010, & 9 games in 2011 (maybe that's why his numbers have declined, but I can't put two & two together, so I don't know).....

the guy is a shadow of his former self. Declining production & can't stay on the field. Every time he runs down the field or catches the ball, I cringe with what might happen.

We should maximize his value right now & trade him away.

Thanks for showing me the light Bill.
You make excellent points TK....

At least Mario has a couple of double-digit sack seasons.
This guy has never recorded a double-digit TD season in his nine-year career.

I will admit this dude has made it to the Pro-Bowl five times....
oh wait, I forgot... "The pro bowl is nothing but a popularity contest. Guys having suck seasons go every single year based on name recognition."

How much longer before they unload this dude?

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Old 03-20-2012   #60
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Default Re: Williams vs Brown

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Originally Posted by noxiousdog View Post
If he pales, why did he get Julius Peppers money while other players at his position didn't?
Simple, because the Bills needed to spend their way back into relevancy and needed to ignite their fanbase (evidenced by season ticket sales), thus overspending for one of the top free-agents this offseason.
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