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Old 02-05-2012   #41
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
I expect mario tobe back & with a savings of $7m to 10m depending on his actual cap hit that no one knows. That would allow an ANdre Johnson type contract for Bowe with a nice bonus upfront to entice him. Then you have your #2 WR & a future replacement for the HOF. I'd then hope that Peter Konz falls to #26 and select Zeitler in round 2.
too much to drink, eh?
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Old 02-05-2012   #42
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
I expect mario tobe back & with a savings of $7m to 10m depending on his actual cap hit that no one knows. That would allow an ANdre Johnson type contract for Bowe with a nice bonus upfront to entice him. Then you have your #2 WR & a future replacement for the HOF. I'd then hope that Peter Konz falls to #26 and select Zeitler in round 2.
Is KC in some kind of cap-hell?

Really, do we think Bowe is going to leave?

They are were we were last year, probably better. 10-6 & a play-off berth in 2010. They're young & talented & now they got a coach.
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Old 02-05-2012   #43
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

The Saints being my second favorite team, since I was a kid, I follow the Saints a lot (of course, Houston teams being my faves, bar none).

The thing people are missing about Robert Meachem is two-fold.

#1.) Yes, he would be considerable upgrade over Jacoby Jones as a legit #2. The Saints have been blessed with a lot of great WRs, so Meachem gets lost in the wash a little bit. I'm with Dale, he's a #2 on most teams.

#2.) Chances are, the Saints are going to keep him, not only because they have a lot of cap room (with or without the new TV revenue), but also they'll let Devery Henderson ride out the rest of his contract, and keep the more productive Robert Meachum, due to age, etc.

I would love for the Texans to get Robert Meachem, plus at least a 2nd round rookie, and with Lestar Jean being healthy and KW, our WR corps suddenly looks deadly (for the first time).

But I don't think that's going to happen with Meachem, for the above reasons.

If the Texans really do decided to make a big splash at WR in the free-agent market, then the sexiest choice for the money and circumstances would be Mario Manningham as a legit #2.

Not only do the Giants have little cap space to play with - much like us - but also, with Victor Cruz coming on like he has, the Giants will be more likely to let Manningham walk, as opposed to the Saints and Meachem.

Otherwise, the Texans are looking at an older stop-gap WR like Reggie Wayne, until they can get some kid to really catch fire. Remember, we want to make a bid at the big show now! And our best chance would look something like this:

Andre Johnson, Mario Manningham, Kevin Walter, Rookie/Lestar Jean.

In the above state, they can cultivate a nice WR stable, while aiming high for the next season.
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Old 02-05-2012   #44
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

If the Patriots managed to get a 1st rd pick for Richard Seymour, the Texans ought to get the same value for Mario. Seymour was at same stage when Pats craftily moved on from that guy, although a player like Seymour could have made the difference today. Either way, the Patriots are an example of a team that makes tough choices to keep the team from getting stagnant. I wouldn't stop at Mario. The Stephanie Stradley poster idea is spot on. We need a superstar QB not just a guy.
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Old 02-05-2012   #45
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

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Originally Posted by EVOLVIST View Post
The Saints being my second favorite team, since I was a kid, I follow the Saints a lot (of course, Houston teams being my faves, bar none).

The thing people are missing about Robert Meachem is two-fold.

#1.) Yes, he would be considerable upgrade over Jacoby Jones as a legit #2. The Saints have been blessed with a lot of great WRs, so Meachem gets lost in the wash a little bit. I'm with Dale, he's a #2 on most teams.

#2.) Chances are, the Saints are going to keep him, not only because they have a lot of cap room (with or without the new TV revenue), but also they'll let Devery Henderson ride out the rest of his contract, and keep the more productive Robert Meachum, due to age, etc.

I would love for the Texans to get Robert Meachem, plus at least a 2nd round rookie, and with Lestar Jean being healthy and KW, our WR corps suddenly looks deadly (for the first time).

But I don't think that's going to happen with Meachem, for the above reasons.

If the Texans really do decided to make a big splash at WR in the free-agent market, then the sexiest choice for the money and circumstances would be Mario Manningham as a legit #2.

Not only do the Giants have little cap space to play with - much like us - but also, with Victor Cruz coming on like he has, the Giants will be more likely to let Manningham walk, as opposed to the Saints and Meachem.

Otherwise, the Texans are looking at an older stop-gap WR like Reggie Wayne, until they can get some kid to really catch fire. Remember, we want to make a bid at the big show now! And our best chance would look something like this:

Andre Johnson, Mario Manningham, Kevin Walter, Rookie/Lestar Jean.

In the above state, they can cultivate a nice WR stable, while aiming high for the next season.

Well, they better have a ton of money, because the following Saints are unrestricted free agents:

Drew Brees
M. Colston
Carl Nicks
Tracey Porter
Aubrayo Franklin
Robert Meachem

and about one dozen others. That's a lot for them to get done this off-season. Considering Meachem has yet to consistently start for them, I can't imagine he would be a higher priority for them than Colston. Clearly, the Saints will be determined to get Brees and Nicks deals done. And, they will either sign Porter to a large deal or they will need to grab another free agent corner back.
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Old 02-06-2012   #46
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

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Originally Posted by WolverineFan View Post
Those of you that expect us to let Mario walk and use the extra money to sign 1 or 2 top FA's will be very disappointed. We are already over the cap so letting Mario walk will allow us to re-sign our FA's and give Foster a new deal. Restructure a few contracts and we will be able to sign a vet or two in FA and then sign our draft picks.

We aren't going to be landing guys like Nicks or Jackson.


For how much this topic has been discussed in this very section of this board, it's kind of pathetic that people say stuff like this without sourcing it.
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Old 02-06-2012   #47
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

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"IF" Mario walks then...

Plan A will not happen regardless if the Saints sign him or not. He is ideal for a downhill running team not a zone blocking team like the Texans. There's no point in investing around $8 million for a high profile OG, unless we plan on changing systems.

He is ideal for any scheme. If Charles Spencer is draftable for this scheme Nicks definatly could fit.

Plan B I think Cody did a nice job. He made around $12 million, which is the price for a top NT. He would be no cheaper than Mario. If they are interested in a larger NT they will address it in the draft.

Cody did do a nice job. I don't want nice for our defense. I want bad asses and that is exactly what Soliai is. Put him in the middle and everyone on the front seven gets multiple one on one opportunities every game. "IF" Mario did leave this could be the player and position that could make the biggest difference for this team. Even more so than WR. He really should be plan A.
Of course he could franchised but until he is he's fair discussion. Oh and if we CAN afford Mario at that price and he goes elsewhere anyway, why not give the money to someone that can make just as big an impact? Maybe bigger!


Plan C He is young. He is 6-8 300 freakish size and very disruptive and perfect as a 3-4 DE. Has been very productive over the past to year. Younger Mario Williams? I don't think so. He is 25. Mario is 26. Not much age difference. He is primarily a 3-4 DE. Mario played 3-4 OLB, begin his career as a 4-3 DE, and I believe Wade had plans on using him as a 3-4 DE to share the field with Barwin and Reed. So I think Williams is a more versatile player. Nevertheless, I don't think the Cardinals will let someone as talented as Campbell walk. Plus we have JJ Watt and Antonio Smith both have had solid seasons and both demand the occasional double team which frees up our edge rushers. So I think we're fine in that category (especially "IF" we resign Williams).

Agree but if Mario "doesn't" resign, Smith is 30 and commanding a rather large salary nest season if I heard right.

Plan D Wouldn't that be nice...too bad it's not happening. If we go after a FA WR it should be after a lesser name like Pierre Garcon, Robert Meachem, or my favorite Laurent Robinson. Otherwise, we will most likely address WR in the draft.

You never know!

Plan E I think we're fine with Antonio and JJ.

I think you need to reed plan E again.

"IF" Mario walks, then we will most likely try to address depth in the draft instead of FA. But we would be deep WITH Mario, so I hope we can sign him to a long term deal.
Every year we add a little depth in FA. Last year we went after needs. Now that we are really actually close who knows what will do. I can tell you one thing, the Texans brass doesn't care what we all think they should do. Every year there are surprises. So don't be surprised when something you think is absolutely going to happen doesn't. Something like we draft another DE in the first round indtead of a WR, even though the one everyone wants is there for the taking.
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Old 02-06-2012   #48
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

how about plan Manning


Getting Peyton manning and Reggie Wayne and keeping Andre johnson
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Old 02-06-2012   #49
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

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For how much this topic has been discussed in this very section of this board, it's kind of pathetic that people say stuff like this without sourcing it.
It's been sourced several times that the Texans are right up against the cap. Does it have to be sourced every time it's mentioned?
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Old 02-06-2012   #50
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

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Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
For how much this topic has been discussed in this very section of this board, it's kind of pathetic that people say stuff like this without sourcing it.
Add to that people posting OLB tag figures and claiming they should franchise him
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Old 02-06-2012   #51
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The OLB tag numbers provide guidance to an OLB contract, given the transition from DE to OLB.
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Old 02-06-2012   #52
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

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It's been sourced several times that the Texans are right up against the cap. Does it have to be sourced every time it's mentioned?
That couldn't be further from the truth. Honestly, do you or anyone else think we are right up against the cap given that we have tons of money coming off the books? There is simply no way that could be the case unless the Texans were 30+ million over the cap this year. It's pure unadulterated bull****.

The last time I heard we were OVER the cap was August of 2011. Nobody has said anything like that since then, and anyone paying attention would know that's not the case. TexansChick interviewed Andrew Brandt last week and he said the Texans were about 5 million under the 120 mill cap, less any money coming off the books. That's not even taking into account money that may be created by an increased cap. We simply are not over the cap as the other guy said.

So yes, in the spirit of getting things right, not starting unfounded rumors and spreading even more BS than is already out there, when someone makes a statement that flies in the face of everything we have heard over the last 2 months, I would like them to cite their source. If it turns out to be their backside, then we can squash the rumor.
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Old 02-06-2012   #53
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

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That couldn't be further from the truth.
I think we could have stopped right there.

It has been speculated where the Texans are capwise, but never sourced. No one really knows.
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Old 02-06-2012   #54
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

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I think we could have stopped right there.

It has been speculated where the Texans are capwise, but never sourced. No one really knows.
Which is what I've said from the begging.

Which is also the reason I have stayed out of these threads.
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Old 02-06-2012   #55
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

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Well, they better have a ton of money, because the following Saints are unrestricted free agents:

And, they will either sign Porter to a large deal or they will need to grab another free agent corner back.
first, the cap is going to be an issue. Brees, Colston, and Nicks - if they all come back, are going to cost money. We aren't up against the cap and there is room to make on the roster for more and Loomis has done a really good job of making contracts. If Brees signs before FA starts, I'm guessing the Saints tag Nicks - signing him to a longterm deal will cost money. He's asking for more than Evans money - which is reasonable, imo. Colston will not be cheap. And we will likely be re-negotiating with Graham on the near horizon.

As for the second part, re: Porter. I'm not so sure. He's our 3rd best CB and has been injury prone. He's a local guy and Super Bowl hero, and I think he'll get a bigger contract from a team needing a CB more than the Saints. The Saints are going to go with Greer and Robinson as their top 2. And they really liked the play of rookie Johnny Patrick in limited action. So I don't anticipate a "large contract" for Porter

Porter would be an upgrade for a lot of teams, but if he's looking for #2 CB money, I really don't see him getting it with the Saints. I think another team will pay more - but we'll see how much his injury history hurts him.
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Old 02-06-2012   #56
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

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"If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?
Then we move on just like any of the other good teams in the league. Good teams have to allow good players to leave every now and then.

I would very much like Mario to stay. But if he's too rich for us then we have to let him walk.
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Old 02-06-2012   #57
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

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I think we could have stopped right there.

It has been speculated where the Texans are capwise, but never sourced. No one really knows.
It's simply impossible for the Texans to be OVER the cap at this point or even very close to the cap. We have 15+ million coming off the books for Mario alone, and more from other free agents and expiring contracts. The Texans should have at least 25 million to work with this offseason.
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Old 02-06-2012   #58
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

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i say we use the money from mario to either A) get another good WR to put on the field with AJ or B) Find a good #2 CB, yes i think KJ had a good year but i think he looked good because our front 7 was good.
Any cornerback is going to look good if the front 7 was good.

Like T-Rock always says on Sirius NFL Radio ....

"You show me a Pro-Bowl caliber DB, I'll show you you a Pro-Bowl caliber DL that plays in front of him. "
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Old 02-06-2012   #59
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

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It's simply impossible for the Texans to be OVER the cap at this point or even very close to the cap. We have 15+ million coming off the books for Mario alone, and more from other free agents and expiring contracts. The Texans should have at least 25 million to work with this offseason.
I'm with you, I agree with your assumption.

I'm saying your statement is correct. It has not been documented/sourced that the Texans won't have cap-room to sign their FAs, definitely not anything that says:
Quote:
Originally Posted by WolverineFan View Post
We are already over the cap so letting Mario walk will allow us to re-sign our FA's and give Foster a new deal.
It has never been verified that this is a "Mario or <player X>" situation.
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Old 02-06-2012   #60
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Default Re: "If" Mario leaves for greener pastures, then what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
Any cornerback is going to look good if the front 7 was good.

Like T-Rock always says on Sirius NFL Radio ....

"You show me a Pro-Bowl caliber DB, I'll show you you a Pro-Bowl caliber DL that plays in front of him. "
I think people underplay the symbiotic relationship here.

Yes a good pass rush = good pass defense.

but at the same time,

good pass defense = good pass rush.

You gotta have both. & Kjac is good enough to help our front seven get that extra second. The pass rush is good enough that Kjac doesn't have to cover for "too long"
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