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View Poll Results: Who gets more sacks next season?
Mario 38 45.78%
Barwin 45 54.22%
Voters: 83. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-17-2012   #21
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
This is coming from one of Reed's biggest fans (which is the reason why I never shed a tear over Mario Williams from the second he went down to injury and has now left)...

What exactly do you have against a player who notched 11.5 sacks in only his second full season while playing a new position? You act like Barwin is a finished product or something and he's not. The guy was productive as a rookie too, despite being considered a project... He had to sit out pretty much his entire sohpmore season in the league due to injury, had to move to a new position (yes his natural NFL positon is OLB) and threw up 11.5 sacks year one at that position. Why do you hate the guy? and why do you give Reed props for "having no NFL I.Q" when he played his entire college career on defense... while Barwin only played one single season on that side of the ball? Like he was some expert at NFL defensive schemes when he came into the league

Seriously in the above post, you try to pimp Reed's (a player that I am EXTREMELY high on) 6 sacks during his rookie season, a season where he started 11 freaking games... yet when Barwin was able to post 4.5 sacks as a rookie, despite starting 0 games and posted the SAME EXACT sack total that Mario posted in 16 starts as a rookie... that gets no mention??? what gives?

So 11 less starts and only 1.5 less sacks than Reed isn't worth mentioning??? I guess matching Mario's rookie sack total in 16 less starts ins't worth mentioning as well either huh?

i'll leave the mario thing alone so as not to derail yet another thread.

But with Reed & Barwin, it's just an eye test thing...everything else falls in behind that.

There's just nothing that jumps out to me about Barwin & what he does. Last year he was basically making zero impact....until he switched over to WOLB when mario went down.

Meanwhile Reed comes in, shows exceptional burst coming off the edge & was leading the team in sacks 1/2 way through the season despite not starting the 1st 5. Only until Barwin was switched to WOLB & got that layup game against Jax did he overtake Reed.

Then in the playoffs, Reed not Barwin was the guy of the 2 who was making the most noise. He just looks more natural as a pass rusher out there & that's not something that is taught but learned over years of doing it. & by NFL IQ i just meant getting a feel for the NFL speed and things NFL teams do to cross you up.......things you can only learn by actually playing in the game on this level. Barwin obviously had more of that going into the season than Reed & yet Reed was able to hold his own despite him switching positions midway through the season. Tough on both of them for sure, but that much tougher for reed just b/c he's a rookie.

This is why i called you out on the technique thing. Barwin hasn't played enough at the position to have shown better technique than mario as both guys were new to the position. His rookie season he was obviously raw, 2nd season he didn't play, this 3rd season he showed what he could do, but at no point did i see a guy who showed this great technique you're talking about. When did he develop this in rehab in 2010 lol.

Barwin = can do alot of things well...= athlete
Mario/Reed = talented pass rushers and pass rushing = a talent that if developed properly can put you as the very best in the game. I can't see that with Barwin.

you don't necessarily have to be 1 to be the other. The 2 can be mutually exclusive.

Last edited by Mr teX; 03-17-2012 at 02:10 AM.
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Old 03-17-2012   #22
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
i'll leave the Mario thing alone so as not to derail yet another thread.

But with Reed & Barwin, it's just an eye test thing...everything else falls in behind that.
Like I said...I'm EXTREMELY HIGH on Reed.. Truth be told, I think he has a higher ceiling than Barwin.. He can do everything Barwin can do. He can match his speed and has a greater pass rush pedigree entering the league (much more strength and bullrush ability).. and I think he's much more instinctive.. Playing his entire career as a college pass rusher will serve him well and gives him a upper hand over Barwin, but that's no knock on Barwin. My praise of Barwin isn't a knock against Reed..I'm simply giving Barwin his due. I was ecstatic when we drafted Reed and we hit a home run when we drafted him... I just feel we also hit a homerun with Barwin as well.

The most impressive thing I saw with Reed wasn't his run defense (which was EXCELLENT) or his pass rushing skills (which was EXCELLENT)... it was his fumble recoveries... This kid is going to be our "clean up player" and is "that guy" who'll always have his nose around the ball. People need to get the hell over Mario Williams (I was well over him before the season even ended). He's gone and we have more than enough to replace him with. He have scrappers and scrapers, mallers and ballers.. expect another top 3 round pick being spent at the front 7 and he'll be scary as well... In Wade we trust.

Last edited by Carr Bombed; 03-17-2012 at 02:07 AM.
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Old 03-17-2012   #23
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

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More importantly. Are we going to find a better NT to replace Cody?



Cody has been their most consistent DL over the past two seasons - He's not a world beater but he's a bargin at his current pricetag.

They also have Earl Mitchell behind him and he was improving as the season wore on.

How bout they solve their OL issues and upgrade the WR spot before looking to replace a guy who's done nothing but produce .... Or are you Ok with Shelley Smith @ OG? (You heard it here first).
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Old 03-17-2012   #24
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
i'll leave the mario thing alone so as not to derail yet another thread.

But with Reed & Barwin, it's just an eye test thing...everything else falls in behind that.

There's just nothing that jumps out to me about Barwin & what he does. Last year he was basically making zero impact....until he switched over to WOLB when mario went down.

Meanwhile Reed comes in, shows exceptional burst coming off the edge & was leading the team in sacks 1/2 way through the season despite not starting the 1st 5. Only until Barwin was switched to WOLB & got that layup game against Jax did he overtake Reed.

Then in the playoffs, Reed not Barwin was the guy of the 2 who was making the most noise. He just looks more natural as a pass rusher out there & that's not something that is taught but learned over years of doing it. & by NFL IQ i just meant getting a feel for the NFL speed and things NFL teams do to cross you up.......things you can only learn by actually playing in the game on this level. Barwin obviously had more of that going into the season than Reed & yet Reed was able to hold his own despite him switching positions midway through the season. Tough on both of them for sure, but that much tougher for reed just b/c he's a rookie.

This is why i called you out on the technique thing. Barwin hasn't played enough at the position to have shown better technique than mario as both guys were new to the position. His rookie season he was obviously raw, 2nd season he didn't play, this 3rd season he showed what he could do, but at no point did i see a guy who showed this great technique you're talking about. When did he develop this in rehab in 2010 lol.

Barwin = can do alot of things well...= athlete
Mario/Reed = talented pass rushers and pass rushing = a talent that if developed properly can put you as the very best in the game. I can't see that with Barwin.

you don't necessarily have to be 1 to be the other. The 2 can be mutually exclusive.

WTH... I responded to this post almost a hour ago... If you're going to edit it and completely change it, you might as well post a new post...
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Old 03-17-2012   #25
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
WTH... I responded to this post almost a hour ago... If you're going to edit it and completely change it, you might as well post a new post...
Lol, not really a change just an addition...lol. I'm tying from my I-pad & sometimes when i'm responding to a post, it'll just close the "reply to thread" box and i have to start my post all over again. So i have to brief at times...but i can take all the time i need when i edit b/c it doesn't seem to close the box unexpectedly when i edit my posts.
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Old 03-17-2012   #26
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

Am I the only one that thinks Mario is no great shakes as a passrusher? The biggest thing Mario has ever shown is potential. That's not all bad, as it's netted him a cool $100 mil but it's not all that great for the team that has to pay him.
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Old 03-17-2012   #27
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

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Old 03-17-2012   #28
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

Mario Williams went to a team running a 4-3 in need of a DE. People said he was mispositioned here and by his decision, they were right.

As far as Barwin, Reed and Watt, they are all strong and, hopefully getting stronger.
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Old 03-17-2012   #29
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

I noticed this a lot with Watt and Reed. Compared to Williams, Watt and Reed do not try and bury their shoulder into the blocker and engage in a physical shoving match. Instead they stay upright, and distance themselves from the blocker using their hands to keep the blocker away and using their leverage and quick feet to beat their man one on one. Mario is all about the edge power dip your shoulder and engage the blocker body to body. Frankly he became boring to watch some games because the blocker was able to push him out of the play and he never adjusted.

It's a case of quickness and balance being > strength and balance. Also, I don't recall Mario doing much with stunts. Guys like Reed and Barwin are quick enough to do shifts Williams couldn't.
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Old 03-17-2012   #30
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

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Mario Williams went to a team running a 4-3 in need of a DE. People said he was mispositioned here and by his decision, they were right.

As far as Barwin, Reed and Watt, they are all strong and, hopefully getting stronger.
I seriously doubt the position change back to a 4-3 DE had much if anything at all to do with the decision to load up the Brinks Truck in Barfalo. They gave him $50m guaranteed reasons .....
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Old 03-17-2012   #31
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

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Am I the only one that thinks Mario is no great shakes as a passrusher?
I am going to have to say yes you and a few other hyper-critical Houstonians are being unrealistic. There is a reason several teams were lined up to make him the highest paid defensive player in the league. Before making a $100 mil decision these professionals were going back looking at all sorts of film focusing on Mario. They didn't decide to pursue a "no great shakes" pass rusher.
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Old 03-17-2012   #32
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

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Now that Average Mario has moved on, who ends next season with more sacks, him or Barwin?

Although I don't blame Mario for pulling a "Rod Tidwell", I am a little bitter about him leaving.
Barwin

MW will only be healthy for about 6-8 games.

Although he will play in 12-16 games
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Old 03-17-2012   #33
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

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I am going to have to say yes you and a few other hyper-critical Houstonians are being unrealistic. There is a reason several teams were lined up to make him the highest paid defensive player in the league. Before making a $100 mil decision these professionals were going back looking at all sorts of film focusing on Mario. They didn't decide to pursue a "no great shakes" pass rusher.
Yep.

Put Barwin & Mario on Free Agent list -- Mario got $100 million; Barwin wouldn't come close to that, and he's younger.
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Old 03-17-2012   #34
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

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When you consider who might have the most sacks between MW and Barwin - You have to look at everything around them as well.

Barwin has Antonio Smith and JJ Watt wreaking havoc between him and Reed .... He has Cushing wrecking people in the middle. And .... he has the advantage of Wade Phillips.


What does MW have in Barfalo ? Dave Wannstedt and .... Marcell Dareus switching to a 4-3.



Advantage Barwin.

So you're saying that wannstedt isn't as successful dc as wade? Say what you want about both as head coaches, but go look at wanstedd at dallas,chicago,and miami and tell me about his defense. He knows defense and the bills have 2 studs in the middle and now mario outside. Not to mention,they will be playing with a lot of leads too. If healthy and that's a big if, I think mario is going to have 14+ sacks. If barwin is healthy, I think he'll be at least 10. All this technician and pass rush blah,blah,blah, if anyone would've though barwin was as good as mario with his physical talent,he wouldn't have went in the 2nd rd. I like barwin and I've always thought of him as a joker at olb because of his te stuff. He's going to get better,but as usual poster talking bs when it comes to mario.
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Old 03-17-2012   #35
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

I am unclear/confused/befuddled as to why we would care how many sacks Mario gets next season and why we should compare his numbers to Barwin's ...or any other Texan player's numbers for that matter...

Is off-season THAT boring??
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Old 03-17-2012   #36
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

Mario will have more sacks than Barwin I think (esspecially if he he stays healthy... and let's hope Barwin does as well), but Barwin will play in at least three more games...
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Old 03-17-2012   #37
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

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He said it wasnt about the money...
No, it was about the wings!

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... He isn't the type of player who can elevate a crappy team to any type of success... god knows he couldn't do that here.
There was the time that he, uh, uh...
No wait it was the game against, uh, uh...
Surely you remember when he dominated, uh, uh...
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Old 03-17-2012   #38
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

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... He isn't the type of player who can elevate a crappy team to any type of success... god knows he couldn't do that here.
Name me the DEs who have elevated crappy teams to success all on their own. Are the Colts a crappy team without Freeney or without Manning? Did Charles Haley make the early '90s Cowboys or was it Aikman, Smith, Irwin, Novacek, Johnson, Sanders, Norton, etc.?
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Old 03-17-2012   #39
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

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i am unclear/confused/befuddled as to why we would care how many sacks mario gets next season and why we should compare his numbers to barwin's ...or any other texan player's numbers for that matter...

is off-season that boring??

:d
yes
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Old 03-17-2012   #40
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Default Re: Who ends next season with more sacks Barwin or Average MaIRo?

Barwin hands down! Mario is so screwed! He thinks he has faced so much adversity already. Hahahahaha, guess what Mario, you are the 100 million dollar man now. You better stay healthy and produce or you will be eatin alive. The kiddie gloves are off now.

He no longer has the excuses that he is a rookie or that he is still in a learning curve or that he has bad coaching. It's swim or sink time. He just doesn't have the personality for what he is about to get into. He isn't a bigtime game changer and never will be. People in buffalo are expecting Bruce Smith and instead they are getting a better than average super athlete who will make one or two real good plays a game but very seldom when you need them.

I like Mario and hope he does well but don't see it happening.
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