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Old 03-01-2012   #61
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Soooo he'll be slow in May? Is that motorized scooter slow or racing foot speed slow? Hahaha
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Old 03-02-2012   #62
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http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans...ter-condition/

Schaub rehab article in today's Chronicle.
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Old 03-02-2012   #63
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Either there's some real nice P.R. effort being coordinated here by the Texans and Schaub, or he's going to be a miracle.

Some say I'm hatin' and that's not what I'm doing. I'm trying to understand how an NFL QB is going to come back from that severe of a Lisfranc injury...this quickly.

We all know Schaub > Yates. I just don't know that Lisfranc Schaub is > Yates.

Did anybody read the part where it says only a tiny screw will be the remaining item left in his foot to hold the ligament to the bone??? That must be a damn awesome screw. I hope it's coarse threaded.
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Old 03-02-2012   #64
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If he's doing all-out team practices in camp, who wants to bet that Kubiak doesn't even allow the d line on the practice field, and LBs cannot rush...not even at half speed?

They're going to allow ZERO chance that somebody rolls onto his foot.
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Old 03-02-2012   #65
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Default Re: Kubiak says Schaub should be full-speed by May.

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Did anybody read the part where it says only a tiny screw will be the remaining item left in his foot to hold the ligament to the bone??? That must be a damn awesome screw. I hope it's coarse threaded.
That "tiny" screw is the longest one. (about an inch and a half long) The fact that it's being left in is indicative of the severity of the injury. (comminuted or shattered bone) New bone has calcified around the screw. The others (how many?) can be "unscrewed". The one being left in would require the bone to be re-fractured. It will eventually break from stress.

I truly wish I didn't know so much about this subject. Schaub and the Texans are not doing themselves any favors with these PR-based premature statements. It's going to come back to haunt them.

The part that I really laughed at, was that bit about the hardware in his foot setting off the alarms at the airport. I've still got 2 plates and 12 screws still in my foot, and I have NEVER set those things off.
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Old 03-02-2012   #66
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Default Re: Kubiak says Schaub should be full-speed by May.

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That "tiny" screw is the longest one. (about an inch and a half long) The fact that it's being left in is indicative of the severity of the injury. (comminuted or shattered bone) New bone has calcified around the screw. The others (how many?) can be "unscrewed". The one being left in would require the bone to be re-fractured. It will eventually break from stress.

I truly wish I didn't know so much about this subject. Schaub and the Texans are not doing themselves any favors with these PR-based premature statements. It's going to come back to haunt them.

The part that I really laughed at, was that bit about the hardware in his foot setting off the alarms at the airport. I've still got 2 plates and 12 screws still in my foot, and I have NEVER set those things off.
That's a pretty definitive statement...

Are you sure about all of this? When do you see Schaub being able to start?
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Old 03-02-2012   #67
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Default Re: Kubiak says Schaub should be full-speed by May.

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That's a pretty definitive statement...

Are you sure about all of this? When do you see Schaub being able to start?
Well, let's put it this way. If he's the starter at the beginning of the season, I'll have a lot of crow to eat, I know that.
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Old 03-02-2012   #68
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Default Re: Kubiak says Schaub should be full-speed by May.

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I can't understand how people have come to a conclusion after 1 half of a game where frankly, Leinart played decently. Like, either way, good or bad conclusions. He didn't set any fires or put any fires out. It was 1 half. 1.

I think we all know that the Texan's will shine up any injury and make it look like it wasn't that bad. I think we all know Schaub still has a long way to go.
This.

Also, has anyone given thought to the idea that regardless of keeping positive, maybe the team doesn't want to publish any more information than they need to, to keep others from trying to figure out what they're going to do in the draft?

Yes, teams should draft according to their needs, but you can't count on that, especially now that they don't have to fork over the national GDP on the salary of a first rounder
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Old 03-02-2012   #69
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Default Re: Kubiak says Schaub should be full-speed by May.

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That "tiny" screw is the longest one. (about an inch and a half long) The fact that it's being left in is indicative of the severity of the injury. (comminuted or shattered bone) New bone has calcified around the screw. The others (how many?) can be "unscrewed". The one being left in would require the bone to be re-fractured. It will eventually break from stress.

I truly wish I didn't know so much about this subject. Schaub and the Texans are not doing themselves any favors with these PR-based premature statements. It's going to come back to haunt them.

The part that I really laughed at, was that bit about the hardware in his foot setting off the alarms at the airport. I've still got 2 plates and 12 screws still in my foot, and I have NEVER set those things off.
This is what makes me nervous about these good reports we're being fed.

The previous laughable bit of P.R. was how Schaub contacted Kubiak, according to Kubiak's own words, and asked "Hey coach, want to catch a round of golf?"

Now, Gary never explained in more detail, such as "Ya' know, shucks, I think he's not ready to go for 18 holes of golf yet, but it speaks to his mindset. He's working hard to stay on track. blah blah blah" Instead, the comment was left to hover....no qualification of the remark, just let it hover there.

Now there's the McClain article, from a guy who at this stage of his affiliation with the Texans will no doubt lap up every bit of "inside info" he can get. They've got old John trained real good, IMO. He'd report whatever falls into his lap and never scrutinize it. Or else.

To clarify to everyone before you go all flaming angry on me: I'm a skeptic. Not a hater. Just a skeptic.
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Old 03-02-2012   #70
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Default Re: Kubiak says Schaub should be full-speed by May.

I tend to believe the longtime poster who has experienced this injury and subsequent surgery/rehab and our resident doctor who has been very accurate, over trusting the media/marketing savvy corporation trying protect and promote their brand.

The Texans history is one of CIA confidentiality and smoke screens about injuries - FROM THE VERY FIRST YEAR. Why would I be inclined to trust them now, when what they are trying to sell flies in the face of common knowledge from those who are educated about it from experience and profession?

I'm on the side of Marcus and CnD, and I'll be happy to eat some crow of Schaub is starting week 1 of the 2012 season. Don't forget, this is also the time of season ticket renewals and trade talks.
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Old 03-02-2012   #71
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Default Re: Kubiak says Schaub should be full-speed by May.

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I tend to believe the longtime poster who has experienced this injury and subsequent surgery/rehab and our resident doctor who has been very accurate, over trusting the media/marketing savvy corporation trying protect and promote their brand.

The Texans history is one of CIA confidentiality and smoke screens about injuries - FROM THE VERY FIRST YEAR. Why would I be inclined to trust them now, when what they are trying to sell flies in the face of common knowledge from those who are educated about it from experience and profession?

I'm on the side of Marcus and CnD, and I'll be happy to eat some crow of Schaub is starting week 1 of the 2012 season. Don't forget, this is also the time of season ticket renewals and trade talks.
I think you were replying to my question. If not, disregard.

I was posting more of a, "keep in mind that the team may have more than just one or two reasons to provide misinformation/lies to the public" rather than "why do you believe other contributers over team PR".

I have never put value in what GK publicizes, though that comes from the fantasy football side of me rather than a distrust of the team. Then again, I don't usually put stock in what any corporation tries to spoon feed the public.
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Old 03-02-2012   #72
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Default Re: Kubiak says Schaub should be full-speed by May.

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
I tend to believe the longtime poster who has experienced this injury and subsequent surgery/rehab and our resident doctor who has been very accurate, over trusting the media/marketing savvy corporation trying protect and promote their brand.

The Texans history is one of CIA confidentiality and smoke screens about injuries - FROM THE VERY FIRST YEAR. Why would I be inclined to trust them now, when what they are trying to sell flies in the face of common knowledge from those who are educated about it from experience and profession?

I'm on the side of Marcus and CnD, and I'll be happy to eat some crow of Schaub is starting week 1 of the 2012 season. Don't forget, this is also the time of season ticket renewals and trade talks.
Yep.

I think it's in our nature to WANT to believe good news. Heck, I do!

Good news makes our fears subside. It calms us.

Without Marcus or CnD here, I would have known very little about all this stuff. None of us would, unless somebody had stepped up to the plate to really dig into the topic more. Without CnD's medical knowledge and experience and connections in this field, and without Marcus' very unfortunate personal Lisfranc experience, we would not be able to offset the "good news" reports being distributed at various timely intervals.

I keep saying it, and I still believe it to be true: If Schaub recovers AND maintains a steady level of QB play AND does this before mid reg season 2012 it will mean almost a miracle of some sorts. He will defy the odds if that happens. I want it to happen, for selfish reasons as a fan, but I don't think it does.

Two things happened when Kubiak became coach here: (A) We started hearing less from them, in terms of comparing it to the Capers/Casserly era and how they were unusually open with information, and (B) We had to buckle down and really become students of the game in a whole new way, particularly the understanding of what is going on and what's real and what's manufactured.
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Old 03-02-2012   #73
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Default Re: Kubiak says Schaub should be full-speed by May.

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I think you were replying to my question. If not, disregard.

I was posting more of a, "keep in mind that the team may have more than just one or two reasons to provide misinformation/lies to the public" rather than "why do you believe other contributers over team PR".

I have never put value in what GK publicizes, though that comes from the fantasy football side of me rather than a distrust of the team. Then again, I don't usually put stock in what any corporation tries to spoon feed the public.
For sure. It's not smart to come out and say "Schaub is not going to be playing a real game as QB until about week 6." That's information we would never want opponents to learn at this stage. We want them to guess whether he returns week 1, or week 2, or week 3.

This will be the Andre Johnson "unless he has a setback he'll go this Sunday" saga all over again. It makes teams work on preparing for Yates AND Schaub, just in case. And if we should trot Schaub out in week 3, that week 3 team is gonna' be screwed if they played their cards wrongly in the week leading up the matchup if they thought they'd be facing Yates.

I agree with you 100% here.
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Old 03-02-2012   #74
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Default Re: Kubiak says Schaub should be full-speed by May.

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
I tend to believe the longtime poster who has experienced this injury and subsequent surgery/rehab and our resident doctor who has been very accurate, over trusting the media/marketing savvy corporation trying protect and promote their brand.

The Texans history is one of CIA confidentiality and smoke screens about injuries - FROM THE VERY FIRST YEAR. Why would I be inclined to trust them now, when what they are trying to sell flies in the face of common knowledge from those who are educated about it from experience and profession?

I'm on the side of Marcus and CnD, and I'll be happy to eat some crow of Schaub is starting week 1 of the 2012 season. Don't forget, this is also the time of season ticket renewals and trade talks.
I agree with all of this and I am a believer in what CnD and Marcus has stated.

When I ask questions it isn't to discredit what they are saying, it's to get further understanding...

I don't know what they Texans are planning, but from everything I've heard/read they shouldn't be depending on Matt for next season period.
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Old 03-03-2012   #75
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Default Re: Kubiak says Schaub should be full-speed by May.

I'm not cnd or marcus, but I posted based on other guys with the same injury. I said before, this is yates team because schaub won't be ready till basically a year from when he went down. That's. Being very aggressive with the estimation. Some guys never comeback from this injury regradless of if they're mobile or not. I laugh when people say schaub isn't athletic and he doest need his mobility. I imagine none of these guys watched marino post achilles tear. He wasn't mobile, still had a cannon and quick release and it pretty much ended his career. Pulling away from center and setting up with no mobility kills any qb. It would especially kill a guy with an average arm like schaub who already has sow feet. Schaub is done as a texan. When he comes back, unless tj is stinking it up, he will be on the bench watching. It sucks,but that's football sometimes.
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Old 03-04-2012   #76
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Default Re: Kubiak says Schaub should be full-speed by May.

I think he will be ready to go by week 2-3 if not week one.
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Old 03-05-2012   #77
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Default Re: Kubiak says Schaub should be full-speed by May.

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I think he will be ready to go by week 2-3 if not week one.
I *think* you're dead ass wrong. I'll be surprised if Matt takes another snap under center.

Could be wrong of course but there's too much out there stacked against him.

Really wanna be wrong but with TJ getting all the #1 reps all the way through I think we'll be OK.

JMO
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Old 03-05-2012   #78
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Default Re: Kubiak says Schaub should be full-speed by May.

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I *think* you're dead ass wrong. I'll be surprised if Matt takes another snap under center.

Could be wrong of course but there's too much out there stacked against him.

Really wanna be wrong but with TJ getting all the #1 reps all the way through I think we'll be OK.

JMO
+1

I have a really bad feeling about this.
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Old 03-06-2012   #79
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Default Re: Kubiak says Schaub should be full-speed by May.

As GP alluded to, Marcus has the unfortunate experience of having gained his experience first hand. Trying to help redirect him from a surgeon who apparently had poor knowledge and a poor approach to his Lisfranc situation to the physician who ultimately performed the difficult repair, is when I first "met" Marcus. As bad as it has been, Marcus is quite modest in relating the long and traumatic road that he has travelled. All my respect to you, Marcus. You never gave up........or let up.

Now, let's look at where we may be with Schaub.

This is where the most crucial stabilizing ligament in a Lisfanc injury is torn.





For the the foot to regain stability, this connection must be restabilized with hardware until it has an opportunity to heal and regain strength.. In Schaub's case this was reportedly performed with the use of screws.


Below is an example of a Lisfranc stabilization. Note the diagonal screw that follows the course of the Lisfranc ligament shown above.





Because the plates or screws will be placed across joints that normally are expected to have some motion, this hardware is usually removed somewhere between 3 and 6 months after surgery at the surgeon's discretion and according to the healing progress. The hardware removal is performed because when stresses are placed on them, they can break. Just as a paperclip will fail if bent repeatedly, hardware metal (in this case, screws) can fatigue and fail under stress conditions further comlicating the "recovery." It has been reported that anywhere between 25% to 50% of these hardware-repaired patients may fail and go on to require permanent bone fusion of the joint(s) resulting in the entire loss of joint mobility. In fact, as high as 75% reoperation rate for reasons other than hardware removal has been reported

Furthermore, the goal of any surgery addressing a Lisfranc injury is not only to restore the patient's anatomy, but also to preserve the involved joints. There are numerous studies implicating traumatic impact as sources of cartilage death. Transarticular (through the joint) screw placement requires drilling across an intact cartilage layer that has already sustained traumatic insult. This “second hit” may exacerbate an already complicated problem, and, potentially, accelerate the posttraumatic arthritic process. Extra-articular (outside the joint) bridge plate fixation (see below) offers a means of addressing these Lisfranc injuries without joint violation........i.e., without the screws going the the joints). But there is no mention of plates being utilized in Schaub's case.





Of course, Schaub could have a perfectly functional recovery. No one can say positively otherwise at this point. But all of the stars will have to be in very accomodating alignment. He has quite a number of obstacles he must overcome. Regaining movement. Overcoming usually significant pain.......sometimes chronic, permanent and debilitating. Avoiding the fear of re-injury. Avoiding re-injury.......even when not playing against Haynesworth. Being able to maximize stress on his back plant leg while passing. Pushing off during play action or avoiding the rush.

Yes, Schaub will be able to return to the field at one point in time. But for how long and how functional?...........maybe for a couple of days after which he and the coaches decide it isn't going to "happen"...............or for a couple of Super Bowls...............or somewhere in between. Although we have been told that he suffered several fractures in his Lisfranc injury, we don't really have all the details of his injury, which makes predictions that much more difficult to offer. One thing we do know is that ANY Lisfranc injury is very serious injury for all of those that must at least walk around for a living.
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Old 03-06-2012   #80
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Default Re: Kubiak says Schaub should be full-speed by May.

Thanks doc msr
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