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Old 03-01-2012   #41
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan article

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Originally Posted by cbs1507 View Post
I swear some of you Mario haters over-value everyone that is not Mario.

Shaun Cody career stats
http://www.nfl.com/player/shauncody/2506376/profile

Earl Mitchell career stats
http://www.nfl.com/player/earlmitchell/496822/profile

Mitchell has more tackles and just as many sacks last year. He has more sacks in the past 2 seasons than Cody in the past 6. Let's just say we did cut Cody. If that was all that stood between us and signing Mario then I'm down.

But seriously do you think the loss of Shaun Cody is that devastating? We could draft a Kendall Reyes or my favorite Alameda Ta’amu (everybody needs a Polynesian on their defense ). We could get them in the 2nd round and they would be cheaper than what Cody would cost us based on the new rookie pay scale. Are you doubting that we could draft a guy that can get us 23 tackles and 1 sack at the NT position?

You are going to use the stats of a NT to determine his worth? Wow!

The loss of Cody, in itself, isn't devastating. What is devastating is dumping effective players in their prime in order to create cap space for one player who hasn't finished a season healthy since 2008. Football rosters are 53 men deep for a reason. Also, for every player you cut to create cap space, you force the Texans to replace in the draft. That's not the best way to run a draft, IMO.

I'd rather the Texans enter the draft without a glaring need and have all their draft picks on best available player.
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Old 03-01-2012   #42
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan article

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
True.... true.

We would also have enough "real" money to chase a proven WR if we were paying league minimum for Wide recievers who produce like two league minimum WRs. That's less than a million dollars. We could & should have $3M max tied up in the receivers we have, instead we have over $7M.... That could be a proven WR plus a couple of low round flyers.



Keep Cody if you want. But Mitchell played on that "great" defense as well as Cody..... probably played as many snaps, or very close. We overpaid Cody to lure him to the great sport city of Houston. Just like we overpaid for Antonio Smth. Again, we should be paying league minimum for the production we get out of Cody.

& as good as this defense was in 2011, we get better by adding a dynamic, freak of an athlete versatile enough to play OLB in a 3-4 or DE in a 4-3, just like Wade likes to play it. We can go to FA & try to find that guy, who'll work in this system, in this locker room, with this coach, in this city. We can go to the draft & find that raw athlete who's game can translate to the NFL, who'll work in this system, in this locker room, with this coach, in this city, who knows how to be a pro.

Or, we can be thankful for the bird in our hand. Offer him a fair deal, negotiate out of good faith. If it happens, it happens. If not.... plan B.

We got tremendous value for Antonio Smith. Your perception at the time may have been that we overpaid for him, however he has performed up to that contract without a doubt.

Cody is working on his 2nd contract with Houston. We re-signed him last year for more money that his original deal because the coaching staff thinks highly of his play.

Cody played twice as many snaps as Mitchell. I like Mitchell. However, Cody + Mitchell is almost definitely much better than Mitchell + a cheap alternative.

We wouldn't be adding Mario. He was already on the team last year. How much did his presence improve the team in 2011? How about 2010?
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Old 03-01-2012   #43
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan article

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
You are going to use the stats of a NT to determine his worth? Wow!

The loss of Cody, in itself, isn't devastating. What is devastating is dumping effective players in their prime in order to create cap space for one player who hasn't finished a season healthy since 2008. Football rosters are 53 men deep for a reason. Also, for every player you cut to create cap space, you force the Texans to replace in the draft. That's not the best way to run a draft, IMO.

I'd rather the Texans enter the draft without a glaring need and have all their draft picks on best available player.
He doesn't demand (or even at least occasionally occupy) double teams. In fact teams double our DE's instead of him on passing situations. He is overpaid for the production he gives us. Like leebigeztx said we have to run blitz just to occupy blocks and stop the run. A rookie (much cheaper) could do that for us.

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Old 03-01-2012   #44
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan article

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post

The loss of Cody, in itself, isn't devastating. What is devastating is dumping effective players in their prime in order to create cap space for one player who hasn't finished a season healthy since 2008. Football rosters are 53 men deep for a reason. Also, for every player you cut to create cap space, you force the Texans to replace in the draft. That's not the best way to run a draft, IMO.

I'd rather the Texans enter the draft without a glaring need and have all their draft picks on best available player.
If you let Mario Walk, you have to address outside pass rusher. It's silly to not think so. I believe you should address that position with our first pick, or our 2nd at the latest. Some people may think we can find that player in this draft in the 3rd or lower. But to not see the need....... but think we "have to" replace Cody, you really need to slow down with the 'shrooms....

Another thing, most "draftniks" on this board (& some of the professional media guys) have identified WR as our most pressing need & NT as another. Look at the mocks, they have us taking either a WR in the first & a DT in the second, or a DT in the first & a WR in the second.

While our needs may not be glaring, they're still there.
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Old 03-01-2012   #45
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan article

Williams will be expensive, but here's a plan that could work for TexansBy*Pat Kirwan
*| NFL Insider

There is less than a week until the deadline for teams to use the franchise tag on players. For some teams, it's a no brainer. For others it is a difficult decision.
The latter group includes the*Houston Texans
. For most of the offseason it has been assumed that Houston simply can't tag*Mario Williams
*because of the cap expense. Tagging him would be close to impossible but getting him signed to a deal could be attainable.
Williams made $18.326 million last year and whether he is viewed as a defensive end (franchise tag price of $10.6 million) or outside linebacker (franchise tag $8.8 million) it doesn't matter because he qualifies for 120 percent of his 2011 salary because it is higher than the franchise tag. That requires $22 million of salary cap space. As soon as Williams signs the franchise offer it is guaranteed.
The Texans have $4.77 million of cap space as of Feb. 29. Tagging him is impossible unless they dump a considerable number of high-priced players, weakening the team. Signing him to a long-term deal is possible and I will show you a few options Houston could consider to keep the 27-year-old Williams in a Texans uniform.

The team also has to find a way to re-sign center*Chris Myers
*and restricted free-agent running back*Arian Foster
. It is no easy task but it can be done. It will take a lot of cash, somewhere in the neighborhood of $50 million, but if the Texans believe they are close to a Super Bowl this isn't the time to go backward in the personnel department. A team in a rebuilding situation or with an aging squad should not consider this method.
First, you can forget going to*Matt Schaub
*for cap relief because he is in the last year of his deal and there is no way to spread a bonus out. Asking him to do a contract extension might be too much with the price of quarterbacks still going up so ignore him for the time being.
Before the Texans cut any players to make this work they could talk to four veterans --*Andre Johnson
,Johnathan Joseph
,*Owen Daniels
,*Antonio Smith
*-- about converting salary to signing bonus without adding any years to their existing contracts. I would assume that all four would be willing to take cash now instead of during the season. All have multiple years left on their contracts and all four should be in the Texans' plans at least for the length of their present contracts.
•*Johnson is scheduled to make $6.5 million this season and has five years left on his deal. Convert $5 million of his 2012 salary to signing bonus and for cap purposes spread the bonus out over the five years remaining and it gives the Texans $4 million of salary-cap space right now.
•*Joseph is scheduled to make $7.25 million this season and has four years left on his deal. Convert $6 million of his 2012 salary into signing bonus and spread it out over the four years and it gives the Texans another $4.5 million of cap space.
•*Daniels is scheduled to make $3.5 million this year and has three years left on his deal. Convert $2.5 million of his salary to signing bonus and spread it out over the three years and it gives the Texans $1.66 million of cap space.
•*Smith is scheduled to make $5.5 million this year and has two years left on his contract. Convert $4 million of it to signing bonus and spread it over the two seasons and it gives the Texans $2 million of salary cap space.

Those four contract maneuvers create a total of $12.16 million of cap space. Add that to the $4.77 million of existing space and the Texans have $16.93 million of space to work with to keep their players.
First stop: Mario Williams. Since Williams knows the team can't afford the franchise tag and if he gets to free agency he should get a contract close to*Julius Peppers'
*deal that averages $14 million a year, the Texans have to get to the real numbers. The right deal might be six years for $90 million with a $30 million signing bonus and a $1 million salary in the first year. That means Williams sees $31 million the first year.
The cap charge for that deal is only $6 million in 2012: Divide the number of years (6) into the bonus ($30 million) to get a yearly proration of $5 million plus a $1 million salary. The second-year salary could be $3 million, which means he sees $34 million in the first two years. That is a $17 million average and a second-year cap charge of $8 million, which is tolerable. A third season at a $7 million salary means a three-year average of $13.6 million, or slightly above Peppers' three-year average. The cap charge for the third year would be $12 million.


That deal leaves $10.66 million of cap space in 2012, enough to sign Myers, Foster and draft picks. The salary cap is low right now but there will be growth in the next few years and the Texans will be able to absorb the contract growth.
There's always a risk when handing out big bonuses instead of unguaranteed salaries but the Texans are close to the top and could be legitimate Super Bowl contenders. The Colts are rebuilding, the Jaguars are starting a second-year quarterback and the Titans may be doing the same. The time is now for the Houston Texas.
*

Here is the article. Hope my cut and paste from phone worked ok.
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Old 03-01-2012   #46
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan article

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
Williams will be expensive, but here's a plan that could work for TexansBy*Pat Kirwan
*| NFL Insider

There is less than a week until the deadline for teams to use the franchise tag on players. For some teams, it's a no brainer. For others it is a difficult decision.
The latter group includes the*Houston Texans
. For most of the offseason it has been assumed that Houston simply can't tag*Mario Williams
*because of the cap expense. Tagging him would be close to impossible but getting him signed to a deal could be attainable.
Williams made $18.326 million last year and whether he is viewed as a defensive end (franchise tag price of $10.6 million) or outside linebacker (franchise tag $8.8 million) it doesn't matter because he qualifies for 120 percent of his 2011 salary because it is higher than the franchise tag. That requires $22 million of salary cap space. As soon as Williams signs the franchise offer it is guaranteed.
The Texans have $4.77 million of cap space as of Feb. 29. Tagging him is impossible unless they dump a considerable number of high-priced players, weakening the team. Signing him to a long-term deal is possible and I will show you a few options Houston could consider to keep the 27-year-old Williams in a Texans uniform.

The team also has to find a way to re-sign center*Chris Myers
*and restricted free-agent running back*Arian Foster
. It is no easy task but it can be done. It will take a lot of cash, somewhere in the neighborhood of $50 million, but if the Texans believe they are close to a Super Bowl this isn't the time to go backward in the personnel department. A team in a rebuilding situation or with an aging squad should not consider this method.
First, you can forget going to*Matt Schaub
*for cap relief because he is in the last year of his deal and there is no way to spread a bonus out. Asking him to do a contract extension might be too much with the price of quarterbacks still going up so ignore him for the time being.
Before the Texans cut any players to make this work they could talk to four veterans --*Andre Johnson
,Johnathan Joseph
,*Owen Daniels
,*Antonio Smith
*-- about converting salary to signing bonus without adding any years to their existing contracts. I would assume that all four would be willing to take cash now instead of during the season. All have multiple years left on their contracts and all four should be in the Texans' plans at least for the length of their present contracts.
•*Johnson is scheduled to make $6.5 million this season and has five years left on his deal. Convert $5 million of his 2012 salary to signing bonus and for cap purposes spread the bonus out over the five years remaining and it gives the Texans $4 million of salary-cap space right now.
•*Joseph is scheduled to make $7.25 million this season and has four years left on his deal. Convert $6 million of his 2012 salary into signing bonus and spread it out over the four years and it gives the Texans another $4.5 million of cap space.
•*Daniels is scheduled to make $3.5 million this year and has three years left on his deal. Convert $2.5 million of his salary to signing bonus and spread it out over the three years and it gives the Texans $1.66 million of cap space.
•*Smith is scheduled to make $5.5 million this year and has two years left on his contract. Convert $4 million of it to signing bonus and spread it over the two seasons and it gives the Texans $2 million of salary cap space.

Those four contract maneuvers create a total of $12.16 million of cap space. Add that to the $4.77 million of existing space and the Texans have $16.93 million of space to work with to keep their players.
First stop: Mario Williams. Since Williams knows the team can't afford the franchise tag and if he gets to free agency he should get a contract close to*Julius Peppers'
*deal that averages $14 million a year, the Texans have to get to the real numbers. The right deal might be six years for $90 million with a $30 million signing bonus and a $1 million salary in the first year. That means Williams sees $31 million the first year.
The cap charge for that deal is only $6 million in 2012: Divide the number of years (6) into the bonus ($30 million) to get a yearly proration of $5 million plus a $1 million salary. The second-year salary could be $3 million, which means he sees $34 million in the first two years. That is a $17 million average and a second-year cap charge of $8 million, which is tolerable. A third season at a $7 million salary means a three-year average of $13.6 million, or slightly above Peppers' three-year average. The cap charge for the third year would be $12 million.


That deal leaves $10.66 million of cap space in 2012, enough to sign Myers, Foster and draft picks. The salary cap is low right now but there will be growth in the next few years and the Texans will be able to absorb the contract growth.
There's always a risk when handing out big bonuses instead of unguaranteed salaries but the Texans are close to the top and could be legitimate Super Bowl contenders. The Colts are rebuilding, the Jaguars are starting a second-year quarterback and the Titans may be doing the same. The time is now for the Houston Texas.
*

Here is the article. Hope my cut and paste from phone worked ok.
Stupid Texans front office. We should fire them all and hire Kirwin since he knows more about our salary cap they they do! Why isn't this guy working contracts for some NFL team?

To pay Mario that kind of money is EFFEN STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How can any intelligent person not see that if that money is attainable, this team would be better off using it to add multiple players instead of spending it on a player not worthy of such a large chunk of the cap space?

Mario is a good player, a very good player! He is NOT a game changer! He does NOT dominate nor take over games. Someone please point out one game where he truely dominated besides the the monday night game against Denver. That kind of money should only be spent on a single player when he is a game changing dominating presence.

We already have one of the top defenses in the entire NFL without him. Use that money to add more depth and strengthen the team. It will pay off in the long run.

Or you know just give Mario the money and next year when he or another important player goes down and we don't have any depth you can all cry about how unlucky we are.
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Old 03-01-2012   #47
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan article

I expect McNair to ok a big push this off season to put team into Super Bowl consideration.
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Old 03-01-2012   #48
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I expect McNair to ok a big push this off season to put team into Super Bowl consideration.
There are going to be some big names cut soon by other teams to get under the cap. Lots of older but still good players will make this FA market very affordable. Thats where we need to be looking instead of blowing our wad on one player. Lots of those type players are going to want to play for a team like the Texans.
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Old 03-01-2012   #49
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan article

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There are going to be some big names cut soon by other teams to get under the cap. Lots of older but still good players will make this FA market very affordable. Thats where we need to be looking instead of blowing our wad on one player. Lots of those type players are going to want to play for a team like the Texans.
^^^^
This

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Old 03-01-2012   #50
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan article

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There are going to be some big names cut soon by other teams to get under the cap. Lots of older but still good players will make this FA market very affordable. Thats where we need to be looking instead of blowing our wad on one player. Lots of those type players are going to want to play for a team like the Texans.
You must have read some of the many posts over the last two years saying I want to move Mario. I don't think anyone pre-dated my first comments. The difference between me and some others is I recognize his value. I began my talking about a trade with New England & was told repeatedly he did not fit. Now many talking heads say NE is perfect fit.

Having said that, I also believe McNair will offer a deal that Mario accepts even if fans don't like it. I am not as optimistic as you on free agency.
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Old 03-01-2012   #51
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan article

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There are going to be some big names cut soon by other teams to get under the cap. Lots of older but still good players will make this FA market very affordable. Thats where we need to be looking instead of blowing our wad on one player. Lots of those type players are going to want to play for a team like the Texans.
So, who are these very good older players you speak of? Most times when an older player gets cut, he's probably done.
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Old 03-01-2012   #52
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan article

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Stupid Texans front office. We should fire them all and hire Kirwin since he knows more about our salary cap they they do! Why isn't this guy working contracts for some NFL team?
Understand that Kirwan made a bit of a boo-boo. He states the Texans have $4.77M of cap space as of Feb 29, then goes on to show how the Texans can create the cap space to sign Mario, Foster, Myers & draft picks by restructuring just 4 contracts to free up $12.16M for a total of $16.93M


For now, just remember that. We sign Mario, Foster, Myers, & our draft picks for $16.93M

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To pay Mario that kind of money is EFFEN STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How can any intelligent person not see that if that money is attainable, this team would be better off using it to add multiple players instead of spending it on a player not worthy of such a large chunk of the cap space?
So what's really the issue? That we won't be able to sign anyone else?

What if we could?

If we could find a way to free up some extra money to sign all the other players you want, would it really matter how much money we give Mario?

Think about it. We get everything you want, plus Mario.... would that make you happy?
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Mario is a good player, a very good player! He is NOT a game changer! He does NOT dominate nor take over games. Someone please point out one game where he truely dominated besides the the monday night game against Denver. That kind of money should only be spent on a single player when he is a game changing dominating presence.
I thought he was pretty dominate in this years Miami & Pittsburg game. But that's just me. Surely your idea & my ideas won't jive, but it is what it is.
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We already have one of the top defenses in the entire NFL without him. Use that money to add more depth and strengthen the team. It will pay off in the long run.
I can't wait to see Mario playing with Barwin, Smith, & Watt playing like they did in the last 4 games of the season (including play-offs). I haven't verified it, but I thought we were getting more turnovers (just like we were getting more sacks) when Mario was in the game. That is until the end of the season, when every body else's performance started to match the level Mario was playing at since week 1.

Again, that's just me.
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Or you know just give Mario the money and next year when he or another important player goes down and we don't have any depth you can all cry about how unlucky we are.
Again, with the depth & getting other players... now I asked you earlier in this post, if you'd be happy if we were able to get all the other players you wanted.... keep in mind, the league only allows us to have 53 players.

So who do you want? How much is it going to cost to get them?

Go back to the article, remember that said $4.77M under the cap as of Feb 29. That means Mario's contract & the other 11 FA's are still counted, however we signed Mario, Myers, Foster, & our draft picks with the space we created restructuring 4 player's contracts. Andre Johnson, Jonathan Joseph, Owen Daniels, & Antonio Smith.

It also said Mario counted as $18M towards our cap.... as of Feb 29.

So go get whoever you want. If $18M isn't enough, cut Jacoby... if you're going to bring in a "real" proven #2 WR, cut Walters. That's an additional $7M..... that's $25M

Not enough? Restructure Demeco's contract, restructure Schaub's, you can free up another $12M for a total of $37M

We could have Mario, Foster, Myers, & our draft picks signed, & still have $37M to go after any FA you want.

Still not enough? Cut Rackers, cut Jason Allen, cut Derrick Ward..... how much money do you need to supply depth & a few quality pieces to this team?
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Old 03-01-2012   #53
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan article

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You must have read some of the many posts over the last two years saying I want to move Mario. I don't think anyone pre-dated my first comments. The difference between me and some others is I recognize his value. I began my talking about a trade with New England & was told repeatedly he did not fit. Now many talking heads say NE is perfect fit.

Having said that, I also believe McNair will offer a deal that Mario accepts even if fans don't like it. I am not as optimistic as you on free agency.
Sorry I don't remember you ever being involved in this long ongoing discussion.
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Old 03-01-2012   #54
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan article

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Understand that Kirwan made a bit of a boo-boo. He states the Texans have $4.77M of cap space as of Feb 29, then goes on to show how the Texans can create the cap space to sign Mario, Foster, Myers & draft picks by restructuring just 4 contracts to free up $12.16M for a total of $16.93M


For now, just remember that. We sign Mario, Foster, Myers, & our draft picks for $16.93M


So what's really the issue? That we won't be able to sign anyone else?

What if we could?

If we could find a way to free up some extra money to sign all the other players you want, would it really matter how much money we give Mario?

Think about it. We get everything you want, plus Mario.... would that make you happy?

I thought he was pretty dominate in this years Miami & Pittsburg game. But that's just me. Surely your idea & my ideas won't jive, but it is what it is.

I can't wait to see Mario playing with Barwin, Smith, & Watt playing like they did in the last 4 games of the season (including play-offs). I haven't verified it, but I thought we were getting more turnovers (just like we were getting more sacks) when Mario was in the game. That is until the end of the season, when every body else's performance started to match the level Mario was playing at since week 1.

Again, that's just me.


Again, with the depth & getting other players... now I asked you earlier in this post, if you'd be happy if we were able to get all the other players you wanted.... keep in mind, the league only allows us to have 53 players.

So who do you want? How much is it going to cost to get them?

Go back to the article, remember that said $4.77M under the cap as of Feb 29. That means Mario's contract & the other 11 FA's are still counted, however we signed Mario, Myers, Foster, & our draft picks with the space we created restructuring 4 player's contracts. Andre Johnson, Jonathan Joseph, Owen Daniels, & Antonio Smith.

It also said Mario counted as $18M towards our cap.... as of Feb 29.

So go get whoever you want. If $18M isn't enough, cut Jacoby... if you're going to bring in a "real" proven #2 WR, cut Walters. That's an additional $7M..... that's $25M

Not enough? Restructure Demeco's contract, restructure Schaub's, you can free up another $12M for a total of $37M

We could have Mario, Foster, Myers, & our draft picks signed, & still have $37M to go after any FA you want.

Still not enough? Cut Rackers, cut Jason Allen, cut Derrick Ward..... how much money do you need to supply depth & a few quality pieces to this team?

This is simple math. Take the team we ended last season with, the one without Mario that was able to make the playoffs with a top two defense and a backup QB, add a couple of key free agents to strengthen a weak area like we did last year with the money you want to spend on Mario.

In other words subtract Mario add (examples) Marques Colston, WR and Jeremy Zuttah, G/C.
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Old 03-01-2012   #55
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan article

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Understand that Kirwan made a bit of a boo-boo. He states the Texans have $4.77M of cap space as of Feb 29, then goes on to show how the Texans can create the cap space to sign Mario, Foster, Myers & draft picks by restructuring just 4 contracts to free up $12.16M for a total of $16.93M



I thought he was pretty dominate in this years Miami & Pittsburg game. But that's just me. Surely your idea & my ideas won't jive, but it is what it is.

I can't wait to see Mario playing with Barwin, Smith, & Watt playing like they did in the last 4 games of the season (including play-offs). I haven't verified it, but I thought we were getting more turnovers (just like we were getting more sacks) when Mario was in the game. That is until the end of the season, when every body else's performance started to match the level Mario was playing at since week 1.

Again, that's just me.


Again, with the depth & getting other players... now I asked you earlier in this post, if you'd be happy if we were able to get all the other players you wanted.... keep in mind, the league only allows us to have 53 players.

So who do you want? How much is it going to cost to get them?

Go back to the article, remember that said $4.77M under the cap as of Feb 29. That means Mario's contract & the other 11 FA's are still counted, however we signed Mario, Myers, Foster, & our draft picks with the space we created restructuring 4 player's contracts. Andre Johnson, Jonathan Joseph, Owen Daniels, & Antonio Smith.

Still not enough? Cut Rackers, cut Jason Allen, cut Derrick Ward..... how much money do you need to supply depth & a few quality pieces to this team?
We were on our 3rd string Quarterback, yet continued to win without Mario. Still, you want to gut the team that was playing important games to pay a guy that hasn't produced 10 sacks since 2008... Why? I'm not sure. I guess it's because the same people who claimed guys like Roy Williams (both of them), Chad Johnson, Randy Moss, Albert Haynesworth, Chris Johnson, and Asomugha were difference-makers worth spending elite money on.

He had a very good game vs. Pittsurgh. I agree. Miami? no. Barwin's sack was in a one on one matchup versus Jake Long. How did Mario acquire his sack? I'm not too excited about spending nearly $100 million on a guy that has had 2 or 3 great games since October of 2009. Sorry.
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Old 03-02-2012   #56
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan article

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This is simple math. Take the team we ended last season with, the one without Mario that was able to make the playoffs with a top two defense and a backup QB, add a couple of key free agents to strengthen a weak area like we did last year with the money you want to spend on Mario.

In other words subtract Mario add (examples) Marques Colston, WR and Jeremy Zuttah, G/C.
Lol...so your plan is to cut a guy whom you & dale call "injury prone" to add another injury prone player in Marques Colston?

What's more is that you have this same line of thinking with regards to resigning Brisiel.......another guy who's missed 20+ games in 3 different seasons for us.

Meanwhile you've got dale spewing his usual garbage as if its a certainty that the FA's are gonna wanna come here or if we'll even be able to afford them.....or even if they'll have any more of an impact that the guys we have here now. Lets look at the FA WR class.

Dwayne Bowe Chiefs 5 - Franchise tag

Plaxico Burress Jets 10 - already expressed interest in Philly, likely doesn't want to come here, old

Marques Colston Saints 6 - injury prone

Early Doucet Cardinals 4 - not much better if any better than what we have or could get in the draft.

Harry Douglas Falcons 3 - viable option
Pierre Garcon Colts 4 - injury prone...inconsistent hands
Ted Ginn Jr. 49ers 5 - LOL
Vincent Jackson Chargers 7 - injury prone, wants too much, SD isn't letting him go
Stevie Johnson Bills 4 - will likely cost too much; likely franchise tag; knucklehead.
Brandon Lloyd Rams 9 - viable option but if the texans thought highly of him he'd be here already for a 7th round pick.
Mario Manningham Giants 4 - viable option although i think he'll want too much.

Robert Meachem Saints 5 - not much if any better than Kevin Walter & JJ.

Laurent Robinson Cowboys 5 - likely not letting him go; only guy other than Austin Romo had repoire with.

Jerome Simpson Bengals 4 - inconsistent, knucklehead & not much better than what we've got.

Mike Wallace* Steelers 3 - steelers making room for him as we speak by cutting fan favorite Ward.


Reggie Wayne Colts 11 - would never come play for the texans imo.

Wes Welker Patriots 8 - franchise tag

Roy Williams Bears 8 - Lol.


so out of this huge market of vet wrs there are only really 2 viable guys...& we don't even know how much kubes likes these guys nor do we know how much they'll command.

Why we're still discussing whether or not to get a NT is irrelevant. I don't think we lose or gain much with or without a cody. Wade likes Mitchell, that's good enough for me.

You guys don't know what you want & you're assuming alot based on 1 successful season. Reed & Barwin are likely to see teams play them differently next year..our comp in division & out of division will be getting better next year too. I don't think either of these guys is good enough to overcome what will be coming their way next year...& for that reason and a few others i think the FO needs to seriously entertain bringing Mario back.
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Old 03-02-2012   #57
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan article

I see the validity of both sides of this argument.

On one hand, you can save money and use it to re-sign everyone and/or go after FA players to try and upgrade other positions like we did on CB and S last off-season.

On the other hand, you can retain Mario and re-sign everyone and/or cut some of the guys instead of re-signing them.

The key element, IMO, is this: How effective will Mario be from this day going forward? Some say you can structure the deal to peter out in about 3 years and be done with him if he sucks rocks around year 2 or 3 or whatever. OK. But will it have been worth it to do this instead of using his money to go after others in FA? I don't know.

I do not envy the Texans FO right now. Success breeds bigger challenges, such as this one. Everyone wants to get paid. This is why Super Bowl teams lose a lot of guys after they win the big game...everybody wants to get paid like a rock star. And we haven't even won the big game yet. Le sigh....

I guess we'll have to see what the outcome is, what the Texans decide to do huh?
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Old 03-02-2012   #58
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan article

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I talked to kirwan and ryan on sirius yesterday discussing the mario williams situation. He came on today and said it sparked him to write a article that will be on nfl.com. Basically, he talks about how he can go to aj,smith,daniels,and ryans and without cutting anyone, just converting salary, and create 16m of cap space. The deal he put together was 6yrs 90m with 30m signing bonus. That would leave 10.6m of cap room to do meyers and foster. Just a heads up on how a former gm would handle it.
Were you the guy talking about his wedding coming up?
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Old 03-02-2012   #59
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan article

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Anyway you slice it, you are cutting our best NT in order to pay Mario. You are cutting our 3rd best WR in order to pay Mario. Then, you are spending draft picks on certain positions because you needed to make room for Mario. By the way, that $5 million only gets you part way there.

I'd simply not sign Mario and add a good WR, perhaps a better NT, maybe upgrade at CB, sign all our free agents and begin extending guys like Brown, Barwin, etc... Then, other than adding depth at OLB, we would have a complete team with great depth.
So?? Our "best" NT, likely isn't as good as somebody we can get in the draft. We've seen the best that Cody can do, and he's nowhere near top-tier talent in the league at his position. Jacoby has been given his shot, I have ZERO issue with cutting him and attempting to resign him for less. If somebody else wants to pay that kinda $$ for him, that's fine. I understand you don't want to overpay for Mario, that's fine & I agree, but lets not make Cody/Jacoby out to be players they're not.

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If Mario isn't here, we have real money to spend on a proven WR.
That's only true if you're planning on hiring a FA receiver, otherwise, rookie pool is a different beast altogether.
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Old 03-02-2012   #60
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Default Re: Pat Kirwan article

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This is simple math. Take the team we ended last season with, the one without Mario that was able to make the playoffs with a top two defense and a backup QB, add a couple of key free agents to strengthen a weak area like we did last year with the money you want to spend on Mario.

In other words subtract Mario add (examples) Marques Colston, WR and Jeremy Zuttah, G/C.
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We were on our 3rd string Quarterback, yet continued to win without Mario. Still, you want to gut the team that was playing important games to pay a guy that hasn't produced 10 sacks since 2008...
You're both missing the point.

We don't have to cut anyone off the team. By restructuring Jjo, Antonio, OD, & Andre, we can free up the money to sign our big three (Myers, Foster, & Mario) plus our draft picks.

Then with the money you free up by dropping Mario's 2011 salary, that frees up $18M. You want Colston, you want Zuttah, what's stopping you? Sign them both for part of that $18M, you'll still have some left in reserve, unless you're saying those two guys are going to cost us more than Mario, Foster, Myers, & our draft picks.

& if you still need more money, restructure Matt Schaub & Demeco Ryans.

We've still got 53 men on this roster doing it this way, plus the two guys Mussop mentioned.

You've got to cut someone, just to get to 53.

Are you saying you want to cut Mario just for a roster spot? That's stupid.
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