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Old 02-17-2012   #21
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Default Re: Demeco's contract and Mario Williams...

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Originally Posted by welsh texan View Post
I'd say give Demeco another year post-surgery to prove his value to the team.
The guy has been the heart and soul for years and just because he was slowed whilst coming back last season doesn't mean we should cut him and let some other team snap him up.

On the other hand, you don't get paid on past performance, and if it becomes clear next year that he won't get back to where he was, then you have to look at the amount he's earning and change it somehow.
I thought Demeco actually looked pretty good at the end of this year...He was blowing people up...
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Old 02-17-2012   #22
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Default Re: Demeco's contract and Mario Williams...

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Originally Posted by srrono View Post
6 mil a year is for a every down LB
You are being to narrow sighted. He brings more to the team and position than just being a 2 or 3 down linebacker.
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Old 02-17-2012   #23
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Default Re: Demeco's contract and Mario Williams...

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Originally Posted by srrono View Post
6 mil a year is for a every down LB
No it is for a player that team thought it was worth paying to. Again he was injured. Few players agree to pay cuts after an injured year especially if not last year of deal. No one has asked Schaub to lower his 2012 salary due to not being an every down QB
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Old 02-17-2012   #24
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Default Re: Demeco's contract and Mario Williams...

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Originally Posted by srrono View Post
6 mil a year is for a every down LB

I would tend to agree...

My thing is, restructuring doesn't mean that he will get paid less...It can also mean just pushing money back to have money now....

When Cushing's contract is up, we're probably going to have to give him more money than Demeco....

That't going to be quite a bit tied up into that position...
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Old 02-17-2012   #25
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Default Re: Demeco's contract and Mario Williams...

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
I would tend to agree...

My thing is, restructuring doesn't mean that he will get paid less...It can also mean just pushing money back to have money now....

When Cushing's contract is up, we're probably going to have to give him more money than Demeco....

That't going to be quite a bit tied up into that position...
Push it back to where? When we have to sign Barwin and Brown? Or back to when we have to sign Cushing and Ben Tate?
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Old 02-17-2012   #26
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Default Re: Demeco's contract and Mario Williams...

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Push it back to where? When we have to sign Barwin and Brown? Or back to when we have to sign Cushing and Ben Tate?
I have no idea...That depends on Rick Smith and his cap guy...

My point though is that if it gets pushed back he's going to have an even bigger salary on the back half of his contract...
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Old 02-17-2012   #27
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Default Re: Demeco's contract and Mario Williams...

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No it is for a player that team thought it was worth paying to. Again he was injured. Few players agree to pay cuts after an injured year especially if not last year of deal. No one has asked Schaub to lower his 2012 salary due to not being an every down QB
If I'm not mistaken we were still a 4-3 team when he signed his contract...Demeco was on the field every defensive snap and we didn't use a safety to play nick LB....

So I agree that at the time they felt like he was worth that money...

Do they feel that way now? I don't know. Maybe they value his leadership and steadiness that much...Maybe they think the entire year he will be at the level that he was toward the end of last year...

I don't know, but I do think that it's a legitimate concern with regards to his contract and his role on the team now and in the future...
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Old 02-17-2012   #28
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Default Re: Demeco's contract and Mario Williams...

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
If I'm not mistaken we were still a 4-3 team when he signed his contract...Demeco was on the field every defensive snap and we didn't use a safety to play nick LB....

So I agree that at the time they felt like he was worth that money...

Do they feel that way now? I don't know. Maybe they value his leadership and steadiness that much...Maybe they think the entire year he will be at the level that he was toward the end of last year...

I don't know, but I do think that it's a legitimate concern with regards to his contract and his role on the team now and in the future...
I tend to agree with your take on this one Rey, your earlier point about how Demeco came along late in the year in particular. I actually think that arm problem held him back a lot more than people really talked about, when he first put that brace on he looked extremely hesitant and as that began to get better so did his play.

The problem really is the 'every-down' LB problem, and also, even in the bad years drafting for D, we've always done well at getting LB's to perform early. What will be telling is, if Demeco is healthier at the start of next season (which he should be) will the scheme suddenly change and he doesn't have a LB come down into his position in Nickle & Dime

Then there is always that nagging doubt in the back of my mind, Cloak said that players coming back from his injury almost always give their best performance in the first year back, and then go on a decline until they find themselves out of the league.

Demeco is the heart and soul, Cushing is the best player, and moving into his fourth season will surely be getting to the stage where his leadership is developing to a point where he may be able to take over that role.

I give Demeco another year, I see how he copes, is he going to be, long term, the player we're playing for, or does his contract no longer reflect his play?

Its harsh, but its the way the NFL works, you can't hang around waiting on guys in the salary cap era, you can't pay guys on the basis that they played above a rookie contract for years. Thats the way it works.
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Old 02-17-2012   #29
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Default Re: Demeco's contract and Mario Williams...

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Originally Posted by DexmanC View Post
You guys see the defense when Demeco was gone? Energy without direction,
and your defense becomes a sieve. He's definitely the brains on the field,
and every good d-coordinator has at least ONE of those guys. Didn't you see
him run the alignments when Atlanta tried to no-huddle? It's the small things
that pay off big in this game.
This.

Ryan's is the leader of this team.

Cushing is a firebrand but you need to control that and direct it, hence Ryan's.
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Old 02-17-2012   #30
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Default Re: Demeco's contract and Mario Williams...

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
Brian Urlacher came out in the same game conditions....he went to the Pro Bowl. People latch on to this tidbit way too much. DeMeco looked like his old self late in the year. Ryans would be a big, big loss for this team. Look back two years ago when we lost him....the team wasn't even competitive defensively the rest of the way. We had a decent record till Ryans went down....look at the record once he was injured. We didn't win many games after that.
And here I thought we didn't win many games after that because we didn't have a decent defensive coordinator. Shows how much I know.
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Old 02-17-2012   #31
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Default Re: Demeco's contract and Mario Williams...

This is what makes or breaks "on the cusp" teams, IMO...the decisions about who you keep and who you let go.

Keep the right guys and let go of the downward-trending players, and you stay within the cap and your team can grow. Keep the wrong guys and let go of the upward-trending guys, and the cap will limit you until you can get rid of those salaries of players you shouldn't have kept for an extra few seasons.

This is where a GM, an owner, and a head coach take an "on the cusp" team and make it great...or they botch it and it's back to being mediocre again.

I do not envy the decisions those three guys are going to make. You've got a draft coming up, but who knows that you will hit on a JJ Watt and Brooks Reed and TJ Yates again??? What if you get the next Amobi Okoye or the next Travis Johnson or the next Wali Lundy? Oops...you better hope you made the right calls in free agency. Or else.

The OP said we should try to take emotions out of it. But damn if it isn't hard to do that! You don't want to see any of 'em go. DeMeco is a Ray Lewis type presence, to an extent. He calms those storms for the guys around him, he is very smart about what he's seeing pre-snap, and he's tough as nails. Now, what you "pay" that type of guy...I am not sure...but it's hard to let that guy sail away when you look at him, historically, as a Texans LB and what he's meant here.
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Old 02-17-2012   #32
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Default Re: Demeco's contract and Mario Williams...

i like meco, but run stuffing ilbs, you can find alot easier between FA & the NFL draft. I think a guy like london fletcher..as old as he is, could do just as well as meco. how much he makes i don't know.
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Old 02-17-2012   #33
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Default Re: Demeco's contract and Mario Williams...

If you cut Demeco to keep Mario what type of message are you sending to the team. Are you serious! Demeco has been the heart and soul of his defense. Mario has never even been close to the heart and soul in fact I may go as far as to say he has been a negative influence in regards to giving it his all. Mario is the country club attitude that was referred to in one of the articles describing how the defense has changed. I don't want the other players on the D to take on Mario's attitude. You are saying because Demeco was injured and the defense has changed cut him to keep a player that has been injured the last 2 years. C'mon Man.
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Old 02-17-2012   #34
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Default Re: Demeco's contract and Mario Williams...

I think McNair would love to hang AJ's, Demeco, and Mario's jerseys in the stadium eventually. Aaron Glenn would get an honorable mention if that exists.
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Old 02-17-2012   #35
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Default Re: Demeco's contract and Mario Williams...

This was a major topic on another site I frequent.

Ryans position is MUCH easier to replace if we had to. He IS making too much based on his ability this past season (he can get better but that is an uncertainty). Doesn't matter if he EarnED his contract, its a what have you done for me lately league and he simply is not worth that much RIGHT NOW.

Mario on the other hand was basically replaced this season (he would get his old job, but the point is we did fine without him). He will command a MASSIVE contract and it could POTENTIALLY affect our ability to sign guys down the road and upcoming this off-season. But his position is of GREAT importance and you can never have too many pass rushers.

This will be the toughest choice to date IMO, because Ryans is in the driver seat. He doesn't have to re-structure, and if he were to be cut our locker room would be very mad at the front office would affect the atmosphere and the ability to trust Rick Smith. I honestly think they are going to have to either sign Mario for cheap with what we got or let him walk. Im all for letting him go, but I really wish we would try to tag and trade him, even if it will be hard to do, we REALLY should try because letting him go for nothing would be foolish.

Looks like Smith will FINALLY earn his money.....
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Old 02-17-2012   #36
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Default Re: Demeco's contract and Mario Williams...

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Originally Posted by amazing80 View Post
This was a major topic on another site I frequent.

Ryans position is MUCH easier to replace if we had to. He IS making too much based on his ability this past season (he can get better but that is an uncertainty). Doesn't matter if he EarnED his contract, its a what have you done for me lately league and he simply is not worth that much RIGHT NOW.

Mario on the other hand was basically replaced this season (he would get his old job, but the point is we did fine without him). He will command a MASSIVE contract and it could POTENTIALLY affect our ability to sign guys down the road and upcoming this off-season. But his position is of GREAT importance and you can never have too many pass rushers.

This will be the toughest choice to date IMO, because Ryans is in the driver seat. He doesn't have to re-structure, and if he were to be cut our locker room would be very mad at the front office would affect the atmosphere and the ability to trust Rick Smith. I honestly think they are going to have to either sign Mario for cheap with what we got or let him walk. Im all for letting him go, but I really wish we would try to tag and trade him, even if it will be hard to do, we REALLY should try because letting him go for nothing would be foolish.

Looks like Smith will FINALLY earn his money.....
Mario not signing for cheap and I don't blame him for not doing so. If Smith can get a tag and trade then he is the man. I stated back in 4/2011 that I wanted to trade Mario then because I agree getting NOTHING for him really hurts the team and I felt that if he wasn't traded then we would get nothing for Mario no matter what happened during the year.

Last edited by gafftop; 02-17-2012 at 04:17 PM. Reason: sp
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Old 02-17-2012   #37
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Default Re: Demeco's contract and Mario Williams...

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
I get what you are saying...


Does his deal in anyway hinder the team moving forward though? Is this a heart decision or a brain decision on your part?
The answer to the bold is yes.

Ive said in multiple threads that I think Ryans contract has to be reworked. He will have a cap number of around $8.5m. for the coming season.

There are a few others who could get reworked as well - #80 , OD and Winston among them as well as possibly Antonio Smith and Schaub in some sort of extension(s).

Couple that with J.Jones and Leinart (possibly others) being cap casualty cuts ....
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Old 02-17-2012   #38
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Default Re: Demeco's contract and Mario Williams...

Quote:
Originally Posted by amazing80 View Post
This was a major topic on another site I frequent.

Ryans position is MUCH easier to replace if we had to. He IS making too much based on his ability this past season (he can get better but that is an uncertainty). Doesn't matter if he EarnED his contract, its a what have you done for me lately league and he simply is not worth that much RIGHT NOW.

Mario on the other hand was basically replaced this season (he would get his old job, but the point is we did fine without him). He will command a MASSIVE contract and it could POTENTIALLY affect our ability to sign guys down the road and upcoming this off-season. But his position is of GREAT importance and you can never have too many pass rushers.

This will be the toughest choice to date IMO, because Ryans is in the driver seat. He doesn't have to re-structure, and if he were to be cut our locker room would be very mad at the front office would affect the atmosphere and the ability to trust Rick Smith. I honestly think they are going to have to either sign Mario for cheap with what we got or let him walk. Im all for letting him go, but I really wish we would try to tag and trade him, even if it will be hard to do, we REALLY should try because letting him go for nothing would be foolish.

Looks like Smith will FINALLY earn his money.....
MSR! I mostly agree with this, but am 100% against trying to tag and trade Mario. It would take a blood oath and hostages from the other team to get me to do this. Way too much liability if the other team reneges.
As far as Ryans, I would definitely explore restructuring his deal, but there's no way I would cut him. To repeat a lot of other posts, he really came on at the end of the season and he is the unquestioned heart and soul of the defense. If Cush has a 2012 like 2011, that may well change, but I wouldn;t want to mess with the chemistry this team has. If Mario leaves, it will be understood in the locker room. If Ryans goes, it will be understood also, but in a much different light.
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Old 02-17-2012   #39
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Default Re: Demeco's contract and Mario Williams...

Meco was owed money like foster for outperforming his rookie contract, has mario outperformed his?
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Old 02-17-2012   #40
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Default Re: Demeco's contract and Mario Williams...

I would not do that, and it will not happen as a 1 for 1. The question is, who gets released and restructured to invest in Mario, Foster, Myers and Brisiel.

Demeco's value to the ascension of the defense showed last year. We all knew, since the first season, that this guy would be the glue of a championship team somewhere down the line. I have questioned his speed at times, before the injury and many times after, but the value he provides to the defense, at this juncture in the Texans' northeast track, is priceless.
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