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Old 03-14-2012   #21
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Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)

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Originally Posted by G27RR View Post
My data indcates Schaub's bonus is 500k this year and is included. Andre's figure is as of Monday when he restructured this year.
Schaub only has a 500k roster bonus I thought, I will double check.
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Old 03-14-2012   #22
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Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
WHere do you see $8m for Manning? He lists $3.5m cap. Also, my understanding is Schaub's 2012 cap is apprx $7m not 9. i think you may be adding it twice.
If we know his contract is 4 years 20 million total, and have 12 million of that allotted to years 2-4, then we can infer that the other 8 million must be paid out somewhere. Either that 8 was paid in 2011 as salary/roster bonus/whatever, or he had a lower base salary like 4 million, and the other 4 million is incentive based. Whatever the case is, there is a lot of money missing in that equation and leads to more uncertainty when trying to GM using Rotoworld info.


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Originally Posted by ChampionTexan View Post
Something that's interesting and potentially significant, that I haven't heard discussed at all (by anyone), is that Article 13 Section 6 of the current CBA specifically limits the number of years a signing bonus can be prorated over to 5.

Here's the exact language:



The previous CBA had essentially the same language, but limited it to 6. If I understand this correctly, it means Matt's initial signing bonus was likely fully amortized at the end of last season.
Good to know, but Schaub's deal was signed under the old CBA in 2007. I kinda doubt they would change existing contracts to meet the new rules and place unexpected cap burdens on the teams.
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Old 03-14-2012   #23
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Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)

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Good to know, but Schaub's deal was signed under the old CBA in 2007. I kinda doubt they would change existing contracts to meet the new rules and place unexpected cap burdens on the teams.
Did you read the last sentence of my post?
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Old 03-14-2012   #24
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Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)

So why would people be pulling out numbers like 3.6 to 6.3 only and be saying that the Texans were up against it? There has to be dead money out there.

Just reporting, not making a statement

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LanceZierlein Lance Zierlein
According to John Clayton, Texans and Chargers didn't have enough cap space to carryover so that answers that question.
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LanceZierlein Lance Zierlein
Texans have 6.3 million in cap space, but remember that it also includes what they have to spend in rookie pool.
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LanceZierlein Lance Zierlein
I need someone from Texans to explain why they didn't carry over cap space from last year. It sure would help to have every little bit
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/75...p-room-improve

Article from February

Quote:
The Houston Texans and San Diego Chargers didn't have enough remaining room to push money over into 2012, so Houston has $3.3 million of cap space and San Diego has $9.2 million
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Old 03-14-2012   #25
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Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)

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Originally Posted by NastyNate View Post
You REALLY think we're going to sign someone to the practice squad to the extent that they are of the top 51 paid players? The practice squad doesn't count against the cap.

Nate
Yes it does. From the current CBA:

Quote:
ARTICLE 13 SALARY CAP ACCOUNTING RULES

Section 5. Computation of Team Salary: During any League Year in which the Salary Cap is in effect, all of the following amounts shall be included every day in determining a Team’s Team Salary

(c) Practice Squad Contracts. Any Practice Squad contract Salaries shall be included in Team Salary...
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Old 03-14-2012   #26
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Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)

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Originally Posted by ChampionTexan View Post
Did you read the last sentence of my post?
Yes...

If Matt's deal was 6 years long, his signing bonus would have been paid out in equal installments over those 6 years using the old CBA. The new CBA limits that to 5 years, which came into effect with 2 years left on Matt's deal. Unless the new CBA changes existing contracts like Matt's, I don't see how that would effect his payments. Going forward, every deal made will be effected by that rule.
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Old 03-14-2012   #27
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Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)

my bad - I was getting the signing bonus amount and the term of the contract flip-flopped.
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Old 03-14-2012   #28
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Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)

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Originally Posted by ChampionTexan View Post
Because 2011 was the sixth year of his seven year contract - meaning his signing bonus had to be fully prorated at the end of it. Hence - nothing left to amortize for 2012.
Oh, that's the miscommunication. Schaub's deal was 6 years long with a 7 mill signing bonus.

Quote:
3/21/2007: Signed a six-year, $48 million contract. The deal included a $7 million signing bonus and a $10 million option in the fourth season. 2012: $7.15 million (+ $500,000 roster bonus due 3/17), 2013: Free Agent
http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/contracts/nfl/hou/texans

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Old 03-14-2012   #29
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Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)

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Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
Oh, that's the miscommunication. Schaub's deal was 6 years long with a 7 mill signing bonus.



http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/contracts/nfl/hou/texans

It's all good.
Yeha - realized it and edited my post.
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Old 03-14-2012   #30
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Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)

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Thanks for repeating what I and some others have been posting for weeks. In a less detailed format, I've posted Mario's $20m 2011 cap + $4.5 savings from Winston +$5.2m Andre's+ Leinert's base $2.5m = $32million. We have spent $8m on Foster and crakerjacks on Weeks.
32-8= $24million available to spend once Mario signs elsewhere. We will see mucho movement when Mario decides.

Good post.
badboy, I've taken your posts into consideration when trying to decipher our situation. I've mentioned your calculations, & all others similar, as plausible & as far as I could tell, most accurate.

However, none of the things that happened in the last 27 hours make sense if your calculations are correct (same for G27RR) as there would be no reason to cut Winston, Leinart, Vickers, (possibly Jj), or restructure Andre's contract at this time, simply to save just $15M of cap space if we were already $15M or so under.
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Old 03-14-2012   #31
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Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
badboy, I've taken your posts into consideration when trying to decipher our situation. I've mentioned your calculations, & all others similar, as plausible & as far as I could tell, most accurate.

However, none of the things that happened in the last 27 hours make sense if your calculations are correct (same for G27RR) as there would be no reason to cut Winston, Leinart, Vickers, (possibly Jj), or restructure Andre's contract at this time, simply to save just $15M of cap space if we were already $15M or so under.
Unless they are trying to keep Mario, Myers and Brisiel. They may have put 15 aside for Mario and are trying to free up more to offer to Myers while we wait for Mario to decide.
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Old 03-14-2012   #32
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Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)

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Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
If we know his contract is 4 years 20 million total, and have 12 million of that allotted to years 2-4, then we can infer that the other 8 million must be paid out somewhere. Either that 8 was paid in 2011 as salary/roster bonus/whatever, or he had a lower base salary like 4 million, and the other 4 million is incentive based. Whatever the case is, there is a lot of money missing in that equation and leads to more uncertainty when trying to GM using Rotoworld info.




Good to know, but Schaub's deal was signed under the old CBA in 2007. I kinda doubt they would change existing contracts to meet the new rules and place unexpected cap burdens on the teams.
My understanding was his 2012 was the $7m + .5 for roster bonus. The $10 million he got as a one time payment and was not prorated.
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Old 03-14-2012   #33
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Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)

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My understanding was his 2012 was the $7m + .5 for roster bonus. The $10 million he got as a one time payment and was not prorated.
In regard to Schaub:

7.15 mill base
500k roster bonus
1.166 remaining in salary bonus amortized over the life of the contract.

That 10 million 2010 bonus doesn't figure into the equation. It was a one time roster bonus that was paid in full that year.
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Old 03-14-2012   #34
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Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)

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Unless they are trying to keep Mario, Myers and Brisiel. They may have put 15 aside for Mario and are trying to free up more to offer to Myers while we wait for Mario to decide.
I'm still not seeing it. With $15M to $20M & we're only counting our top 51 players....

Even signing Mario to a $15M/yr deal, most likely his cap number would be $10M-$12M......

Even with a $15M cap hit, we could cut those players when Mario/Myers signed their deals.

We would also have time to restructure contracts (which I thought we would have heard more about three weeks ago).
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Old 03-14-2012   #35
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Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
badboy, I've taken your posts into consideration when trying to decipher our situation. I've mentioned your calculations, & all others similar, as plausible & as far as I could tell, most accurate.

However, none of the things that happened in the last 27 hours make sense if your calculations are correct (same for G27RR) as there would be no reason to cut Winston, Leinart, Vickers, (possibly Jj), or restructure Andre's contract at this time, simply to save just $15M of cap space if we were already $15M or so under.
I think Mario is saying you paid me $20m last year and you want to sign me for what? As has been reported on all radio and TV, Myers is being tempted with more than Texans expected elsewhere. I believe Texans thought Myers would say "Hey I made probowl as a center in this O. so I will get a healthy increase and retire a Texan." Instead, he realized "Holy smoke, I can get THAT much elsewhere!" Smith knows he has to have a center for ZBS that can call assignments for the Oline. He messed up by not having someone trained to do that. Wade Smith when signed said he preferred OG but could play center. Caldwell was drafted & many said he'd beat Myers out first year. Briesel was our backup center, but uh oh he may be gone also.

I think TexCanada has it about right. SMith has set aside $15m + for Mario and about $5 to $6m for Myers with left over for Briesel. If true and I see nothing to indicate it is not, this exactly fits the last 27 hours. I think Texans, especially McNair want Mario to retire in Houston and is desperately doing all it can to accomplish that goal. I think Myers will be back and other reporters are now saying that today.

The $15m you mention prior to AJ and Winston and Leinert may not be enough for Mario let alone the other two.
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Old 03-14-2012   #36
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Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)

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I'm still not seeing it. With $15M to $20M & we're only counting our top 51 players....

Even signing Mario to a $15M/yr deal, most likely his cap number would be $10M-$12M......

Even with a $15M cap hit, we could cut those players when Mario/Myers signed their deals. We would also have time to restructure contracts (which I thought we would have heard more about three weeks ago).
I think it was to show the players that Texans are negotiating seriously saying "see here's the money. Come on back." This would be important if they are asking Myers and Briesel not to sign elsewhere before giving Texans a chance.
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Old 03-14-2012   #37
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Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)

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My understanding was his 2012 was the $7m + .5 for roster bonus. The $10 million he got as a one time payment and was not prorated.
This, but I'll have to check when I get a chance. Worst case, you take another $1.16M off my total.
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Old 03-14-2012   #38
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Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)

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This, but I'll have to check when I get a chance. Worst case, you take another $1.16M off my total.
and that is miniscule.
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Old 03-14-2012   #39
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Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)

Your sure this is right because if it is that would be amazing. I was getting really worried with talks of 5m and 615,000 dollars under.
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Old 03-14-2012   #40
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Default Re: Why I think we have cap room (and how much)

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This, but I'll have to check when I get a chance. Worst case, you take another $1.16M off my total.
This? I quoted you Rotoworld with the excerpt about Schaub's deal. It's plain as day that he got a signing bonus, and it's likely that it was prorated over the entire 6 years of his deal. Did you not get your numbers from Rotoworld's contract database? Because it's pretty obvious that your numbers match up exactly with theirs.

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and that is miniscule.
Yeah if you consider 8% of your 15 million in capspace projection insignificant. But that's not all, as I pointed out earlier in the thread, there is 18 million of unaccounted money between Manning and OD's contracts. You nor the OP can tell me exactly how much of that was paid in 2011, nor how much of it will be paid in the future, nor how that money is structured. We simply don't know. I'm willing to bet those two didn't earn 18 million together last year.

Here's another mistake on Rotoworld's numbers:

Quote:
Brice McCain 6/8/2009: Signed a four-year, $1.852 million contract. The deal included a $101,750 signing bonus. 2012: $1.308 million, 2013: Free Agent
4 years, 1.852 million. Now we know 101k went to signing bonus, and we know that league minimum is ~400k since he was drafted, then how does he earn 70% of his total contract value in year 4 of it? Was he really paid only 550k over the last 3 years? That can't possibly be true, but it just goes to show that none of these numbers are perfect, and we can't make up the Texans' cap by aggregating all this info.
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