Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-14-2012   #41
Honoring Earl 34
Hey Koolaid
 
Honoring Earl 34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Houston
Age: 51
Posts: 18,842
Rep Power: 145953 Honoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
This? I quoted you Rotoworld with the excerpt about Schaub's deal. It's plain as day that he got a signing bonus, and it's likely that it was prorated over the entire 6 years of his deal. Did you not get your numbers from Rotoworld's contract database? Because it's pretty obvious that your numbers match up exactly with theirs.



Yeah if you consider 8% of your 15 million in capspace projection insignificant. But that's not all, as I pointed out earlier in the thread, there is 18 million of unaccounted money between Manning and OD's contracts. You nor the OP can tell me exactly how much of that was paid in 2011, nor how much of it will be paid in the future, nor how that money is structured. We simply don't know. I'm willing to bet those two didn't earn 18 million together last year.

Here's another mistake on Rotoworld's numbers:



4 years, 1.852 million. Now we know 101k went to signing bonus, and we know that league minimum is ~400k since he was drafted, then how does he earn 70% of his total contract value in year 4 of it? Was he really paid only 550k over the last 3 years? That can't possibly be true, but it just goes to show that none of these numbers are perfect, and we can't make up the Texans' cap by aggregating all this info.
Something doesn't add up because the Cowboys are spending away and they had money taken away .
__________________
A little about Colleen. She's the brains behind the operation. Magna cum laude from BC, top five in her law school class, so obviously I have a pretty good idea how to recruit, I can tell you that.
Honoring Earl 34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2012   #42
ChampionTexan
Site Contributor
 
ChampionTexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,949
Rep Power: 62987 ChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post

Here's another mistake on Rotoworld's numbers:



4 years, 1.852 million. Now we know 101k went to signing bonus, and we know that league minimum is ~400k since he was drafted, then how does he earn 70% of his total contract value in year 4 of it? Was he really paid only 550k over the last 3 years? That can't possibly be true, but it just goes to show that none of these numbers are perfect, and we can't make up the Texans' cap by aggregating all this info.
I think this is your answer:

Quote:
It's that time of the year again where we look at which players have triggered increases to their 2012 base salaries. These increases can be triggered by reaching certain performance levels or playing-time percentages, or in the case of at least one former Top 10 pick, by a team deciding not to pick up an option bonus.
This ties into Rotoworld's 2012 base salary for McCain.

LINK
__________________
Everyone's an idiot, not just the people with low SAT scores. We're just idiots about different things at different times. No matter how smart you are, you spend much of your day being an idiot.
ChampionTexan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2012   #43
G27RR
WATTch Out!
 
G27RR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 288
Rep Power: 2211 G27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
Did you not get your numbers from Rotoworld's contract database? Because it's pretty obvious that your numbers match up exactly with theirs.
No, I didn't use Rotoworld.
G27RR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2012   #44
The Medic01
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 256
Rep Power: 1875 The Medic01 is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Medic01 is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Medic01 is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Medic01 is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Medic01 is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Medic01 is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Medic01 is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Medic01 is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Medic01 is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Medic01 is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Medic01 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)

Does this factor in 6m in rookie contracts.
The Medic01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2012   #45
G27RR
WATTch Out!
 
G27RR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 288
Rep Power: 2211 G27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Medic01 View Post
Does this factor in 6m in rookie contracts.
No, but I did mention that in the OP.
G27RR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2012   #46
GP 
Go Texans!
 
GP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: TEXAS!
Posts: 17,747
Rep Power: 50777 GP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

We live in the Information Age...and yet not even the professional analysts know the cap standings.

Guys on message boards have to do the heavy lifting.

I mean, I know we're dealing with each player's salary...so we can't possibly know every dollar and cent for every player. But shouldn't there be a way to get relatively near the amounts?

This is so maddening.
__________________
GP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2012   #47
mussop
Hall of Fame
 
mussop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,083
Rep Power: 92801 mussop is a quality contributor and well respectedmussop is a quality contributor and well respectedmussop is a quality contributor and well respectedmussop is a quality contributor and well respectedmussop is a quality contributor and well respectedmussop is a quality contributor and well respectedmussop is a quality contributor and well respectedmussop is a quality contributor and well respectedmussop is a quality contributor and well respectedmussop is a quality contributor and well respectedmussop is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)

Ok smart guys tell me this, how many players are currently under contract? How much is our rookie pool going to be? How are we going to fill out our roster with quality players with the numbers you are coming up with and still have the money to extend next years important FA's now? Quit throwing a bunch of numbers around that just make everyones and answer these apparent easy questions.
mussop is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 03-15-2012   #48
Corrosion
Hall of Fame
 
Corrosion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Northwest Houston
Age: 46
Posts: 31,117
Rep Power: 174245 Corrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)








__________________



Hope is a poor mans disease.
Corrosion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2012   #49
G27RR
WATTch Out!
 
G27RR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 288
Rep Power: 2211 G27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)

Double post, sorry.
G27RR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2012   #50
G27RR
WATTch Out!
 
G27RR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 288
Rep Power: 2211 G27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)

Updated numbers, also added to the OP. It now looks more like $22M, not $25M, less dead money = maybe $14M to sign UFAs and the rookie contracts. Changed Schaub's signing bonus, Manning's and McCain's numbers and a few other minor tweaks.

G27RR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2012   #51
TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
 
TheMatrix31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: California
Posts: 7,060
Rep Power: 53531 TheMatrix31 is a quality contributor and well respectedTheMatrix31 is a quality contributor and well respectedTheMatrix31 is a quality contributor and well respectedTheMatrix31 is a quality contributor and well respectedTheMatrix31 is a quality contributor and well respectedTheMatrix31 is a quality contributor and well respectedTheMatrix31 is a quality contributor and well respectedTheMatrix31 is a quality contributor and well respectedTheMatrix31 is a quality contributor and well respectedTheMatrix31 is a quality contributor and well respectedTheMatrix31 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)

The fact that all of this is so insanely complicated represents a major issue.

This crap needs to be streamlined.
TheMatrix31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2012   #52
HoustonFrog
Chitown Frog
 
HoustonFrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Chicago
Age: 44
Posts: 12,417
Rep Power: 32311 HoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)

I asked LZ straight out on Twitter if he had a hard number that he knew was correct for the Texans..from sources or whatever and his response was

Quote:
Lance Zierlein ‏@Milldog13 it was 6.3 million yesterday morning
__________________
Desperation is a stinky cologne. -Super Troopers
HoustonFrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2012   #53
G27RR
WATTch Out!
 
G27RR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 288
Rep Power: 2211 G27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
I asked LZ straight out on Twitter if he had a hard number that he knew was correct for the Texans..from sources or whatever and his response was
Just getting a number from a source doesn't mean the Texans gave him an accurate one - they could have their own agenda with releasing a certain figure. Also, they could be giving a number with certain assumptions in it that they don't care to share with Lance. They could have already deducted rookie draft money, which wouldn't be far off from my estimation if you do that with my numbers.

Front offices, players and agents use the media for their own purposes all the time.

All that said, it could be accurate. Mine could be close. The only people who know for sure are the Texans and the league office. (and the NFLPA should be able to know since they get copies of all contracts within a day or two as part of the CBA)

Last edited by G27RR; 03-15-2012 at 08:14 AM. Reason: typo
G27RR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2012   #54
The Medic01
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 256
Rep Power: 1875 The Medic01 is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Medic01 is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Medic01 is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Medic01 is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Medic01 is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Medic01 is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Medic01 is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Medic01 is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Medic01 is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Medic01 is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Medic01 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)

So the dead money could be wrong right.
The Medic01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2012   #55
GP 
Go Texans!
 
GP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: TEXAS!
Posts: 17,747
Rep Power: 50777 GP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMatrix31 View Post
The fact that all of this is so insanely complicated represents a major issue.

This crap needs to be streamlined.
I agree.

But the apparently built-in, purposeful confusion seems to be a shield that teams use so that other teams cannot figure out if another team has a lot of room or no room.

Once you know a team has x-amount of dollars, you can pick off their UFAs for less money if you know they're up against the cap.

I don't see the cap numbers becoming common knowledge anytime soon. It's info that can be used against them.
__________________
GP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2012   #56
aussie_texan
Hall of Fame
 
aussie_texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,333
Rep Power: 21345 aussie_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedaussie_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedaussie_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedaussie_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedaussie_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedaussie_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedaussie_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedaussie_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedaussie_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedaussie_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedaussie_texan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GP View Post
I agree.

But the apparently built-in, purposeful confusion seems to be a shield that teams use so that other teams cannot figure out if another team has a lot of room or no room.

Once you know a team has x-amount of dollars, you can pick off their UFAs for less money if you know they're up against the cap.

I don't see the cap numbers becoming common knowledge anytime soon. It's info that can be used against them.
not necessarily.
If there is a market for that player, the price will still be pushed up.
The player will go to the team whom values him the most.
aussie_texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2012   #57
G27RR
WATTch Out!
 
G27RR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 288
Rep Power: 2211 G27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Medic01 View Post
So the dead money could be wrong right.
Yes, that's why there's a question mark. It's based on an estimate somone linked to earlier in this thread. It seems ballpark though, I had figured between $7M-$10M but couldn't pin it down.
G27RR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2012   #58
G27RR
WATTch Out!
 
G27RR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 288
Rep Power: 2211 G27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respectedG27RR is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aussie_texan View Post
not necessarily.
If there is a market for that player, the price will still be pushed up.
The player will go to the team whom values him the most.
Right, but it would still give teams some advantage as GP said. For instance, if you wait to go after someone until later in FA, and you know a certain team can offer $2M to one off their guys and they have the right to match your offer through a tender situation, you know you only need to offer $2.1M to prevent their ability to match. It can save you some cash. That's a simplistic example but you get the idea.
G27RR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2012   #59
GP 
Go Texans!
 
GP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: TEXAS!
Posts: 17,747
Rep Power: 50777 GP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)

Quote:
Originally Posted by G27RR View Post
Right, but it would still give teams some advantage as GP said. For instance, if you wait to go after someone until later in FA, and you know a certain team can offer $2M to one off their guys and they have the right to match your offer through a tender situation, you know you only need to offer $2.1M to prevent their ability to match. It can save you some cash. That's a simplistic example but you get the idea.
I think this is the whole reason nobody BUT the team itself knows the full amount of a guy's contract and what it counts against the cap.

There has to be an element of safe-guarding so that teams cannot pin down what room the other teams have. Now, they can get nearly the exact amount(s)...but they'll never know 100% the to-the-dollar amounts, which could swing heavily into the hundred of thousands if a team plays its cards close to its vest.

This would explain the sheer complexity of it all, why not even the professional "analysts" can arrive at the same cap number on a team's standing.

I cannot imagine guys like Andrew Brandt not being able to do the math on any team's cap situation. That guy is brilliant, IMO. Nobody has the same numbers, which tells me the process is designed specifically for obfuscation.
__________________
GP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2012   #60
ArlingtonTexan
Moderator
 
ArlingtonTexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Age: 47
Posts: 6,026
Rep Power: 73193 ArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedArlingtonTexan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMatrix31 View Post
The fact that all of this is so insanely complicated represents a major issue.

This crap needs to be streamlined.
Not really. Regular Joes really don't "need" to exactly how much money a team does or does not have. I get that free agency is a part of the fun of following a team, but knowing every detail of the finances is not essentially information for any fan.
__________________
It doesn't just seem like I was talking down to people, I was. (Runner 8/4/09).
ArlingtonTexan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger