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View Poll Results: Who gets more sacks next season?
Mario 38 45.78%
Barwin 45 54.22%
Voters: 83. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-17-2012   #41
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

Honestly, I feel like those who picked Mario either a) are homers, or b) believe Mario will get injured.

I understand where argument b comes from. He's had a history of injuries, and if he does get injured (even if it's not IR, just one of those nagging ones he always has), then Barwin has a good chance of winning out.

But if Mario stays healthy, I dont think Barwin has much of a chance. Another thing you'd have to hope for is that Barwin will improve, not regress. He's had one good season, no telling if that's a trend or an oddity.
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Old 03-17-2012   #42
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Barwin...Mario is no longer on the team...I could care less about him at this point...Barwin is the f'n man...
I'm good with Mario leaving the team, but I'm no fool to think Barwin will lead the league in sacks. He's just not that kind of athlete.

Not that I think Mario will lead the league in sacks, just saying I'm sure there will be plenty of players who will have more sacks than Barwin.

For the second time in his career, Mario will have teammates that will prevent QBs from stepping up into the pocket with ease. Last time that was the case, Mario averaged 1 sack per game.

Even though this scheme will lift Barwin above his own ability, he is no Demarcus Ware, no Shawn Merriman.

Watt is going to have to be our primary hell raiser, Barwin, Smith, & Reed are merely role players.
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Old 03-17-2012   #43
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
Screw Williams... Watt is the guy who we need to be clearing cap space for whenever he's due up for a new contract. He's well worth a LOT more than Mario Williams was... he actually has a knack for coming up big in big games. In fact this thread very well could be called.. "who ends next season with more sacks, J.J. Watt or Mario Williams".
Ridiculous. A 3-4 DE will never command $16M/yr
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Old 03-17-2012   #44
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

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Name me the DEs who have elevated crappy teams to success all on their own. Are the Colts a crappy team without Freeney or without Manning? Did Charles Haley make the early '90s Cowboys or was it Aikman, Smith, Irwin, Novacek, Johnson, Sanders, Norton, etc.?
Reggie White for one... and the Bills went to 4 straight SBs with Bruce Smith.

But all of that isn't even the point that I was trying to make. I'm not even talking about total team success... I was talking about just the defensive side of the ball. During the time that Mario played here, he never elevated Houston into being a top defense of even a top pass rushing team. People may not want to hear it, but it's the truth.. That guy disappeared when it mattered most and no way in hell is he worth 100 million dollars...glad to see him go to be honest and J.J. Watt is MUCH better. Glad we didn't waste the cap space on him. The knock on him coming out of college was his motor and he definitely lived up to that criticism.

Like I said... he just joined the NFL witness protection program and R.I.P. Mario Williams.. you won't hear much from him from hear on out except when he's padding his stats after teams have already ran up the score on the Bills.
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Old 03-17-2012   #45
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Ridiculous. A 3-4 DE will never command $16M/yr
Umm, I never said Watt would get "16 m/yr" did I? I strictly said Watt is worth more than Mario Williams... because he's a MUCH better player and plays big in big games. J.J. Watt is >>> than Mario Williams. and in case you missed it, I said Mario isn't nearly worth the contract that he just signed... no player is worth that type of money. Any Texan (outside of a HOF caliber QB) who even attempts to demand that type of contract promptly needs to be shown the door and the only mistake Houston made was they didn't do it sooner. They wasted valuable FA time chasing after Mario. However kudos to them for not tying their rope to the anchor that is Mario Williams' contract...
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Old 03-17-2012   #46
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
Umm, I never said Watt would get "16 m/yr" did I? I strictly said Watt is worth more than Mario Williams... because he's a MUCH better player and plays big in big games. J.J. Watt is >>> than Mario Williams. and in case you missed it, I said Mario isn't nearly worth the contract that he just signed... no player is worth that type of money. Any Texan (outside of a HOF caliber QB) who even attempts to demand that type of contract promptly needs to be shown the door and the only mistake Houston made was they didn't do it sooner. They wasted valuable FA time chasing after Mario. However kudos to them for not tying their rope to the anchor that is Mario Williams' contract...
Well, let me put it to you this way.

NO one will "accidentally" give Jj Watt $16M/yr.
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Old 03-17-2012   #47
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

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Originally Posted by buddyboy View Post
Honestly, I feel like those who picked Mario either a) are homers, or b) believe Mario will get injured.

I understand where argument b comes from. He's had a history of injuries, and if he does get injured (even if it's not IR, just one of those nagging ones he always has), then Barwin has a good chance of winning out.

But if Mario stays healthy, I dont think Barwin has much of a chance. Another thing you'd have to hope for is that Barwin will improve, not regress. He's had one good season, no telling if that's a trend or an oddity.
I'm going to assume you meant to say Barwin... and if that's the case, how the heck does that make people who picked Barwin homers?

LOL... Do you guys even realize that Mario Williams hasn't had a double digit sack season since the 2008 season? Do y'all even realize that in Mario's 6 year career he's only finished with double digit sack seasons twice?

Seriously... all Barwin has to do is do what he did last year (which is have a double digit sack season) and he stands a very realistic chance at winning this debate. People need to get off the Mario Williams fluffer train.. the guy isn't the bee's knees and he didn't rope the moon either... he's VERY replaceable and Barwin can easily have a better season than him and it doesn't make someone a "homer" for saying as much... It just makes them people who have a different opinion than you. (BTW.. this is coming from someone who voted for Mario in this poll)

Last edited by Carr Bombed; 03-18-2012 at 12:46 PM.
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Old 03-17-2012   #48
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Well, let me put it to you this way.

NO one will "accidentally" give Jj Watt $16M/yr.
Great... That bodes well for us then, that means we'll be able to lock up a player who's >>> than Mario Williams and a player who's on the field play is >>> and worth more than Mario Williams.
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Old 03-17-2012   #49
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

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Reggie White for one... and the Bills went to 4 straight SBs with Bruce Smith.

But all of that isn't even the point that I was trying to make. I'm not even talking about total team success... I was talking about just the defensive side of the ball.
Yeah and you are making a joke of your point. You pick two of the greatest DEs in NFL history and with neither can you seriously assert they single handed lifted a bad D to prominence. Yeah, the Bills went four straight times to the SB - how many did they win? In the end who had the better D, them or the Cowboys? Remember the names of the Cowboys' DEs? Much less that Bills team was renowned for O not D. But for a bone-headed play the Bills would have given up more points in playoff history than any other team. As it was they got 52 hung on them.
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Old 03-17-2012   #50
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

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I'm good with Mario leaving the team, but I'm no fool to think Barwin will lead the league in sacks. He's just not that kind of athlete.
I think Mario could have been special with us, but I think he's going to be above average in Buffalo.
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Old 03-18-2012   #51
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

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Honestly, I feel like those who picked Mario either a) are homers, or b) believe Mario will get injured.

I understand where argument b comes from. He's had a history of injuries, and if he does get injured (even if it's not IR, just one of those nagging ones he always has), then Barwin has a good chance of winning out.

But if Mario stays healthy, I dont think Barwin has much of a chance. Another thing you'd have to hope for is that Barwin will improve, not regress. He's had one good season, no telling if that's a trend or an oddity.
I had a difficult time not picking MW in this poll - He's a hell of a player. It came down to whats around him not being enough. Teams couldnt effectively double team him with the talent surrounding him here. That wont be the case in Barfalo.
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Old 03-18-2012   #52
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

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I had a difficult time not picking MW in this poll - He's a hell of a player. It came down to whats around him not being enough. Teams couldnt effectively double team him with the talent surrounding him here. That wont be the case in Barfalo.
With Kyle Williams & Marcell Dareus I think the front 4 will be ok. I worry about their pass defense though.
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Old 03-18-2012   #53
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

by Lance Zierlein
LINK

Mario's weaknesses

Mario’s awareness out on the field is average at best and there are times he just doesn’t seem to show very good football instincts at all.

While Mario’s bull rush is a solid weapon, unfortunately, it has been his primary weapon for most of his career. Despite having some solid defensive line coaches, he has been very slow to add to his pass rush repertoire. There is no excuse for Mario not to have developed a club move as his go-to inside pass rush. Mario doesn’t have the footwork to utilize a spin move (I’ve seen him try … it’s not pretty) so that club move is a must if Mario Williams is ever going to develop a mature outside/inside pass rush attack.

There are questions about how much Mario Williams loves football. He has buddies who he rides (motorcycles) with who seem to believe that football is what he does for a living but it isn’t what he loves. That bothers me I think it is important that your core players eat and sleep football and that they love it. Mario has never really been that guy.

Despite having immense physical tools, Mario hasn’t really dominated as many games as you would like. Granted, he’s been on some defensive lines that have been highly paid but ineffective, but Texans fans simply haven’t seen him dominate a game very often. I think a big part of that is mental, too. He has the tools to do it, but he needs to have a fire lit under him from time to time.

Mario is more of a follower than a leader. That is fine if Buffalo has the right leadership on that defensive line, but he’s never looked comfortable with the role of being “the guy.” Even when he had his best seasons in 2007 and 2008, it really had no bearing on the overall play of the defense and there weren’t enough teammates raising the level of their play. I think Mario likes to play next to guys who are highly motivated and he takes his cues from that. We saw that this year. If Marcel Dareus can be that Alpha Dog, then there is a good chance that Mario will follow suit. It’s not a necessarily a weakness, but it is somewhat rare with players being paid like Mario.

There are concerns over whether or not Mario Williams can stay healthy. There is a reason that Mario hasn’t hit double digits in sacks for three straight years – injuries. In 2009, he is said to have had a shoulder injury that he was battling throughout the season. In 2010, Mario had a sports hernia that was an issue from the preseason all the way through the first 13 games. At that point, Williams shut it down and had surgery. In 2011, Mario played in only five games after tearing his pectoral muscle and missing the rest of the season.


To read his list of strengths follow the link at the top.

This is pretty much what I and a few others have been saying all along.
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Old 03-18-2012   #54
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

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With Kyle Williams & Marcell Dareus I think the front 4 will be ok. I worry about their pass defense though.
Yeah , those corners arent very good .... If QB's are able to get the ball out before the rush gets there , then you dont get many sacks.

I would have liked for MW to stay ..... but man , that contract was just too good to pass up. Wish the guy luck unless he's playing the Texans.
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Old 03-18-2012   #55
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

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Yeah and you are making a joke of your point. You pick two of the greatest DEs in NFL history and with neither can you seriously assert they single handed lifted a bad D to prominence. Yeah, the
given up more points in playoff history than any other team. As it was they got 52 hung on them.
Actually.. I'm not making a joke of my point, if any thing im making a joke of your post. You asked me to list DEs who elevated their team and I did... speaking of which, I can't believe you really disregarded the bills just because they didn't win a SB...after reaching 4 straight.. that's a joke in itself
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Old 03-18-2012   #56
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

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I would have liked for MW to stay ..... but man , that contract was just too good to pass up. Wish the guy luck unless he's playing the Texans.
Agreed. I wanted him back as well, but thought it prudent to put a number out there, so it wouldn't look like flip-flopping. I wanted to sign him at $12M/yr, but willing to go as high as $14M/yr. At $14M/yr I would have thought I was over-paying (since I valued him at $12M/yr).

He signed for $16M/yr a figure I said I did not want to pay. I think Rick did good here, however, from the way we have heard it went down, I still don't think he handled it correctly.
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Old 03-18-2012   #57
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

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Actually.. I'm not making a joke of my point, if any thing im making a joke of your post. You asked me to list DEs who elevated their team and I did... speaking of which, I can't believe you really disregarded the bills just because they didn't win a SB...after reaching 4 straight.. that's a joke in itself
He asked for two DEs who elevated their team all by their lonesome. You added two great DEs who were parts of great teams.

You did not name a DE with poor safeties, & corners or who had problems getting pressure up the middle. & like Infantrycak said, the Buffalo Bills got to the Super Bowl 4 times on the strength of their offense, not their defense (which gave up 38 points to a Houston team in one half of football & 'cak mentioned that defense giving up 52 to another team).
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Old 03-18-2012   #58
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

Next year when the season ends both Barwin and Reed will have better numbers than Mario. Its the scheme, not the man, and Wade is the best in the league period. We do not have to worry about our defense, but we are going into next year exactly where we left off last year, with no legitimate NFL starting QB. Stay tuned ...
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Old 03-18-2012   #59
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

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We do not have to worry about our defense, but we are going into next year exactly where we left off last year, with no legitimate NFL starting QB. Stay tuned ...
Try to stay on topic.
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Old 03-18-2012   #60
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Agreed. I wanted him back as well, but thought it prudent to put a number out there, so it wouldn't look like flip-flopping. I wanted to sign him at $12M/yr, but willing to go as high as $14M/yr. At $14M/yr I would have thought I was over-paying (since I valued him at $12M/yr).

He signed for $16M/yr a figure I said I did not want to pay. I think Rick did good here, however, from the way we have heard it went down, I still don't think he handled it correctly.


How could he have handled it any differently. They made him an offer , he took a significantly better offer .... Had then gone any higher , they would have really been in a bind next season when multiple starters become UFA's.


I believe Smith made his best offer from the get go .... knowing he couldnt go higher and that even this offer would make life difficult going forward should it be accepted.

What better way to handle the situation than to get it out of the way one way or another and move on to the next thing on the agenda?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
Try to stay on topic.
The class of 2011 isnt our best.
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