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Demeco's contract and Mario Williams...

R

Rey

Guest
Would you cut Demeco to re-sign Mario?

There was talk on the radio last night that the Texans would likely ask Demeco to re-structure his deal and if he refused to do so they'd essentially say "we enjoyed you, we love you, but you are making too much"...

With Cushing obviously being the Alpha LB on the team now, would you be willing to pay both of those guys monster money and then have a prolem with some other guys down the road?

I know everyone loves Demeco, but take emotions out of it for a second...

Hell, take Mario Williams out of it for a second...

Is Demeco Making too much money?
 
Rey said:
Would you cut Demeco to re-sign Mario?

There was talk on the radio last night that the Texans would likely ask Demeco to re-structure his deal and if he refused to do so they'd essentially say "we enjoyed you, we love you, but you are making too much"...

With Cushing obviously being the Alpha LB on the team now, would you be willing to pay both of those guys monster money and then have a prolem with some other guys down the road?

I know everyone loves Demeco, but take emotions out of it for a second...

Hell, take Mario Williams out of it for a second...

Is Demeco Making too much money?
Click to expand...


I don't think so. He rightfully earned that contract with his play and he came off of major surgery and performed pretty well and started hitting his stride towards the end of the season and in playoffs.
 
Ryan said:
I don't think so. He rightfully earned that contract with his play and he came off of major surgery and performed pretty well and started hitting his stride towards the end of the season and in playoffs.
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I agree whole heartedly with this. Though I would love it if he were willing to restructure :hurrah:
 
Ryan said:
I don't think so. He rightfully earned that contract with his play and he came off of major surgery and performed pretty well and started hitting his stride towards the end of the season and in playoffs.
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I get what you are saying...


Does his deal in anyway hinder the team moving forward though? Is this a heart decision or a brain decision on your part?
 
Given the fact that Demeco's deal is only two years old, and has already been restructured once, I would doubt that releasing him would create much additional cap space for the 2012 season.
 
Rey said:
I get what you are saying...


Does his deal in anyway hinder the team moving forward though? Is this a heart decision or a brain decision on your part?
Click to expand...


Well I definitely think he'd be willing to restructure. It may be a heart decision on my part, but my brain tells me he's not making too much to downright cut him.
 
I think Ryans rebounds due to better health. He should earn his contract $. My answer is no.
 
Rey said:
Would you cut Demeco to re-sign Mario?

There was talk on the radio last night that the Texans would likely ask Demeco to re-structure his deal and if he refused to do so they'd essentially say "we enjoyed you, we love you, but you are making too much"...

With Cushing obviously being the Alpha LB on the team now, would you be willing to pay both of those guys monster money and then have a prolem with some other guys down the road?

I know everyone loves Demeco, but take emotions out of it for a second...

Hell, take Mario Williams out of it for a second...

Is Demeco Making too much money?
Click to expand...

I dont think so. Players out-play their contracts and they also underperform their contracts. DeMeco is coming back from a bad ACL tear and all he did was stand up every FB he faced and make them pay for rushing up the middle.

What is he making next year? Roughly 6 million? Personally I think he is worth it. Hard worker. Shows the young guns how its done. Goes all out. Good role model in the community. Never in trouble.
 
While Cushing is the Alpha LB now, DeMeco is the heart of this defense.

Ask him to restructure for the good of the team, but losing him should not be an option.

I think Mario will be too expensive, and they did not seem to miss a beat when he got hurt.
 
Double Barrel said:
While Cushing is the Alpha LB now, DeMeco is the heart of this defense.
Ask him to restructure for the good of the team, but losing him should not be an option.

I think Mario will be too expensive, and they did not seem to miss a beat when he got hurt.
Click to expand...

I don't know if I agree with the bolded...

I think it's obvious a lot of players look up to Demeco...I think he was looking really good towards the end of the season...I think in our base defense we are right behind Patrick Willis and Navarro Bowman as far as ILB's go...

But I think players feed off of Cushings energy (maybe even JJ Watt and Antonio) more so than Demeco at this point...I think we've got a few guys who are good players now and there realy isn't a central point anymore, but rather a collection of guys getting it done for the most part...
 
I'd say give Demeco another year post-surgery to prove his value to the team.
The guy has been the heart and soul for years and just because he was slowed whilst coming back last season doesn't mean we should cut him and let some other team snap him up.

On the other hand, you don't get paid on past performance, and if it becomes clear next year that he won't get back to where he was, then you have to look at the amount he's earning and change it somehow.
 
You guys see the defense when Demeco was gone? Energy without direction,
and your defense becomes a sieve. He's definitely the brains on the field,
and every good d-coordinator has at least ONE of those guys. Didn't you see
him run the alignments when Atlanta tried to no-huddle? It's the small things
that pay off big in this game.
 
I have no problem losing Demeco. He didn't even play the majority of snaps this year if I'm not mistaken. In a 3-4 defense, the ILBs are supposed to be tackle machines. Even Jay Forman outperformed Ryans as the #2 ILB in a 3-4.

I love the guy, love his leadership, but he's no longer elite in this system and I would rather spend my money on guys like Foster, etc
 
DexmanC said:
You guys see the defense when Demeco was gone? Energy without direction,
and your defense becomes a sieve. He's definitely the brains on the field,
and every good d-coordinator has at least ONE of those guys. Didn't you see
him run the alignments when Atlanta tried to no-huddle? It's the small things
that pay off big in this game.
Click to expand...

He came out whenever we had our nickel and dime packages on the field. He wasn't even in many games for the majority of snaps
 
gtexan02 said:
He came out whenever we had our nickel and dime packages on the field. He wasn't even in many games for the majority of snaps
Click to expand...

I saw dude put Vonta Leach on his ass in a playoff game. When the Texans
were blowing fools out at the start of the year, they played a lot of nickel
and dime because the offense was putting 26-30 on folks.

When the games got tight, you saw the need for Demeco. To say he should
be stiffed on his contract or cut is an insane proposition.

That's all I'm sayin...

Peace.
 
gtexan02 said:
He came out whenever we had our nickel and dime packages on the field. He wasn't even in many games for the majority of snaps
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Brian Urlacher came out in the same game conditions....he went to the Pro Bowl. People latch on to this tidbit way too much. DeMeco looked like his old self late in the year. Ryans would be a big, big loss for this team. Look back two years ago when we lost him....the team wasn't even competitive defensively the rest of the way. We had a decent record till Ryans went down....look at the record once he was injured. We didn't win many games after that.
 
welsh texan said:
I'd say give Demeco another year post-surgery to prove his value to the team.
The guy has been the heart and soul for years and just because he was slowed whilst coming back last season doesn't mean we should cut him and let some other team snap him up.

On the other hand, you don't get paid on past performance, and if it becomes clear next year that he won't get back to where he was, then you have to look at the amount he's earning and change it somehow.
Click to expand...

I thought Demeco actually looked pretty good at the end of this year...He was blowing people up...
 
srrono said:
6 mil a year is for a every down LB
Click to expand...
No it is for a player that team thought it was worth paying to. Again he was injured. Few players agree to pay cuts after an injured year especially if not last year of deal. No one has asked Schaub to lower his 2012 salary due to not being an every down QB
 
srrono said:
6 mil a year is for a every down LB
Click to expand...


I would tend to agree...

My thing is, restructuring doesn't mean that he will get paid less...It can also mean just pushing money back to have money now....

When Cushing's contract is up, we're probably going to have to give him more money than Demeco....

That't going to be quite a bit tied up into that position...
 
Rey said:
I would tend to agree...

My thing is, restructuring doesn't mean that he will get paid less...It can also mean just pushing money back to have money now....

When Cushing's contract is up, we're probably going to have to give him more money than Demeco....

That't going to be quite a bit tied up into that position...
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Push it back to where? When we have to sign Barwin and Brown? Or back to when we have to sign Cushing and Ben Tate?
 
Super Mario said:
Push it back to where? When we have to sign Barwin and Brown? Or back to when we have to sign Cushing and Ben Tate?
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I have no idea...That depends on Rick Smith and his cap guy...

My point though is that if it gets pushed back he's going to have an even bigger salary on the back half of his contract...
 
badboy said:
No it is for a player that team thought it was worth paying to. Again he was injured. Few players agree to pay cuts after an injured year especially if not last year of deal. No one has asked Schaub to lower his 2012 salary due to not being an every down QB
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If I'm not mistaken we were still a 4-3 team when he signed his contract...Demeco was on the field every defensive snap and we didn't use a safety to play nick LB....

So I agree that at the time they felt like he was worth that money...

Do they feel that way now? I don't know. Maybe they value his leadership and steadiness that much...Maybe they think the entire year he will be at the level that he was toward the end of last year...

I don't know, but I do think that it's a legitimate concern with regards to his contract and his role on the team now and in the future...
 
Rey said:
If I'm not mistaken we were still a 4-3 team when he signed his contract...Demeco was on the field every defensive snap and we didn't use a safety to play nick LB....

So I agree that at the time they felt like he was worth that money...

Do they feel that way now? I don't know. Maybe they value his leadership and steadiness that much...Maybe they think the entire year he will be at the level that he was toward the end of last year...

I don't know, but I do think that it's a legitimate concern with regards to his contract and his role on the team now and in the future...
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I tend to agree with your take on this one Rey, your earlier point about how Demeco came along late in the year in particular. I actually think that arm problem held him back a lot more than people really talked about, when he first put that brace on he looked extremely hesitant and as that began to get better so did his play.

The problem really is the 'every-down' LB problem, and also, even in the bad years drafting for D, we've always done well at getting LB's to perform early. What will be telling is, if Demeco is healthier at the start of next season (which he should be) will the scheme suddenly change and he doesn't have a LB come down into his position in Nickle & Dime

Then there is always that nagging doubt in the back of my mind, Cloak said that players coming back from his injury almost always give their best performance in the first year back, and then go on a decline until they find themselves out of the league.

Demeco is the heart and soul, Cushing is the best player, and moving into his fourth season will surely be getting to the stage where his leadership is developing to a point where he may be able to take over that role.

I give Demeco another year, I see how he copes, is he going to be, long term, the player we're playing for, or does his contract no longer reflect his play?

Its harsh, but its the way the NFL works, you can't hang around waiting on guys in the salary cap era, you can't pay guys on the basis that they played above a rookie contract for years. Thats the way it works.
 
DexmanC said:
You guys see the defense when Demeco was gone? Energy without direction,
and your defense becomes a sieve. He's definitely the brains on the field,
and every good d-coordinator has at least ONE of those guys. Didn't you see
him run the alignments when Atlanta tried to no-huddle? It's the small things
that pay off big in this game.
Click to expand...

This.

Ryan's is the leader of this team.

Cushing is a firebrand but you need to control that and direct it, hence Ryan's.
 
Vinny said:
Brian Urlacher came out in the same game conditions....he went to the Pro Bowl. People latch on to this tidbit way too much. DeMeco looked like his old self late in the year. Ryans would be a big, big loss for this team. Look back two years ago when we lost him....the team wasn't even competitive defensively the rest of the way. We had a decent record till Ryans went down....look at the record once he was injured. We didn't win many games after that.
Click to expand...

And here I thought we didn't win many games after that because we didn't have a decent defensive coordinator. Shows how much I know.
 
This is what makes or breaks "on the cusp" teams, IMO...the decisions about who you keep and who you let go.

Keep the right guys and let go of the downward-trending players, and you stay within the cap and your team can grow. Keep the wrong guys and let go of the upward-trending guys, and the cap will limit you until you can get rid of those salaries of players you shouldn't have kept for an extra few seasons.

This is where a GM, an owner, and a head coach take an "on the cusp" team and make it great...or they botch it and it's back to being mediocre again.

I do not envy the decisions those three guys are going to make. You've got a draft coming up, but who knows that you will hit on a JJ Watt and Brooks Reed and TJ Yates again??? What if you get the next Amobi Okoye or the next Travis Johnson or the next Wali Lundy? Oops...you better hope you made the right calls in free agency. Or else.

The OP said we should try to take emotions out of it. But damn if it isn't hard to do that! You don't want to see any of 'em go. DeMeco is a Ray Lewis type presence, to an extent. He calms those storms for the guys around him, he is very smart about what he's seeing pre-snap, and he's tough as nails. Now, what you "pay" that type of guy...I am not sure...but it's hard to let that guy sail away when you look at him, historically, as a Texans LB and what he's meant here.
 
i like meco, but run stuffing ilbs, you can find alot easier between FA & the NFL draft. I think a guy like london fletcher..as old as he is, could do just as well as meco. how much he makes i don't know.
 
If you cut Demeco to keep Mario what type of message are you sending to the team. Are you serious! Demeco has been the heart and soul of his defense. Mario has never even been close to the heart and soul in fact I may go as far as to say he has been a negative influence in regards to giving it his all. Mario is the country club attitude that was referred to in one of the articles describing how the defense has changed. I don't want the other players on the D to take on Mario's attitude. You are saying because Demeco was injured and the defense has changed cut him to keep a player that has been injured the last 2 years. C'mon Man.
 
I think McNair would love to hang AJ's, Demeco, and Mario's jerseys in the stadium eventually. Aaron Glenn would get an honorable mention if that exists.
 
This was a major topic on another site I frequent.

Ryans position is MUCH easier to replace if we had to. He IS making too much based on his ability this past season (he can get better but that is an uncertainty). Doesn't matter if he EarnED his contract, its a what have you done for me lately league and he simply is not worth that much RIGHT NOW.

Mario on the other hand was basically replaced this season (he would get his old job, but the point is we did fine without him). He will command a MASSIVE contract and it could POTENTIALLY affect our ability to sign guys down the road and upcoming this off-season. But his position is of GREAT importance and you can never have too many pass rushers.

This will be the toughest choice to date IMO, because Ryans is in the driver seat. He doesn't have to re-structure, and if he were to be cut our locker room would be very mad at the front office would affect the atmosphere and the ability to trust Rick Smith. I honestly think they are going to have to either sign Mario for cheap with what we got or let him walk. Im all for letting him go, but I really wish we would try to tag and trade him, even if it will be hard to do, we REALLY should try because letting him go for nothing would be foolish.

Looks like Smith will FINALLY earn his money.....
 
amazing80 said:
This was a major topic on another site I frequent.

Ryans position is MUCH easier to replace if we had to. He IS making too much based on his ability this past season (he can get better but that is an uncertainty). Doesn't matter if he EarnED his contract, its a what have you done for me lately league and he simply is not worth that much RIGHT NOW.

Mario on the other hand was basically replaced this season (he would get his old job, but the point is we did fine without him). He will command a MASSIVE contract and it could POTENTIALLY affect our ability to sign guys down the road and upcoming this off-season. But his position is of GREAT importance and you can never have too many pass rushers.

This will be the toughest choice to date IMO, because Ryans is in the driver seat. He doesn't have to re-structure, and if he were to be cut our locker room would be very mad at the front office would affect the atmosphere and the ability to trust Rick Smith. I honestly think they are going to have to either sign Mario for cheap with what we got or let him walk. Im all for letting him go, but I really wish we would try to tag and trade him, even if it will be hard to do, we REALLY should try because letting him go for nothing would be foolish.

Looks like Smith will FINALLY earn his money.....
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Mario not signing for cheap and I don't blame him for not doing so. If Smith can get a tag and trade then he is the man. I stated back in 4/2011 that I wanted to trade Mario then because I agree getting NOTHING for him really hurts the team and I felt that if he wasn't traded then we would get nothing for Mario no matter what happened during the year.
 
Last edited:
Rey said:
I get what you are saying...


Does his deal in anyway hinder the team moving forward though? Is this a heart decision or a brain decision on your part?
Click to expand...

The answer to the bold is yes.

Ive said in multiple threads that I think Ryans contract has to be reworked. He will have a cap number of around $8.5m. for the coming season.

There are a few others who could get reworked as well - #80 , OD and Winston among them as well as possibly Antonio Smith and Schaub in some sort of extension(s).

Couple that with J.Jones and Leinart (possibly others) being cap casualty cuts ....
 
amazing80 said:
This was a major topic on another site I frequent.

Ryans position is MUCH easier to replace if we had to. He IS making too much based on his ability this past season (he can get better but that is an uncertainty). Doesn't matter if he EarnED his contract, its a what have you done for me lately league and he simply is not worth that much RIGHT NOW.

Mario on the other hand was basically replaced this season (he would get his old job, but the point is we did fine without him). He will command a MASSIVE contract and it could POTENTIALLY affect our ability to sign guys down the road and upcoming this off-season. But his position is of GREAT importance and you can never have too many pass rushers.

This will be the toughest choice to date IMO, because Ryans is in the driver seat. He doesn't have to re-structure, and if he were to be cut our locker room would be very mad at the front office would affect the atmosphere and the ability to trust Rick Smith. I honestly think they are going to have to either sign Mario for cheap with what we got or let him walk. Im all for letting him go, but I really wish we would try to tag and trade him, even if it will be hard to do, we REALLY should try because letting him go for nothing would be foolish.

Looks like Smith will FINALLY earn his money.....
Click to expand...
MSR! I mostly agree with this, but am 100% against trying to tag and trade Mario. It would take a blood oath and hostages from the other team to get me to do this. Way too much liability if the other team reneges.
As far as Ryans, I would definitely explore restructuring his deal, but there's no way I would cut him. To repeat a lot of other posts, he really came on at the end of the season and he is the unquestioned heart and soul of the defense. If Cush has a 2012 like 2011, that may well change, but I wouldn;t want to mess with the chemistry this team has. If Mario leaves, it will be understood in the locker room. If Ryans goes, it will be understood also, but in a much different light.
 
I would not do that, and it will not happen as a 1 for 1. The question is, who gets released and restructured to invest in Mario, Foster, Myers and Brisiel.

Demeco's value to the ascension of the defense showed last year. We all knew, since the first season, that this guy would be the glue of a championship team somewhere down the line. I have questioned his speed at times, before the injury and many times after, but the value he provides to the defense, at this juncture in the Texans' northeast track, is priceless.
 
So you guys are not worried about Ryans playing ability as long as he can hold pom poms?
2ryg4ls.jpg
[/IMG]

The better teams such as PIT get rid of players on the down slope to keep the team on top. 8.5 mil towards the cap is crazy money for a under performing ILB on a 34 defense. The OLB in the 34 are normally the higher paid players.
 
I don't. Believe this is a Mario or Demeco deal any more than I believe this is a Mario or Foster deal.

However, if I had to choose, I'd choose Mario. Which one is going to command the biggest interest in Free Agency? Which one is going to be more difficult to replace?

I know a lot of people think we've already replaced Mario, I just don't see it that way.
 
srrono said:
So you guys are not worried about Ryans playing ability as long as he can hold pom poms?
2ryg4ls.jpg
[/IMG]

The better teams such as PIT get rid of players on the down slope to keep the team on top. 8.5 mil towards the cap is crazy money for a under performing ILB on a 34 defense. The OLB in the 34 are normally the higher paid players.
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Who says Ryans is on the downslope of his career? He damned sure didn't look like it in the last 6-7 weeks. He looked like a player recovering from 2 serious injuries. The achilles injury is definitely the biggest, but do you really expect tackling machine from a guy with a brace the size of a smart car on his elbow? I say Ryans did pretty damned well in '11.
 
DocBar said:
Who says Ryans is on the downslope of his career? He damned sure didn't look like it in the last 6-7 weeks. He looked like a player recovering from 2 serious injuries. The achilles injury is definitely the biggest, but do you really expect tackling machine from a guy with a brace the size of a smart car on his elbow? I say Ryans did pretty damned well in '11.
Click to expand...

I agree, adding a healthy Demeco & Mario is going to be like adding two dynamic free agents to our front seven. I'm very excited to see this defense next year.


We're going to blow the top off the league next year.
 
thunderkyss said:
I agree, adding a healthy Demeco & Mario is going to be like adding two dynamic free agents to our front seven. I'm very excited to see this defense next year.


We're going to blow the top off the league next year.
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IF he can be the Ryans of old I still think his contract should be reconstructed 8.5mil for ILB in 34 is way overpaid. MLB in a 43 gets 8.5mil as a pro bowl MLB, but HOU is no longer a 43. That cap number needs to come down.
 
srrono said:
IF he can be the Ryans of old I still think his contract should be reconstructed 8.5mil for ILB in 34 is way overpaid. MLB in a 43 gets 8.5mil as a pro bowl MLB, but HOU is no longer a 43. That cap number needs to come down.
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As was stated a few posts ago, Mr. McNair told Ryans he would take care of him & did. He is overpaying some for Demeco over performing his first contract. Kind of employer most of us want. Then Demeo was injured so you have to understand the parameters of the situation. I wonder how you'd talk if the same things were happening to you. If you over performed & boss volunteered to make it up but you were then hurt, I doubt you'd give back a nickle. Does Demeco appear on the surface to be overpaid for 2011? Yes, but due to a correction of first deal and being hurt.
 
badboy said:
As was stated a few posts ago, Mr. McNair told Ryans he would take care of him & did. He is overpaying some for Demeco over performing his first contract. Kind of employer most of us want. Then Demeo was injured so you have to understand the parameters of the situation. I wonder how you'd talk if the same things were happening to you. If you over performed & boss volunteered to make it up but you were then hurt, I doubt you'd give back a nickle. Does Demeco appear on the surface to be overpaid for 2011? Yes, but due to a correction of first deal and being hurt.
Click to expand...

this is the NFL not burger king. NFL = Not For Long if under performing.
 
srrono said:
this is the NFL not burger king. NFL = Not For Long if under performing.
Click to expand...

DeMeco was third on the team in tackles with 68. Second in tackles for loss with 6. He had 4 passes defensed - third among our LBs. He was a key piece of a defense that was in the top ten for most of the year. All this while battling back from a season-ending injury, learning a new defense and being taken off the field on 3rd & long.

So please... tell me what metrics you're using to justify this "he underperformed" assessment.... or alternatively, point out which ILB, currently on our roster, would have performed better?
 
ObsiWan said:
DeMeco was third on the team in tackles with 68. Second in tackles for loss with 6. He had 4 passes defensed - third among our LBs. He was a key piece of a defense that was in the top ten for most of the year. All this while battling back from a season-ending injury, learning a new defense and being taken off the field on 3rd & long.

So please... tell me what metrics you're using to justify this "he underperformed" assessment.... or alternatively, point out which ILB, currently on our roster, would have performed better?
Click to expand...

Plus he is the intellectual and emotional leader of the D. He both fires them up but then cools down those like Cushing and Smith when they need it just before getting them into exactly the right place for Wade's scheme. I know all this can't be seen through a TV but folks seriously if you watch DeMeco from the sidelines he is not overpaid.
 
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