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Old 06-19-2004   #1
DatTexBoy
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Default Over Anxious

I guess I am the only person who feels this way but I think the Texans could have gotten Jasin Babins in the FREAKIN second round. Let's see who was selected after Babin and if the teams before Houston really had need for him. (ie: 3-4 defense looking for tweener or defensive end). I think he is too small to have played NFL defensive end anyways.

27 27 Houston (from Tennessee) Babin, Jason DE 6-2 260 Western Michigan
28 28 Carolina (from Philadelphia through San Francisco) Gamble, Chris CB 6-1 181 Ohio State
29 29 Atlanta (from Indianapolis) Jenkins, Michael WR 6-4 217 Ohio State
30 30 Detroit (from Kansas City) Jones, Kevin RB 5-11 221 Virginia Tech
31 31 San Francisco (from Carolina) Woods, Rashaun WR 6-2 202 Oklahoma State
32 32 New England Watson, Ben TE 6-3 253 Georgia

S Houston Hollings, Tony RB 5'10 216 Georgia Tech (supplemental choice)
1 33 Arizona Dansby, Karlos OLB 6-3 251 Auburn
2 34 N.Y. Giants Snee, Chris G 6-2 314 Boston College
3 35 San Diego Olshansky, Igor DT 6-5 309 Oregon
4 36 Kansas City (from Detroit) Siavii, Junior DT 6-4 333 Oregon
5 37 Detroit (from Cleveland) Lehman, Teddy OLB 6-1 238 Oklahoma
6 38 Pittsburgh (from Atlanta through Indianapolis) Colclough, Ricardo CB 5-10 186 Tusculum
7 39 Jacksonville Smith, Daryl ILB 6-1 234 Georgia Tech
8 40 Tennessee (from Houston) Troupe, Ben TE 6-4 262 Florida
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Old 06-19-2004   #2
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other teams might have been trying to trade up so CC probably was thinking "better we trade up and make sure we get our guy then somebody else doing it"

He was being compared to Lenord Little and, ironiclly, the Rams could have probably taken him if Steven Jackson wasnt on the board because they lost Grant Wistrom to the Seahawks.

He could have probably played DE, he will with us when we go to 4 down lineman
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Old 06-19-2004   #3
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Well I tend to agree with Fiddy here. Hindsight is 20/20, hell maybe even 20/15. The fact remains that during the draft a GM has to do what is best for his team, and he must follow his instincts. I have much faith in Casserly, and I feel that if he thought a move up was neccessary then it probably was. Don't forget that these teams spend more time than anyone studying up for the draft and trying to figure out what other teams will do on draft day. Babin was a pretty hot prospect coming into the draft so I feel that we really didn't sacrifice that much to get him if CC and DC are as sold on him as I believe them to be.
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Old 06-19-2004   #4
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if we didnt trade up to get him i can almost guarantee you the patriots would have.
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Old 06-20-2004   #5
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I feel you

But......we must understand as fans that the Texans have put together one of the elite organizations in all the NFL and that Casserly knows exactly what to do when he makes a move like this. Yes it would have been icing on the cake to sweat it out until the second pick & hope Babin was still available, and I think Casserly's track record with the Henson deal shows he can play a good hand of poker, so clearly he made the strike when the time warranted.

Two impact, starters as rookies is a quality draft. Plus two impact, starters as free agents afforded the Texans the luxury to make the move
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Old 06-20-2004   #6
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I look at the Babin move as being a really good sign of where the coaches and Casserly think we are right now. That move was not something that a team deeply concerned about it's depth would do. Niether was it the kind of move I would have expected if they were seriously concerned about Seth Payne's recovery.

The Babin pick was a move that a team thinking it's ready to go makes. It's not a "We're just one players away" kind of move but it's close IMO. It's an "Ok, we're going to be in good shape this coming year so lets get this guy we want instead of padding depth in several places"

It inspires confidence in me to see them grabbing Babin and planning on starting him.
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Old 06-24-2004   #7
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Let me re-phrase the weight issue. I think he is too small to play NFL 3-4 defensive end which I know he is not playing here. I'm not saying Babin is a bad player or good player so there was no complaint(_V_). You shouldn't be so defensive over someone you have never seen play either.
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Old 06-24-2004   #8
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He definitely won't play DE in the 3-4, but from what I hear we are going to be playing more 4-3 defense this year than we have in the past. He should be perfect for that.
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Old 06-24-2004   #9
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somebody could make the argurement that the Titans, the team the texans traded with, could possibly have selected Babin, especially since it took 3 DEs of similiar size in the draft.

One way to create depth on a team is to force borderline starters to reserves. The team took that method with its off season instead of adding numbers.
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Old 06-24-2004   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DatTexBoy
I guess I am the only person who feels this way but I think the Texans could have gotten Jasin Babins in the FREAKIN second round ...
S Houston Hollings, Tony RB 5'10 216 Georgia Tech (supplemental choice)
I regard to Babins, I disagree with your analysis. If you watch the alleged 'draft gurus' like Mel Kieper, one thing he always says, which I disagree with, is that a team can trade down and get a 'similar' player later on in the draft. For example, if there are two ends you rate about the same, trade down and take your second choice if your first choice is gone as a result of the trade. The problem with this approach is that the players aren't WIDGETS. If you are investing millions, do you really want the guy you were 'less sure of.'

In many cases, I believe a team is drafting with a 'one of one' mentality and this is particularly true when a team is attempting to accumulate high character guys. A classic example of this was the selection of Antwaan Randle El by the Steelers in 2002. The 'draft experts' had him slotted as a late third or fourth round selection I believe, but the Steelers knew if they didn't take him in the second, he would be gone when they picked in the third. Too high a price? When you are bidding for something, which essentialy the draft is, you often pay more when acquiring 'one of one.' Lot's of quarterbacks try other positions (see the Texans' Lord), but Randle El was considered by most I believe to have been a unique talent and playmaker.

Another example of this 'one of one' in my opinion is Chester Pitts. He was rocketing up the draft boards because of his potential. He was one of one becasue of the combination of character, little 'tread loss on the tires' (started one season in college, didn't play high school) and strength. If you didn't get Chester, there wasn't another one to take later on.

I believe that the Texans felt that Babins was 'one of one' and that they had to pay what they had to pay. There wasn't another one if they missed getting him. Again, I don't just mean another tweener end (a WIDGET), but rather an ideally sized (perhaps a little short), consistent playmaker (all levels of competition), great speed for position, high character and appears to have the instincts to convert to OLB.

We had accumulated picks for a reason ... to use them when there was a unique opportunity.

In regards to Tony Hollings, don't fret about what the Texans could have taken with the 33rd choice. Tony Hollings wasn't really a 33rd choice. The Texans didn't use their own pick, which at the time of the supplimental draft would have been in the first bundle of the second round. They passed. They used the Raiders second round pick, which would have been in the last bundle of picks in the the second round. The Texans took Hollings preferring him to what they thought would be available with a pick around pick 64, not pick 33. Remember, Hollings signed a contract similar to players drafted near the end of the second round, not at the first of the second round. The fact that the Raiders folded and moved the pick up higher doesn't mean the Texans have to pay Hollings more.

... of course we will never know ... perhaps Babin would have lasted as DatTexBoy suggests.
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Old 06-24-2004   #11
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Well TexBoy, I agree with you. But for the sake of minimizing pointless arguments among the Casserly faithful in here, I for the most part keep my comments to myself as far as personnel decisions go. But I do have a bit of advice for you DatTexBoy. First rule, don't ever question a Casserly decision on these boards. All you are doing is asking for every Casserly fan to question your mentality or reasoning for questioning his mentality and or reasoning (or lack thereof). Two, just relax. It's a long season just sit back and watch things unfold. Who knows he could be the next "Freak" (I would only hope so for the teams sake)? Besides I said all I had to say back when this "brilliant" move was made. Hey i'm just your average "Joe Six-Pack" (like most on here despite what they profess) who can't wait for the season to start and want the Texans to win!
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Old 06-24-2004   #12
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Quote:
But I do have a bit of advice for you DatTexBoy. First rule, don't ever question a Casserly decision on these boards. All you are doing is asking for every Casserly fan to question your mentality or reasoning for questioning his mentality and or reasoning (or lack thereof).
I wouldn't care who the GM is--to me going off of pundit ranking sheets for draft picks and then criticizing GM's is generally a silly exercise. The scouting staffs and GM's see a lot more tape and do a lot more investigation than the pundits. They also know a lot more about what type of system they specifically are running so each team may rank people differently. It isn't as if draft prospects have their absolute rank and value tattoed on them somewhere. Plus as Mistral said, if there is a player that is perfect for your team why risk not getting them just to not overpay according to the pundits?
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Old 06-24-2004   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DatTexBoy
I guess I am the only person who feels this way but I think the Texans could have gotten Jasin Babins in the FREAKIN second round. Let's see who was selected after Babin and if the teams before Houston really had need for him.
32 32 New England - NE runs a 34 D
3 35 San Diego - San Diego runs a new 34 D, also
4 36 Kansas City - Brought Babin in for a visit, traded down after he went off the board
6 38 Pittsburgh - Runs a 34 defense
7 39 Jacksonville - Have a poor pash rush, not happy with their DE's

That's 5 teams that could have taken Babin and no one would have batted an eye. Not to mention teams that were behind the Texans at 40. Here's the kicker - Casserly said on the radio during draft day that there were 2 other teams nosing around for a spot to take Babin in the 1st. Unless you want to call Charlie a bald faced liar or you think he was duped, that really settles the matter. Babin wasn't going to be available when the Texans selected at #40.

Maybe Casserly does have a little "sacred cow" aura here. But I feel he's earned that due to the positive direction this franchise is heading. Still, if you have a difference of opinion with what the Texans are doing, make your case. But don't be surprised when someone challenges your opinion and you have to defend it.
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Old 06-24-2004   #14
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I thought Atlanta and New England were the two teams that were trying to trade up and take him.
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Old 06-25-2004   #15
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Default I guess I stand corrected...

Thanks to the fan brass I now have a better "understanding" of the pick and why it took so many draft picks to get him. I guess my question really involves how much of a value Babin is and was it worth it. Obviously, Dom Capers felt so so I guess I can trust his judgement. My opinion can be swayed with a solid opposing argument and I can admit if I am wrong or mis-informed; unlike some on this board. I read a lot of post but rarely post any myself but I may have to change that because I just noticed a footnote classifying me on the "practice squad" !!! eek: COME ON!

Thanks for your comments.
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Old 06-25-2004   #16
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Dat Tex Boy post what you feel.
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Old 06-27-2004   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DatTexBoy
Thanks to the fan brass I now have a better "understanding" of the pick and why it took so many draft picks to get him. I guess my question really involves how much of a value Babin is and was it worth it. Obviously, Dom Capers felt so so I guess I can trust his judgement. My opinion can be swayed with a solid opposing argument and I can admit if I am wrong or mis-informed; unlike some on this board. I read a lot of post but rarely post any myself but I may have to change that because I just noticed a footnote classifying me on the "practice squad" !!! eek: COME ON!

Thanks for your comments.
Don't take any comments as don't post here. On the other hand, characterizing anyone with an opposing view as part of the "fan brass" is neither accurate nor reasonable.

Just my opinion, but the GM and coaches have (a) a lot more information than we or the rag sheets have and (b) a specific system they are trying to develop that may favor certain players over others. In addition draft "value" is too uncertain to act like someone made a mistake by not waiting 32 spots on a gamble if they really like a player. Come back in two years--if Babin isn't a star then we did give up too much--before then we just don't know.
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