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Old 02-21-2012   #361
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Default Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

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Originally Posted by GP View Post

Two HUGE factors going on with the 16 ppg stat.

1. Yates is obviously not Hall of Fame material right now. Duh. Let's keep it in proper perspective about where he was then, and where he can be in 2012. A lot of this can be washed away if Yates is given more time with the 1's as I state over and over. You can't just enter an NFL game and rattle off 27 ppg and win every game including the Super Bowl as a rookie in the NFL who didn't even get into the starter's role until 3/4ths of the season had been played already. It doesn't happen. Looking at all that he was up against, he wasn't as bad as his 16 ppg is made out to be.

I hope yates does get better but his 16 ppg were big reason for our losses with him starting




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2. After the AFC South clinching win vs. Bengals on the road, the team as a whole looked like hammered dog crap. Lackluster vs. Indy (with help from the refs, btw). Lackluster vs. Carolina. Pulled starters vs. Titans and Yates wasn't even in that game past the second or 3rd possession of the 1st quarter, IIRC.
Lackluster is a pretty good adj for the given situation


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I can't grade Yates fairly just because he flopped in the Ravens playoff game. I think some people are so disappointed in the outcome of that game that they are soured on Yates. I haven't said anything to the degree of him being the next best thing and a sure-fire HOF'er. I have said that based on what we went through, and what we're up against with Schaub coming back from an injury that has historically not seen a successful comeback by other NFL players who had this severity of LisFranc injury, that Yates has the potential to use a full off-season, a full camp, and all of it as QB1 which means he gets reps. And reps are needed, with the 1's, to see what we got in Yates.

I don't think the Yates we saw in the loss to Balt is the real Yates. I think it was a bad day that he was going to have. Had he played like a monster vs. Ravens, and we had won, he might have had that bad day vs. Patriots in the AFC Championship game. You just never know. I happen to think it will benefit him MORE in the long run to have had that bad day THIS year so that he has motivation and clarity on what is expected and required to go all the way in 2012. Sometimes a setback like his is what a guy needs to make a leap. That's all I'm saying.


Yates played very rookie like in more than just the ravens game and thats to be expected really because he was one after all.
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Old 02-21-2012   #362
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Default Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

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I think it's extremely valid. With a rookie QB you need to play with a lead (because he will throw picks). JJ singlehandedly spotted the Ravens a 7-0 lead after the defense went out and did their job on the opening series.
The lead was not 7-0 and being down 4 points after 5 mins shoudnt stop you from winning. Our defense gave us every chance to win, Yates just couldnt pull it off
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Old 02-21-2012   #363
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Default Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

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I think it's extremely valid. With a rookie QB you need to play with a lead (because he will throw picks). JJ singlehandedly spotted the Ravens a 7-0 lead after the defense went out and did their job on the opening series.
Don't get me wrong, it was a huge play in the game, no doubt.

My point is Schaub could've easily overcome the boneheaded play of JJ, especially the way our D was playing. Schaub has his token 'Jacoby' type play every now and then, but does anyone think he would've thrown that ball to AJ with 4 defenders? Or throw to Walter in double, almost triple coverage? Or throw deep to a double covered AJ on 1st down with 2 min to go? I don't
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Old 02-21-2012   #364
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Default Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

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Don't get me wrong, it was a huge play in the game, no doubt.

My point is Schaub could've easily overcome the boneheaded play of JJ, especially the way our D was playing. Schaub has his token 'Jacoby' type play every now and then, but does anyone think he would've thrown that ball to AJ with 4 defenders? Or throw to Walter in double, almost triple coverage? Or throw deep to a double covered AJ on 1st down with 2 min to go? I don't
Oh, I gotcha!! No doubt. That mistake wouldn't have been nearly as detrimental with Schaub under center.
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Old 02-21-2012   #365
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Default Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

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Oh, I gotcha!! No doubt. That mistake wouldn't have been nearly as detrimental with Schaub under center.
I probably wasn't very clear in what I was trying to say. My mind has been going every which way but loose lately.
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Old 02-21-2012   #366
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Default Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

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I probably wasn't very clear in what I was trying to say. My mind has been going every which way but loose lately.
It gets worse, my friend. It gets worse.
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Old 02-21-2012   #367
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Default Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

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True or false?

The Texans would've beaten the Ravens with Schaub?
It's pure speculation, but my gut feeling is that we would have been in the AFC Championship game with Schaub. And seeing how the Patriots played, it's quite possible the Super Bowl.

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Old 02-21-2012   #368
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Default Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

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It's pure speculation, but my gut feeling is that we would have been in the AFC Championship game with Schaub. And seeing how the Patriots played, it's quite possible the Super Bowl.

My thoughts exactly in a shorter and to the point post.
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Old 02-21-2012   #369
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Default Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

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It's pure speculation, but my gut feeling is that we would have been in the AFC Championship game with Schaub. And seeing how the Patriots played, it's quite possible the Super Bowl.

completely plausible.


So now, we go into another season hoping (praying for those that do) that Schaub can stay relatively healthy...... that our key (core) players stay relatively healthy.

However, if that doesn't happen, have you seen enough of Tj Yates to believe he will/will not finish what Schaub started if the opportunity repeats itself?
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Old 02-21-2012   #370
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Default Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

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It's pure speculation, but my gut feeling is that we would have been in the AFC Championship game with Schaub. And seeing how the Patriots played, it's quite possible the Super Bowl.

Yup. Super Bowl, imo.
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Old 02-22-2012   #371
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Default Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
completely plausible.


So now, we go into another season hoping (praying for those that do) that Schaub can stay relatively healthy...... that our key (core) players stay relatively healthy.

However, if that doesn't happen, have you seen enough of Tj Yates to believe he will/will not finish what Schaub started if the opportunity repeats itself?
Thats a real good question ....

We have to consider that there was no training camp , OTA's or interaction otherwise between the coaches and players prior to ~two weeks before game one.

Given the above preperation time , one would expect a better performance from Yates.

Still , the learning curve for an NFL QB is steep .... I dont think Yates has come close to the peak of that curve. He's going to improve. Question is , how much and is it enough ?! At this juncture , I just dont know .... possible he could get the job doneif other things fell into place.

Post #21,000 (get a life)
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Old 02-22-2012   #372
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Default Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

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Schaub "organized" these workouts several weeks after Brees and Eli were getting national recognition for getting their teams together. Doesnt impress me.
Ummm... where's YOUR link that proves your timeline?? As I recall, Brees was the Saints rep to the negotiations so when did he have time to organize team workouts?
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Old 02-22-2012   #373
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Default Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

I think we may be wearing rose-tinted spectacles when we're thinking about how Schaub would have managed that Ravens game.

Schaub is undoubtedly the better QB (pre-lisfranc anyway), but don't forget that while Schaub likely wouldn't have thrown those INT's, he would quite likely have held on to the ball and our passing game may well have gone totally cold instead.

Thats what Schaub has shown me under pressure sometimes, so to say carte-blanche that Schaub would have won that game is a stretch.
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Old 02-22-2012   #374
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Default Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

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I think we may be wearing rose-tinted spectacles when we're thinking about how Schaub would have managed that Ravens game.

Schaub is undoubtedly the better QB (pre-lisfranc anyway), but don't forget that while Schaub likely wouldn't have thrown those INT's, he would quite likely have held on to the ball and our passing game may well have gone totally cold instead.

Thats what Schaub has shown me under pressure sometimes, so to say carte-blanche that Schaub would have won that game is a stretch.


Schaub would have held on to the ball too long? Maybe that would cut down on the ints but Im certain Schaub was posting points a lot easier than Yates and its not like Yates did a lot better avoiding the sacks
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Old 02-22-2012   #375
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Default Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

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Schaub would have held on to the ball too long? Maybe that would cut down on the ints but Im certain Schaub was posting points a lot easier than Yates and its not like Yates did a lot better avoiding the sacks
Yates was sacked 2 times in two play off games, and 0 of those was against the Ravens.

I'm not sold that Schaub alone gets it done for us either. I like our chances a lot better but I don't think it would have been a sure thing.

The first time we played Baltimore with Matt (granted, No Andre) we only put up 14 points.

Last edited by Rey; 02-22-2012 at 09:58 AM.
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Old 02-22-2012   #376
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Default Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

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Yates was sacked 2 times in two play off games, and 0 of those was against the Ravens.

I'm not sold that Schaub alone gets it done for us either. I like our chances a lot better but I don't think it would have been a sure thing.

this last season
Schaub was sacked 16 times in 10 games
Yates was sacked 17 times in 7.5 games
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Old 02-22-2012   #377
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Default Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

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However, if that doesn't happen, have you seen enough of Tj Yates to believe he will/will not finish what Schaub started if the opportunity repeats itself?
I know your question was aimed at DB, but I'll take a swing at it too.

It doesn't matter if we've seen enough of Yates, or not, to make a decision. That's what people are failing to understand. We have limited choices right now:

1. Sign a FA guy to compete in camp, to challenge Yates or be a replacement for Schaub if he can't return for a myriad of reasons.

2. Draft another QB, somewhere in some round of the draft, and have HIM compete with Yates and/or the FA QB we signed to compete with Schaub/Yates.

3. Name Yates the starter, by default, and roll with it through OTAs, camp, preseason, reg season opening games...biding time for Schaub to fully return and using Yates as a fallback option if Schaub can't return or stay on the field.

None of these scenarios involve Matt Schaub being the Day 1 QB1 when reg season begins because it's virtually impossible for him to have gained back all that he lost during post-op "rest period" AND be a QB1 right out of the gate by September. If he is, and if he remains and is frolicking around out on the field and winning games right and left all season long then he should be cloned because it means he's not a mortal man like Ty Law, Warrick Dunn, Glen Earl, Duce Staley, etc.

This means you got three options (listed above).

I think we'll add a camp arm or two or three, for sure. But I expect Kubiak to be loyal (as he always is) to the one he brought to the dance. He can't be loyal to Schaub, yet, due to circumstances, but he can be loyal to Yates. It's what has made the Texans the resilient team that they were in 2011--Because they all know that Kubiak has your back and he won't toss you to the trash can if you have a bad day or week or hell, even a bad season.

Nobody knows what we have in Yates, though the Ravens playoff game is being used by some as the ultimate proof of what we have in Yates. What makes 2012 so interesting, already, is that we DO get to see what Yates has or what Kubiak has planned if Yates isn't the QB1 after all.

If we sign all our guys back, with Foster being the chief weapon on offense we must re-sign, then whomever is QB is going to be the key decision for this team. Everything else runs like clockwork, but the QB decision will be paramount to the rest of the offense being able to function as its designed by Kubiak and Dennison.

I am not a Yates homer, but I think Kubiak rolls with him right out of the gate and adds camp arms to supplement Yates as insurance against Yates cratering early on or getting hurt. Leinart should not be on this roster, btw. I know you disagree, but the guy is hot garbage and it's time to cut him loose. The Jax game was all the proof I need to make that analysis, and Yates came in like a fireball and led the team VERTICALLY down the field before Kubiak handcuffed him (for good reason).
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Old 02-22-2012   #378
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Default Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

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this last season
Schaub was sacked 16 times in 10 games
Yates was sacked 17 times in 7.5 games
I was responding about the Baltimore game (which is where this conversation originated) and our match up with them. Schaub took 4 sacks against them earlier in the year and Yates took 0 against them in the play-offs.
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Old 02-22-2012   #379
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Default Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

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However, if that doesn't happen, have you seen enough of Tj Yates to believe he will/will not finish what Schaub started if the opportunity repeats itself?
I think Yates will develop into a solid starter...

If you look at Yates and Schaub's rookie years in comparison I think Yates had the better year. I don't remember what the Falcons situation was at that time, but Schaub wasn't all that...

As a rookie I thought Yates did a decent job. I expect him to get better in the years up coming...

They say the biggest jump for most players is year 1 to year 2, so it will be interesting to see Yates perform in the pre-season. IMO, we have two guys capable of starting and winning games.
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Old 02-22-2012   #380
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Default Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

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I was responding about the Baltimore game (which is where this conversation originated) and our match up with them. Schaub took 4 sacks against them earlier in the year and Yates took 0 against them in the play-offs.
Well if you look at the post I had quoted it talks about Schaub's ability under pressure not just a single game.
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