Pat Kirwan article

[dalemurphy]

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[dalemurphy]

Originally Posted by leebigeztx

Did u say cody outperformed his contract? What game are u watching?.They could cut cody tommorrow and the only thing they would miss is his videos. He's easily replaced and doesn't have a market if released. They could bring him back at vet min and give him snap bonuses to fill it out. Hustle guy,that's it. Not to mention he's been a negative.

Well, this highlights the fact that you and I clearly don't see the same thing when we sit down to watch football. Cody isn't spectacular, certainly. However, I have no clue how someone could've watched the defense play this season and conclude that the "only thing they would miss is his videos"? Wow!

And, that "he's been a negative"? In 2011... really?

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder

Wow, that's more than Julius Peppers' contract value and it includes a big signing bonus! I wonder who's been saying that's the type of money he will be offered in free agency...?

Even with those roster moves, I don't like the idea of shelling out 15 million a year for Mario. It just seems like we would be overpaying at that point. I really think he's worth closer to 10 a year, but market price will probably be in the 15 a year range. I also would prefer retaining Myers, Brisiel, Rackers and locking down Foster longterm over getting Mario alone.

I don't either. I'd like Mario to be with the Texans for a long time to come. However, I think if we go too far over $14M, it may make things difficult for the Texans in the future. I don't know how far over "too far" over is.

My ceiling is $14M. Julius Peppers contract. I'd really like to see them sign him closer to $12M

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by badboy

The first two years could be $6-8million guaranteed ; bump in year 3-4 and big bump last two non-guaranteed. You can cut him then or be smiling at what a wise investment you made in a huge sack guy.

With a signing bonus right?

Personally, I think $6-8M is a lot of money. But Mario just finished a 6 year stint where he made $9M/yr. I don't know how you are going to sell him on taking a pay cut. He may love the Texans, Houston, & the Bullpen.... but this is business.

Now, it's totally possible to offer him a $25M (or $30M) signing bonus over 6 years & a $4-$6M salary. His cap number would be between $8M & $12M dollars. However some time in the future, that cap number is going to have to jump to the high teens..... not good for our future.

Of course at that time we can ask him to restructure or get cut..... then we'll have dead money....

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

Cody has outperformed his contract which counts roughly $3 million against the cap. Jones' number is similar. Do you propose replacing both players with rookie UDFAs? If not, whomever you replace them with will count against the cap. I don't like the idea of replacing my starting NT with someone with zero market value. I don't want the draft to simply be about replacing proven veterans with unproven mid and late round picks based on need.... but, that's just me.

Mitchell can take Cody's spot. Our draft pick/FA could play behind him. If they outperform Mitchell, they win the spot.

I like Jacoby, I don't think I've been coy about that, but for the money we're spending.... doesn't make sense to me. Either he or KDub needs to go & we can start running late round flyers & FAs who can make it through training camp through the 3 & 4 WRs like every other team to find that diamond in the rough.... Jacoby Ford, Antonio Brown, Victor Cruz, etc...

[Maddict5]

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

Well, this highlights the fact that you and I clearly don't see the same thing when we sit down to watch football. Cody isn't spectacular, certainly. However, I have no clue how someone could've watched the defense play this season and conclude that the "only thing they would miss is his videos"? Wow!

And, that "he's been a negative"? In 2011... really?

cody has been solid but at the same time hes still JAG....

mario, while you may feel is overrated, is still one of the premier players of his position in the league. id rather overpay mario some and keep him around rather than letting him go for nothing just to play moneyball with a few meh guys...

nonetheless im still standing by my opinion that this 'salary cap crisis' is nothing more than an offseason timefiller and we wont lose any of our important FA's that we want to keep

[Maddict5]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Mitchell can take Cody's spot. Our draft pick/FA could play behind him. If they outperform Mitchell, they win the spot.

I like Jacoby, I don't think I've been coy about that, but for the money we're spending.... doesn't make sense to me. Either he or KDub needs to go & we can start running late round flyers & FAs who can make it through training camp through the 3 & 4 WRs like every other team to find that diamond in the rough.... Jacoby Ford, Antonio Brown, Victor Cruz, etc...

......lestar jean

[Allstar]

Wait, so is it an article or a radio interview? If it's an article, anyone have a link?

[dalemurphy]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Mitchell can take Cody's spot. Our draft pick/FA could play behind him. If they outperform Mitchell, they win the spot.

I like Jacoby, I don't think I've been coy about that, but for the money we're spending.... doesn't make sense to me. Either he or KDub needs to go & we can start running late round flyers & FAs who can make it through training camp through the 3 & 4 WRs like every other team to find that diamond in the rough.... Jacoby Ford, Antonio Brown, Victor Cruz, etc...

Do you see this?: See how the Mario signing whittles away our depth. Not only with them not being able to upgrade at WR2/3 or NT in free agency, the proposed Mario deal has using getting worse at NT and WR, in addition to spending draft picks to on replacements instead of BPA. Not a fan of this scenario at all!

[Playoffs]

Originally Posted by Allstar

Wait, so is it an article or a radio interview? If it's an article, anyone have a link?

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/1...ork-for-texans

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

Do you see this?: See how the Mario signing whittles away our depth. Not only with them not being able to upgrade at WR2/3 or NT in free agency, the proposed Mario deal has using getting worse at NT and WR, in addition to spending draft picks to on replacements instead of BPA. Not a fan of this scenario at all!

Really?

That's not at all what I said. I like Cody, but I think Mitchell plays just as well, if not a hair better. I'm making room for a rookie to come in & earn a spot on the team..... don't see any reason to keep 3 NTs on the roster.

I like Jacoby, but we shouldn't pay $3+ million for a 500 yard 5 TD receiver, which we have with Jacoby/KDubya.....

I want to go strong - trade out of the first & draft 2 WRs in the second- for our #2 WR in the draft.

My opinion for making these moves should happen regardless what we do with Mario.

[mussop]

Originally Posted by leebigeztx

I talked to kirwan and ryan on sirius yesterday discussing the mario williams situation. He came on today and said it sparked him to write a article that will be on nfl.com. Basically, he talks about how he can go to aj,smith,daniels,and ryans and without cutting anyone, just converting salary, and create 16m of cap space. The deal he put together was 6yrs 90m with 30m signing bonus. That would leave 10.6m of cap room to do meyers and foster. Just a heads up on how a former gm would handle it.

Do you seriously think Mario is worth that money? Just because it could be done doesn't mean we should do it. Does he say how we are going to be able to sign all our FA's next year? Imagine what FA's we could add with that money.

Strapping us up against the cap to keep Mario is nearsighted and flat out stupid!

[dalemurphy]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Really?

That's not at all what I said. I like Cody, but I think Mitchell plays just as well, if not a hair better. I'm making room for a rookie to come in & earn a spot on the team..... don't see any reason to keep 3 NTs on the roster.

I like Jacoby, but we shouldn't pay $3+ million for a 500 yard 5 TD receiver, which we have with Jacoby/KDubya.....

I want to go strong - trade out of the first & draft 2 WRs in the second- for our #2 WR in the draft.

My opinion for making these moves should happen regardless what we do with Mario.

Anyway you slice it, you are cutting our best NT in order to pay Mario. You are cutting our 3rd best WR in order to pay Mario. Then, you are spending draft picks on certain positions because you needed to make room for Mario. By the way, that $5 million only gets you part way there.

I'd simply not sign Mario and add a good WR, perhaps a better NT, maybe upgrade at CB, sign all our free agents and begin extending guys like Brown, Barwin, etc... Then, other than adding depth at OLB, we would have a complete team with great depth.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

Anyway you slice it, you are cutting our best NT in order to pay Mario. You are cutting our 3rd best WR in order to pay Mario. Then, you are spending draft picks on certain positions because you needed to make room for Mario. By the way, that $5 million only gets you part way there.

I'd simply not sign Mario and add a good WR, perhaps a better NT, maybe upgrade at CB, sign all our free agents and begin extending guys like Brown, Barwin, etc... Then, other than adding depth at OLB, we would have a complete team with great depth.

You do understand we can only keep 53 players on our roster.

I'm not cutting our best NT... I think Mitchell is just as good. I'm not cutting or 3rd best WR..... I'm culling underperformers.

Whether Mario is here or not, we need to upgrade our WR position, we're going to have to draft some body.

I am also of the opinion that the Texans have more cap room than is being reported. I just don't see 44 players on our roster that add up to $113M.

There's a thread on this site, someone has what appears to be 2012 salary numbers for our 44 players who will still be under contract after March 13 (as of now). It looks like we have $101M tied up, leaving us $23M (if the cap is $124M) plus the $1M we can roll over from 2011 & the $3M we can borrow from 2013..... $27M..... we can sign Mario, Foster, & Myers for $18M (cap number) & leaving $5M to chase FA & sign our draft picks.

Dropping Cody, Jjones/KDub, and restructuring Demeco, & any other contract is just good business.

[ckhouston]

Originally Posted by leebigeztx

Did u say cody outperformed his contract? What game are u watching?.They could cut cody tommorrow and the only thing they would miss is his videos. He's easily replaced and doesn't have a market if released. They could bring him back at vet min and give him snap bonuses to fill it out. Hustle guy,that's it. Not to mention he's been a negative.

We had one of ther best defenses in the league. Cody was never going to work according to basically everyone on the planet (who doesnt understand Wades system) but yet we still were at the top. Would we have been #1 all year and never given up any points with Ngata? No. Cody did fine and actually was very impressive for being an undersized interior NT in a new system with no training camp. What game were you watching? I was watching the one where our defense was bad-ass.

[dalemurphy]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

You do understand we can only keep 53 players on our roster.

I'm not cutting our best NT... I think Mitchell is just as good. I'm not cutting or 3rd best WR..... I'm culling underperformers.

Whether Mario is here or not, we need to upgrade our WR position, we're going to have to draft some body.

Dropping Cody, Jjones/KDub, and restructuring Demeco, & any other contract is just good business.

If Mario isn't here, we have real money to spend on a proven WR.

To say Mitchell may become as good or better than Cody is fine. To say he was as good last year is foolish. Again, this is what I don't understand: we had a great defense last season after Mario went down. According to any metric you would like to use, the defense was better after he was injured than it was before. So, now, you want to keep Mario and let go of players that actually contributed heavily to the defense's success. Cody isn't over the hill and he's relatively cheap... It just doesn't make sense. This isn't the NBA. Star players, outside of the QB position, usually don't make the impact that X-Box playing fans think they do.

[leebigeztx]

Originally Posted by ckhouston

We had one of ther best defenses in the league. Cody was never going to work according to basically everyone on the planet (who doesnt understand Wades system) but yet we still were at the top. Would we have been #1 all year and never given up any points with Ngata? No. Cody did fine and actually was very impressive for being an undersized interior NT in a new system with no training camp. What game were you watching? I was watching the one where our defense was bad-ass.

They covered for cody by run blitzing in his gap. When you look at the texans run defense, look at the ypc especially up the middle.

Dalemurphy, cody is average in every sense of the word. There are a couple of guys, mike martin and alaameda taama who can replace cody right now. The washigton kid is a 2nd rd er and the michigan kid will be 2nd/3rd rd. I don't think I even have to address walter and jones replacement.

The point of the article is they can do it without sacrificing the future of the franchise. If I told you the texans could sign mario,foster,meyers and extend cushing and brown and all you had to do is cut lienhart,jj,cody,and walters, are u still against it?

[cbs1507]

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

If Mario isn't here, we have real money to spend on a proven WR.

To say Mitchell may become as good or better than Cody is fine. To say he was as good last year is foolish. Again, this is what I don't understand: we had a great defense last season after Mario went down. According to any metric you would like to use, the defense was better after he was injured than it was before. So, now, you want to keep Mario and let go of players that actually contributed heavily to the defense's success. Cody isn't over the hill and he's relatively cheap... It just doesn't make sense. This isn't the NBA. Star players, outside of the QB position, usually don't make the impact that X-Box playing fans think they do.

I swear some of you Mario haters over-value everyone that is not Mario.

Shaun Cody career stats
http://www.nfl.com/player/shauncody/2506376/profile

Earl Mitchell career stats
http://www.nfl.com/player/earlmitchell/496822/profile

Mitchell has more tackles and just as many sacks last year. He has more sacks in the past 2 seasons than Cody in the past 6. Let's just say we did cut Cody. If that was all that stood between us and signing Mario then I'm down.

But seriously do you think the loss of Shaun Cody is that devastating? We could draft a Kendall Reyes or my favorite Alameda Ta’amu (everybody needs a Polynesian on their defense ). We could get them in the 2nd round and they would be cheaper than what Cody would cost us based on the new rookie pay scale. Are you doubting that we could draft a guy that can get us 23 tackles and 1 sack at the NT position?

[dalemurphy]

Originally Posted by leebigeztx

They covered for cody by run blitzing in his gap. When you look at the texans run defense, look at the ypc especially up the middle.

Dalemurphy, cody is average in every sense of the word. There are a couple of guys, mike martin and alaameda taama who can replace cody right now. The washigton kid is a 2nd rd er and the michigan kid will be 2nd/3rd rd. I don't think I even have to address walter and jones replacement.

The point of the article is they can do it without sacrificing the future of the franchise. If I told you the texans could sign mario,foster,meyers and extend cushing and brown and all you had to do is cut lienhart,jj,cody,and walters, are u still against it?

It depends on the future ramifications. I don't want the Texans to create issues for themselves heading into 2013 and 2014.

I could care less about Leinart. Cuttling Cody is problematic but a consideration. Cutting Walter is a big mistake. I would not do it considering our lack of veteran wide receivers. Our offense is predicated on rhythm, blocking, and continuity. While I would love a more explosive option at WR, I don't want to lose him in a year when we have nothing reliable behind him. I don't mind dumping JJ but it is impossible to cut he and Walter, leaving Lester Jean as the Texans defacto #2 WR heading into the draft. NO thanks!

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

If Mario isn't here, we have real money to spend on a proven WR.

True.... true.

We would also have enough "real" money to chase a proven WR if we were paying league minimum for Wide recievers who produce like two league minimum WRs. That's less than a million dollars. We could & should have $3M max tied up in the receivers we have, instead we have over $7M.... That could be a proven WR plus a couple of low round flyers.

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

To say Mitchell may become as good or better than Cody is fine. To say he was as good last year is foolish. Again, this is what I don't understand: we had a great defense last season after Mario went down. According to any metric you would like to use, the defense was better after he was injured than it was before. So, now, you want to keep Mario and let go of players that actually contributed heavily to the defense's success. Cody isn't over the hill and he's relatively cheap... It just doesn't make sense. This isn't the NBA. Star players, outside of the QB position, usually don't make the impact that X-Box playing fans think they do.

Keep Cody if you want. But Mitchell played on that "great" defense as well as Cody..... probably played as many snaps, or very close. We overpaid Cody to lure him to the great sport city of Houston. Just like we overpaid for Antonio Smth. Again, we should be paying league minimum for the production we get out of Cody.

& as good as this defense was in 2011, we get better by adding a dynamic, freak of an athlete versatile enough to play OLB in a 3-4 or DE in a 4-3, just like Wade likes to play it. We can go to FA & try to find that guy, who'll work in this system, in this locker room, with this coach, in this city. We can go to the draft & find that raw athlete who's game can translate to the NFL, who'll work in this system, in this locker room, with this coach, in this city, who knows how to be a pro.

Or, we can be thankful for the bird in our hand. Offer him a fair deal, negotiate out of good faith. If it happens, it happens. If not.... plan B.